Israel destroys West Bank road

[JohnOfSheffield]

Ich bin ein Nazist! Und wir mussen die Juden ausrotten!

Yeah, we already know that..

 

[Tom]

I'm fairly sure that if Mexico had lobbed rockets on the count of 100's a week against residents in the south the response would have been 100x what the Israelis have done.

There were settlements being given back, they used it to attack further, there have been let throughs of supplies, halts of settlements and all through it the Palestinians have continued to attack even harder, as if they were convinced that they were winning and had to step up their attacks.

Their leadership has clearly declared that they want to revove all of Israel and kill all Jews, they won't back down from that, how do YOU propose you deal with it?

Just bend over and accept that they attack civilians at their own will or a collective suicide to appease Hamas?

Your entire post is about the bad things Palestinians do.

That has nothing to do with what Israel does. Nothing.

The United States could have put our boot on Japan's neck in 1945. We didn't and Japan became one of our greatest friends.

Israel seems bent on oppression. They can keep doing it, but I for one am not going to excuse it.

The world that Palestinian children are growing up in, is largely shaped by Israel. I'm not ok with children having to live like that in North Korea, or Palestine. In the case of Palestine, it's Israel's job to stop it.

 

[Lemon law]

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon law View Post
Ich bin ein Nazist! Und wir mussen die Juden ausrotten!
Yeah, we already know that.. "
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As once again JOS tries to play the anti-Semitic card. As for me the Nazi were gostoppnen before I was even born. Since I am older than you don't ever call me son.

But the flaws in the JOS position is that I am long record as saying what Hitler and the various fascist State did were morally wrong.

The other problem that the JOS has is that even given that Jews were totally robbed by Nazi's, it gives Israelis no such rights to similarly rob Palestinians.

In short JOS, you are full of shit, I don't dislike any religion, I simply can't support the behavior of the Present majority government of Israel. When the Israeli government straitens out its act, I will be proud to support rational Jews, rational Palestinians, and rational Arabs in building a better sustainable peaceful mid-east. The JOS delusion is that the past behavior of Arabs, Palestinians, or Israelis are not totally reprehensible. And out of that past we can somehow prove three wrongs will add up to a single Israeli right.

But as Honest Abe said, a house divided against itself cannot stand.

 

[bfdd]

Israel seems bent on oppression? Point to all the pro-active measures Israel has taken to oppress the Palestinians. Actions which are of a REACTIONARY nature, can hardly be considered oppressive.

I have yet to see anything come from the Palestinians that indicates the populace wants peace. 9 month settlement freeze in which Israel agreed to sit down and discuss their issues. Palestinians did nothing until after the deadline in which they bitched about the unfreezing of settlements. Israel is no saint, but you misguided idiots taking the sides of the Palestinians act like defending a child who is holding his breath until his mother gives him the candy is a legitimate form of diplomacy/politics.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Your entire post is about the bad things Palestinians do.

That has nothing to do with what Israel does. Nothing.

thats because Israel ALWAYS acts in defense of its people. whether its a pre-emptive attack like it did in 67, or retaliatory strikes of rocket and mortar attacks, or a wall to stop suicide bombers from coming into their cities easily, israel ALWAYS acts to protect its citzens.

whether you define israel's actions as cause or effect is completely up to you. I clearly define them as effect.

The United States could have put our boot on Japan's neck in 1945. We didn't and Japan became one of our greatest friends.

that is true. but how friendly would the US be to a Japan that, after surrendering, kept attacking us?


Israel seems bent on oppression. They can keep doing it, but I for one am not going to excuse it.

oppressing the people who launch rockets and mortars into israel? if you cant agree on that, you are dumb.

The world that Palestinian children are growing up in, is largely shaped by Israel. I'm not ok with children having to live like that in North Korea, or Palestine. In the case of Palestine, it's Israel's job to stop it.

are you kidding me? you are comparing North Korea to Israel?

Israel doesnt brainwash its citizens to believing Kim Jong is the supreme leader of the world. Israelis live in a HIGHLY technilogical society and doesnt block its citizens from accessing world news or world communications.

it also doesnt shape the news it does recieve because israel has freedom of the press (unlike in the Palestinian territories)

israel also holds countless gay parades. Id like to see that happen anywhere in the middle east and even NK in fact.

you should watch the documentary on NK

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/explorer/3089/Overview

I saw this one on netflix.

come back to me when you honestly believe israel is anything like that POS country

 

[bfdd]

What's funny is I consider what the Palestinians do to be similar to that of North Korea. Bitch and moan for aid, when you think people have started to forget about you do something crazy so you can bitch and moan for more aid.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

So you claim....rofl....hahahaaa

So have I!! We were treated like VIP`s by the Israeli Navy!! We were welcomed with open arms, during the so called -- if you could honestly call it that --UN sanctioned PLO evacuation in 1982.

JEDIYoda I found a picture of you when you were in the Navy. I think there's enough room that JoS can get onboard so you two can go on a secret SAS mission in Palestine to assassinate Abbas.

 

[Tom]

Israel seems bent on oppression? Point to all the pro-active measures Israel has taken to oppress the Palestinians. Actions which are of a REACTIONARY nature, can hardly be considered oppressive.

I have yet to see anything come from the Palestinians that indicates the populace wants peace. 9 month settlement freeze in which Israel agreed to sit down and discuss their issues. Palestinians did nothing until after the deadline in which they bitched about the unfreezing of settlements. Israel is no saint, but you misguided idiots taking the sides of the Palestinians act like defending a child who is holding his breath until his mother gives him the candy is a legitimate form of diplomacy/politics.

You are the idiot. Expecting Israel to behave like a civilized democracy is not asking too much. You describe Israel's actions as reactionary, the truth is Israel defines the entire situation.

Read you own words, they are extremely offensive, you apparently are unable to have a discussion with equals, you feel compelled to call me and others, idiots, you refer to the Palestinians as children.

You are no better than any other human being, it is not right to speak to me or about other people in the way you do. If you have parents, they should be ashamed to read what you write.

Referring to people as idiots..who raised you ?

 

[DominionSeraph]

You describe Israel's actions as reactionary, the truth is Israel defines the entire situation.

The Israelis have shown themselves open to multiple avenues of peace. It is not they who are saying, "No," to reasonable offers.
The Palestinians, in their demand for complete capitulation, are the aggressors here. And Israel is allowed to respond to such.

 

[JEDIYoda]

JEDIYoda I found a picture of you when you were in the Navy. I think there's enough room that JoS can get onboard so you two can go on a secret SAS mission in Palestine to assassinate Abbas.

iT is truly sad that you cannot back up your statements so you resort to posting a picture of your mother, while trying to pass it off as a picture of me!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

with US taxpayer $$$ of course

actually no....before the US became allies with Israel there were plenty of Jews quite willing to make huge donations to Israel...the same is still true and it still happens.
You must remember the only effect the US has on Israel is they have managed to muzzle Israeli`s military. If the US never became allies and even if Israel did not have nuclear weapons, the middle east would be a wasteland of devastation.
Why? Because when a nation is fighting for survival they fight to win....at all costs and they don`t notify civilians before they take military action!

 

[JEDIYoda]

:Originally Posted by bfdd
Israel seems bent on oppression? Point to all the pro-active measures Israel has taken to oppress the Palestinians. Actions which are of a REACTIONARY nature, can hardly be considered oppressive.

I have yet to see anything come from the Palestinians that indicates the populace wants peace. 9 month settlement freeze in which Israel agreed to sit down and discuss their issues. Palestinians did nothing until after the deadline in which they bitched about the unfreezing of settlements. Israel is no saint, but you misguided idiots taking the sides of the Palestinians act like defending a child who is holding his breath until his mother gives him the candy is a legitimate form of diplomacy/politics.

My response is in bolded letters

Tom states --You are the idiot. Expecting Israel to behave like a civilized democracy is not asking too much. You describe Israel's actions as reactionary, the truth is Israel defines the entire situation.--no the truth is Israel has a right to defend it`s people!! You are the idiot to think Israel that israel`s actions are not reactionary based on what others do it so totally ignorant of the facts!!

Read you own words, they are extremely offensive, you apparently are unable to have a discussion with equals, you feel compelled to call me and others, idiots, you refer to the Palestinians as children.
bffd`s words a very true and accurate. The Palestinians act like children. Example-- Israel put in place a settlement freeze for 9 months. During that 9 month period not one Palestinian approached israel to talk about Peace. But when the 9 months is up like children they decide the all of a sudden want to talk about something....
The palestinian people are their own worse enemies. The truth hurts, huh? Live with it dude.

You are no better than any other human being, it is not right to speak to me or about other people in the way you do. If you have parents, they should be ashamed to read what you write.

I see no issues with what he said concerning you being a misguided pro-Palestinian idiot. He was 100% accurate!!
You guys are like little children. You want everything for nothing!
A state--based on the right of return!! That will never ever happen!!
A state will happen when you get rid of Hamas and find representatives who want true peace. Who also recognize Israel`s right to exist!!

Referring to people as idiots..who raised you ?
The truth hurts.....the word IDIOT is a very accurate description of the present Palestinians and their supporters!

Now don`t get me wrong Israel is not blameless in this who affair.
But there are two sometimes three sides to an argument!!

Shalom

 

[Londo_Jowo]

iT is truly sad that you cannot back up your statements so you resort to posting a picture of your mother, while trying to pass it off as a picture of me!!

I already backed up my statements several pages back, I showed you that relations between the US and Israel were strained during the 1982 Lebanon war.

You on the other hand chose to skip over the posts not once but twice, you have yet to prove you were in the US Navy and that the Israelis were welcoming the US Navy into their ports during the 1982 Lebanon war.

You and JoS are two peas in a pod or maybe the truth is actually two turds in a toilet. As you both are so full of shit it's far from funny.

 

[Freshgeardude]

You are the idiot. Expecting Israel to behave like a civilized democracy is not asking too much. You describe Israel's actions as reactionary, the truth is Israel defines the entire situation.

Read you own words, they are extremely offensive, you apparently are unable to have a discussion with equals, you feel compelled to call me and others, idiots, you refer to the Palestinians as children.

You are no better than any other human being, it is not right to speak to me or about other people in the way you do. If you have parents, they should be ashamed to read what you write.

Referring to people as idiots..who raised you ?

please then, tell me, where in this offer was israel unfair?

Arafat was offered http://www.jewishfederations.org/page.aspx?id=101041



Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to withdraw from 97 percent of the West Bank and 100 percent of the Gaza Strip. In addition, he agreed to dismantle 63 isolated settlements. In exchange for the 5 percent annexation of the West Bank, Israel would increase the size of the Gaza territory by roughly a third.

Barak also made previously unthinkable concessions on Jerusalem, agreeing that Arab neighborhoods of East Jerusalem would become the capital of the new state. The Palestinians would maintain control over their holy places and have "religious sovereignty" over the Temple Mount.

According to U.S. peace negotiator Dennis Ross, Israel offered to create a Palestinian state that was contiguous, and not a series of cantons. Even in the case of the Gaza Strip, which must be physically separate from the West Bank unless Israel were to be cut into non-contiguous pieces, a solution was devised whereby an overland highway would connect the two parts of the Palestinian state without any Israeli checkpoints or interference.
The proposal also addressed the refugee issue, guaranteeing them the right of return to the Palestinian state and reparations from a $30 billion international fund that would be collected to compensate them.
Israel also agreed to give the Palestinians access to water desalinated in its territory.
Arafat was asked to agree to Israeli sovereignty over the parts of the Western Wall religiously significant to Jews (i.e., not the entire Temple Mount), and three early warning stations in the Jordan valley, which Israel would withdraw from after six years. Most important, however, Arafat was expected to agree that the conflict was over at the end of the negotiations. This was the true deal breaker. Arafat was not willing to end the conflict. "For him to end the conflict is to end himself," said Ross.30c

The prevailing view of the Camp David/White House negotiations - that Israel offered generous concessions, and that Yasser Arafat rejected them to pursue the intifada that began in September 2000 - prevailed for more than a year. To counter the perception that Arafat was the obstacle to peace, the Palestinians and their supporters then began to suggest a variety of excuses for why Arafat failed to say "yes" to a proposal that would have established a Palestinian state. The truth is that if the Palestinians were dissatisfied with any part of the Israeli proposal, all they had to do was offer a counterproposal.

They never did.

not a single person in this thread has countered this.

i have posted it several times already

 

[JEDIYoda]

I already backed up my statements several pages back, I showed you that relations between the US and Israel were strained during the 1982 Lebanon war.

You on the other hand chose to skip over the posts not once but twice, you have yet to prove you were in the US Navy and that the Israelis were welcoming the US Navy into their ports during the 1982 Lebanon war.

You and JoS are two peas in a pod or maybe the truth is actually two turds in a toilet. As you both are so full of shit it's far from funny.

Um actually no you didn`t. Read the link you posted. All it talks about is US relations. No where does it directly dispute the fact that we were welcomed with open arms....sorry.

 

[Lemon law]

I still compare the current Israeli to the institution of American slavery of circa 1860. Without saying that Israel was even as rational as 1860 slave holding American nationals.

Because in 1860, the institution of American slavery was economically viable, tell them American African slaves, pick out cotton or else or we will whip the shit out of ye. So an American slaveholder profit to be found, why should American slave holders ever question their moral right to exploit Slave labor. Some of the problem in the Southern position, was in the fact that some of their slaves grew legs, stole themselves, walked North until they found freedom in the North of the Ohio river. As the black slave mantea become, follow the drinking gourd. And at the same time, many American Abolitionist said fuck you the slave holding South, we will not respect your immoral right to hold human property.

At the same time, lesser, violent of American slave rebellions occurred where American slaves became organized, and in the process, instead rose up to murder of American slave holding holding American oppressors. 404 link not found that the murder of American slave holders stirred no Northern Abolitionist sympathies.

Yet now compare the new Israeli position compared to the Palestinians. On one hand we can say Israel was not enslaved the Palestinians, so there is no slave profit motive there, but still Israel stole Palestinian land and Israel has no plan. Instead of Israel having a Palestinian plan, Israel instead puts the Palestinians in long term limbo.. And when Palestinians have no options, Israel is amazed to find, the devil finds work for idle hands to do.

But still we must compare what happened to the slave holding South. They took pride in being freed from the Brits in 1776, yet totally ignored the fact that the morally superior Brits had outlawed slavery in 1807. When crunch time came in 1860, the American slave holders put all their marbles in a American slaveholder alliance with the Brits, on the basis the American slaveholder could with with hold American cotton from world markets.

The point is and remains, it did not work for slave holder during the civil war, why should Israeli Government fools think it will work for them in 2011. As world wide outrage against Israeli policy arrogance continues to build.

Simply to say it best, neither position is anything but morally repugnant.

 

[DominionSeraph]

I still compare the current Israeli to the institution of American slavery of circa 1860.

Because you're an idiot.

Instead of Israel having a Palestinian plan, Israel instead puts the Palestinians in long term limbo.

The course of their lives isn't Israel's responsibility, just as it isn't White America's responsibility to plot out the course that black Americans should take.

See, you just show yourself to be supremely racist -- your entire view on this matter is colored by you placing Israelis as caretakers of the incapable Palestinians. You refuse to assign the little brown people any responsibility for their lives.

The Palestinians are free people, yet instead of making something out of what they have, they throw a temper tantrum of, "Gimme, gimme gimme!"
You do not reward a temper tantrum. You especially do not reward murder.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Um actually no you didn`t. Read the link you posted. All it talks about is US relations. No where does it directly dispute the fact that we were welcomed with open arms....sorry.

The link shows that the Israeli were pissed at the US during that time.

Please come back with proof you were there (1982 Lebanon War)....in the US Navy or feel free to continue showing the forum you're a lying sack of shit.

 

[piasabird]

Why bother improving living conditions for terrorists? If they have the money to buy rockets, they dont need any more.

 

[Veliko]

They should get the Japanese to fix the road. They did it well quick after the earthquake.

 

[Lemon law]

The DomionSeraph delusions is "The Palestinians are free people, yet instead of making something out of what they have, they throw a temper tantrum of, "Gimme, gimme gimme!"
You do not reward a temper tantrum. You especially do not reward murder."

Free people have the right to vote, the right to travel, the right to life, liberty and property, and above all equal rights under law.

Sadly the DominionSeraph free people statement does not meet the remotest sniff test of applying to Palestinians in Israel.

 

[Lemon law]

Why bother improving living conditions for terrorists? If they have the money to buy rockets, they dont need any more.

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There are probably more Israeli terrorists than Palestinian terrorists inside of Israel.

Yet somehow when one Jew murdered Rabin, or one Jew walked into a mosque and opened fire with an automatic weapon, we don't condemn all Jews. Yet let one Palestinian do something rotten and you condemn ALL PALESTINIANS.

Not only is collective punishment very poor reasoning, it would not fly in any American court, and its also defined as an international war crime.

Piasabird, what rock were you hiding under when it was time for to learn how to use and apply logic. But you and Limbaugh use exactly the same reasoning and double standards.

 

[kylebisme]

Israel seems bent on oppression? Point to all the pro-active measures Israel has taken to oppress the Palestinians.

Off the top of my head, ethnically cleansing about three quarters of a million of them from their homeland between 1947-1949 is one of the more obvious examples. Do you not consider that oppressive?

9 month settlement freeze in which Israel agreed to sit down and discuss their issues. Palestinians did nothing until after the deadline in which they bitched about the unfreezing of settlements.

That's not true, as I explained previously in this thread:

Nonsense, see Cabinet approves 10-month West Bank settlement freeze:

Eleven ministers vote in favor of Netanyahu's proposal to halt construction in West Bank for 10-month period in bid to jumpstart peace talks. Eleven ministers vote in favor of initiative; two Shas ministers absent. PM says, 'I hope Arab world will seize this opportunity to promote peace.' Palestinians reject move because freeze does not include construction in east Jerusalem

And Israel didn't even honor what limited freeze they did claim, as detailed in New report by Peace Now - Eight months into the settlement freeze:

The Main Findings:
• At least 600 housing units have started to be built during the freeze, in over 60 different settlements.
• At least 492 of those housing units are in direct violation of the law of the freeze.
• During an average year (when there is no freeze) approximately 1,130 housing units start to be built in 8 months in the settlements. The new construction starts during the moratorium constitute approximately half of the normal construction pace in the settlements.
• Some 2,000 housing units are currently under construction in the settlements, most of them started before the freeze was announced in November 2009.

Palestinians would have been fools to negotiations while Israel was claiming a freeze yet continuing to expand settlements.

Here is the link for the first source which I accidently left out of my previous post.

 

[Freshgeardude]

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There are probably more Israeli terrorists than Palestinian terrorists inside of Israel.

Most ignorant comment I have ever seen in my entire life.

 

[bfdd]

kyle, there's a big difference between oppression 60+ years ago and oppression now. And no, I don't support reparations. All nations are founded on the blood of others, all owned land was once someone elses.