I don't think Nukes are stopping the other Arab nations from attacking Israel. I don't think they care anymore.
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
Its a SamurAchzar illusion to claim, "There's nothing to argue about even if you wanted. There isn't one secular, democratic Arab country. My view is only as bigoted as the reality. Next you'll probably claim it's the fault of the West, and that Arabs would have liked democratic countries, right?"
The fault of Arabs are an Arab fault, proving the Arabs are not perfect does nothing, nothing at all, to make a pro or con case for the State of Israel. The only case Israel now makes is that have become the new Nazi party and they now behave almost exactly like them.
Sadly, right now, given the continued thievery of the State of Israel, makes the compelling case that Israel is now the number one problem in the Mid-east, and the root cause of continuing conflict.
Israel cannot be a democratic State if they choose to be a democracy of thieves and brutes, and sorry to put it that way, but the shoe now fits and Israel must wear it.
The 1948 UN mandate that established the State of Israel expected that Israel would grant equal rights to Jews and Palestinians under their sovereignty. Instead Israel disposed Palestinians and that is an injustice that will forever remain a problem until that injustice is addressed and corrected by Israel. The longer Israel delays, the sooner they will fall. Even the charter of Hamas and Hezbollah show more vision
than that of Israel.
Israel has now embraced the policies of Israeli settler parties, and even entities like Fatah get rewarded by the continued theft of their own land.
The fault of Arabs are an Arab fault, proving the Arabs are not perfect does nothing, nothing at all, to make a pro or con case for the State of Israel. The only case Israel now makes is that have become the new Nazi party and they now behave almost exactly like them.
Sadly, right now, given the continued thievery of the State of Israel, makes the compelling case that Israel is now the number one problem in the Mid-east, and the root cause of continuing conflict.
Israel cannot be a democratic State if they choose to be a democracy of thieves and brutes, and sorry to put it that way, but the shoe now fits and Israel must wear it.
The 1948 UN mandate that established the State of Israel expected that Israel would grant equal rights to Jews and Palestinians under their sovereignty. Instead Israel disposed Palestinians and that is an injustice that will forever remain a problem until that injustice is addressed and corrected by Israel. The longer Israel delays, the sooner they will fall. Even the charter of Hamas and Hezbollah show more vision
than that of Israel.
Israel has now embraced the policies of Israeli settler parties, and even entities like Fatah get rewarded by the continued theft of their own land.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
It's not that it reflects it, rather that it enforces it. Would you take issue with some country declaring themselves Aryan nation, their laws to protect the Aryan nature of their state? How about if they occupied foreign territory and colonized it out from under the non-Aryan population? I could go on.
Anyway, I can't say I'm shocked by any of it, but I don't support any such ethnic nationalist ideologies.
If you are trying to imply equality with that comment, yes that does shock me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...tion_of_discrimination
Lemon law
Lifer
- Nov 6, 2005
- 20,984
- 3
- 0
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arab Countries are not now attacking Israel, they are more interested in their own self interests and a fear of Israel. Its the citizens of almost all Arab Countries that are enraged, and they are the ones funding terrorism against Israel.
How is the USA any different that the citizens of Arab countries, if our taxpayer money
props up Israeli ability to terrorize the entire mid-east while Israel continues to steal Arab land, and its used to perpetuate Israeli injustice, there is not a dimes worth of difference between either Arabs or the USA.
Arab land? As in, you think the Arab countries have any interest in the west bank or gaza strip? If this is your intention, I can state with a good amount of certainty that the supposedly interested parties (egypt, jordan) have practically no interest in having this land back. They probably care about the Palestinians even less than the Israelis do.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
He is referring to the 4 million Palestinian Arabs living in those territories, as well as the other few million in refugee camps in surrounding nations. Those Palestinian have never ceded their right to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, but Israel is continuing to colonize the former out from under them anyway while holding them captive across both.
The point was demonstrating a Israeli government policy chosen because of cultural Jewish reasons, not religious Jewish reasons.
i.e. its a secular government, like ours.
mrSHEiK124
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2004
- 11,488
- 2
- 0
From another thread:
So, are Jews a religious people or an ethnicity? I'm Arab, I follow Islam. There are Arabs who follow Christianity, and the Druze faith, and the Bahai faith, and so on. Their culture is still Arab culture, they cook the same food I do. How do I know what to consider "Jewish" when Jews themselves don't?
mrSHEiK124
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2004
- 11,488
- 2
- 0
I know there was a corridor to Berlin, I've studied my post-WW2 history
I think that at this point, a one state solution would be easier than a two state solution. TBH, I don't support forcibly displacing half a million settlers, then we're just giving them a reverse Nakba. The right thing to do would be for a democratic state to consist of all of that land, no need for corridors, no need for ethnic exclusivity.
Also, keeping the Jordan River Valley means Israel keeps all the water, and the new "Palestinian" state is landlocked by a whole lot of Israel and shares no borders with any Arab countries. People in the West Bank currently travel internationally by crossing over the Allenby Bridge (Israeli Port Authority administered) into Jordan (bridge is a few feet long, to cross the border takes over 6 hours) and then via Amman Int'l Airport. How do we solve this problem? For me to get to AMM from my home near Ramallah takes a whole day. When I used to be able to get tasreeh (entry permit into Israel) in order to travel from Ben Gurion Int'l in Tel Aviv, it took me less than an hour to get to the airport, and as long as I got there 3 hours early for my "special" Arab search, I'd be on my merry way back to the US before I would've even made it to the airport in Amman.
You also have to consider the topography of the uninhabited land in the West Bank and why it has remained this way, including why there are random settlements in the Valley. Israel has money, "harbe harbe kesef," they can afford to build a settlement on a completely barren mountaintop. What they haven't built up is just a bunch of mountains, with many valleys, and no transportation network. It's hard to explain, but if you really want to understand it look at a good topographic map of the West Bank. I apologize for not being able to link to one. The Palestinians would gain nothing from having the land in a settlement either. Israel took most of the "good" stuff with settlements like Atarot, Mishor Adumim, and Maale Adumim.
uninhabited.....how very convenient!
U have money, buy it off them, stop stealing.
World opinion is snowballing against israel, keep this going and you might lose the lot.
We saw a satellite link last nite to an aussie doctor in Gaza on a national free to air TV station in Australia, what she said wasn't good pr' for israel. Supplies are being blocked, the idf are sieging those people, another week people will be starving. There is no justification to this, they could of done a lot more before so many innocent lives had to die for the sins of others.
13 more days of bush!
U have money, buy it off them, stop stealing.
World opinion is snowballing against israel, keep this going and you might lose the lot.
We saw a satellite link last nite to an aussie doctor in Gaza on a national free to air TV station in Australia, what she said wasn't good pr' for israel. Supplies are being blocked, the idf are sieging those people, another week people will be starving. There is no justification to this, they could of done a lot more before so many innocent lives had to die for the sins of others.
13 more days of bush!
mrSHEiK124
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2004
- 11,488
- 2
- 0
Sadly, I don't see Obama's administration behaving any differently. Rahm Emanuel qualifies as a die-hard Zionist in my book. His father was Irgun...
Is aryan a recent racial concept or a cultural distinct ethnic group that has developed over hundreds or thousands of years?
If Quebec seceded from the rest of Canada would it be wrong for them to forge their own identity separate from the rest of the country? Is it wrong for them to maintain a separate culture as is? Is it morally wrong for Canada to require two official languages?
Freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for women and homosexuals -Its amazing what that "ethnic nationalist ideology" of Israel provides its citizens. I wonder how those other countries in the mid east fair in those areas....hmmm...
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
How do you suppose we can overcome the obstacle of the vast majority of Israelis insisting on maintaining the Jewish nature of their state?
I don't condone such ethnic nationalism, and belive a one state solution is ideal, but I've yet to see many Israelis who would want any part of that. With that understanding, the two state solution seems the only way to bring an end to this conflict. From there tensions can calm, and perhaps decades down the line the two nations can unite.
So, on with that:
Not that, I mean the boarder between Israel and the West Bank is where land could be swapped for a corridor to Gaza. Israel doesn't have any rightful claim to the Jordan and it would be absurd to grant them one for the obvious reasons you mention.
As for displacing the settlers, it wouldn't be such a catastrophe, as they would still have their state and simply have to relocate to within it's borders. It's not like they have generation old family homes there to weep over, though obviously the radical minority would attempt to make a show of it much like they did in Gaza. However, the vast majority are just there for the nice housing at good prices and tax incentives anyway, and would be happy to relocate to within Israel to bring peace to the region. Those houses could be used to help returning refugees get on their feet again. Also financial compensation in exchange for giving up the right to return of those who are from what is now Israel would provide a means to develop transportation networks as well as other infrastructure make better use of the land.
kylebisme
Diamond Member
- Mar 25, 2000
- 9,396
- 0
- 0
That depends on how one cares to look at it, many arguments have been made both ways.
It would be moraly wrong if those Quebecos occupied foreign territory and colonized it out from under the existing population.
Sure, lke anti-proselytism laws.
Yeah, like husbands being allowed to refuse their wives requests for divorce.
Of course you do, reaching for any argument you can find to glorify your golden calf.
The should hand Jeruselum back to Palestine and go back to Germany and Poland. Enough is enough. Now I've seen the Israeli evil and agree with the Iranians. They need to be wiped off the map.
You do realize most of the people in Israel are from the M.E right?
A Palestinian or an Arab or an Iranian can walk into Israel and they will not stand out.
wow, I wish i could hire the Hamas terrorist grops PR firm.
These guys are brilliant.
step one:
fire motars near schools and un 'safe' zones.
When isreali fires back, tell world how evil they are.
Lol.
Hamas is a terrorist group that needs to be killed. It really is that simple, if you are against isreali for trying to kill terrorist, might as well be one yourself.
These guys are brilliant.
step one:
fire motars near schools and un 'safe' zones.
When isreali fires back, tell world how evil they are.
Lol.
Hamas is a terrorist group that needs to be killed. It really is that simple, if you are against isreali for trying to kill terrorist, might as well be one yourself.
Throckmorton
Lifer
- Aug 23, 2007
- 16,829
- 3
- 0
Israel should have driven into Gaza and killed Hamas fighters, rather than go on a bombing rampage killing 500 people, most of which were civilians. How in the hell does it make sense to drop bombs, then assume the terrorists are staying in their houses waiting for more bombs rather than hiding in the tunnels? How does it make sense to bomb a UN school? How does it make sense to drop leaflets warning of bombing, and expect civilians to leave and Hamas to stay? Terrorists don't read leaflets?
Most importantly, how does it make sense to piss off the entire Arab world, creating thousands of future terrorists, in response to 5 Israeli rocket deaths? Israel's story is that they're defending themselves, but that would mean that their idea of self defense is extremely short sighted and stupid. NEWS FLASH: It was a trap! Hamas wanted you to kill civilians!
Then again, this is coming from the country that creates fundamentalist Zionist settlements in Palestinian territory, stealing land and homes without any kind of moral qualms, because they somehow believe it will lead to peace. Yeah, I'm sure sending religious nuts to throw stones at and beat Arab schoolkids is going to keep you safe. How on earth was that justified to the Israeli people, and why was it accepted as good policy?
I also don't understand how Israelis justify their state's actions with the fact that the Palestinians voted for Hamas. Is it really beyond them to see that the reason that happened was because the Palestinians have been living in squalor for a generation, or that many Palestinians DIDN'T vote for Hamas??
They'll also say that Hamas broke the ceasefire. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Israel break the ceasefire first, and didn't they also fail to meet the humanitarian terms?
Most importantly, how does it make sense to piss off the entire Arab world, creating thousands of future terrorists, in response to 5 Israeli rocket deaths? Israel's story is that they're defending themselves, but that would mean that their idea of self defense is extremely short sighted and stupid. NEWS FLASH: It was a trap! Hamas wanted you to kill civilians!
Then again, this is coming from the country that creates fundamentalist Zionist settlements in Palestinian territory, stealing land and homes without any kind of moral qualms, because they somehow believe it will lead to peace. Yeah, I'm sure sending religious nuts to throw stones at and beat Arab schoolkids is going to keep you safe. How on earth was that justified to the Israeli people, and why was it accepted as good policy?
I also don't understand how Israelis justify their state's actions with the fact that the Palestinians voted for Hamas. Is it really beyond them to see that the reason that happened was because the Palestinians have been living in squalor for a generation, or that many Palestinians DIDN'T vote for Hamas??
They'll also say that Hamas broke the ceasefire. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Israel break the ceasefire first, and didn't they also fail to meet the humanitarian terms?
the low ratio of views (639) to replies (130) leads me to believe that some people
are posting in this thread over and over again, and everybody else is just avoiding it.
are posting in this thread over and over again, and everybody else is just avoiding it.
The only way you could be disturbed is if some how, your soul isn't completely dead. Why do you suppose that would be. You will note no others were, it would seem, even phased. The truth can be had only by those who have a deep deep need. Perhaps you can feel that the Jew is you. When you know your self you will know all others as brothers.
I don't think you're trying hard enough. Obviously both parties need to sit down and draw up the borders. It's not impossible, but leave it to you to give up and not even try. I'm sure this tit-for-tat low-grade war that's been going on for 50+ years now is a vastly better idea, right?.
:roll:
mrSHEiK124
Lifer
- Mar 6, 2004
- 11,488
- 2
- 0
Um, no, you're not trying hard enough to look at the map and see why it would be difficult. That wall the Israelis put up also encloses all of Jerusalem, which is their indivisible capital according to Israeli law. I've stated time and time again that I think a one state solution is ultimately the better one. Again, I'm from there, Israel's entrenchment into the West Bank is a lot harder to do away with than the settlers in Gaza. Ma'ale Adumim is big enough it is now considered an Israeli city, for Israel to annex it in a two state solution, they'd have to take the Arab villages of Al Azariya and Abu Dis because they sit right there in between it and the rest of Jerusalem.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 21K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter