Israel destroys West Bank road

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Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,506
0
76
with US taxpayer $$$ of course

What you conviently covered up as "blah blah blah" when quoting me cleeeeeeeaaarrrrrrrrllllly stated pre-1948so in fact it was with private donations by rich jews in Europe in the years leading to hitler and WWII and the Holocaust
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
The reason it isn't in American mainstream media, SandEagle, is that no one here cares. If anything, all it makes me think is we should stop giving the Palestinians money if they're going to use it so carelessly.

I think it's an interesting story. btw, if Palestinians can build a road for $400k, maybe we should hire them to build roads here. That's pretty cheap.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
I think it's an interesting story. btw, if Palestinians can build a road for $400k, maybe we should hire them to build roads here. That's pretty cheap.

They do not go through all the engineering studies and base stabilization that are required in the US.

Also, the road costs only $200K. The other $200K is graft into officials' pockets.
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,386
32
91
Israel asks for peace while constantly expanding settlements throughout Palestinian territory under cover of a brutal military occupation. Palestinians, along with anyone who has at least two functional braincells to rub together, know that actions speak louder than words.

The Palestinians do not want autonomy. They refuse to either integrate or to have any hard border. Instead they want to be victims of every power in the region so that they don't have to take a hard look at themselves; so that they can counter depression with anger and have scapegoats for their failures.
Israelis do not have a morality that is infinitely independent of their surroundings and so do occasionally give in to the external pressure by the Palestinians to be victimized when internal pressure builds to expand. This is natural -- you cannot expect someone to hold out indefinitely when everything is leaning in the same direction.
The Palestinians maintain an unnecessary state of war against a superior civilization. You will not find any sympathy in me over their loss of a few acres. They can stop it at any time by declaring peace.

It is insanely biased to demand that the Israelis both hold against the Palestinians and themselves indefinitely. It shows a complete lack of intelligence for an external observer to say that the Israelis are the adults and the Palestinians are the babies and just leave them at that -- never applying any additional transform to the situation. Those "babies" are killing people. The Israelis not only have the right to just passive defense, they have a right to actively push to end the war. If that push finds no solution within the Palestinians this side of the death of every Palestinian, c'est la vie. I will pity the Israelis the task God placed before them, and my pity ends there.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
The Palestinians keep hoping for tommorrow to reverse the losses of yesterday; ignoring that today is being wasted and lost.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
The Palestinians do not want autonomy. They refuse to either integrate or to have any hard border. Instead they want to be victims of every power in the region so that they don't have to take a hard look at themselves; so that they can counter depression with anger and have scapegoats for their failures.
Israelis do not have a morality that is infinitely independent of their surroundings and so do occasionally give in to the external pressure by the Palestinians to be victimized when internal pressure builds to expand. This is natural -- you cannot expect someone to hold out indefinitely when everything is leaning in the same direction.
The Palestinians maintain an unnecessary state of war against a superior civilization. You will not find any sympathy in me over their loss of a few acres. They can stop it at any time by declaring peace.

It is insanely biased to demand that the Israelis both hold against the Palestinians and themselves indefinitely. It shows a complete lack of intelligence for an external observer to say that the Israelis are the adults and the Palestinians are the babies and just leave them at that -- never applying any additional transform to the situation. Those "babies" are killing people. The Israelis not only have the right to just passive defense, they have a right to actively push to end the war. If that push finds no solution within the Palestinians this side of the death of every Palestinian, c'est la vie. I will pity the Israelis the task God placed before them, and my pity ends there.

I could not have said it as well as you just did.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
It would've been better if you could provide some documented facts to support such pontifications, but I doubt either of you could do that.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
The Palestinians do not want autonomy. They refuse to either integrate or to have any hard border. Instead they want to be victims of every power in the region so that they don't have to take a hard look at themselves; so that they can counter depression with anger and have scapegoats for their failures.
Israelis do not have a morality that is infinitely independent of their surroundings and so do occasionally give in to the external pressure by the Palestinians to be victimized when internal pressure builds to expand. This is natural -- you cannot expect someone to hold out indefinitely when everything is leaning in the same direction.
The Palestinians maintain an unnecessary state of war against a superior civilization. You will not find any sympathy in me over their loss of a few acres. They can stop it at any time by declaring peace.

It is insanely biased to demand that the Israelis both hold against the Palestinians and themselves indefinitely. It shows a complete lack of intelligence for an external observer to say that the Israelis are the adults and the Palestinians are the babies and just leave them at that -- never applying any additional transform to the situation. Those "babies" are killing people. The Israelis not only have the right to just passive defense, they have a right to actively push to end the war. If that push finds no solution within the Palestinians this side of the death of every Palestinian, c'est la vie. I will pity the Israelis the task God placed before them, and my pity ends there.


Nominated for best written utter BS post of the day !
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally Posted by DominionSeraph--
The Palestinians do not want autonomy. They refuse to either integrate or to have any hard border. Instead they want to be victims of every power in the region so that they don't have to take a hard look at themselves; so that they can counter depression with anger and have scapegoats for their failures.
Israelis do not have a morality that is infinitely independent of their surroundings and so do occasionally give in to the external pressure by the Palestinians to be victimized when internal pressure builds to expand. This is natural -- you cannot expect someone to hold out indefinitely when everything is leaning in the same direction.
The Palestinians maintain an unnecessary state of war against a superior civilization. You will not find any sympathy in me over their loss of a few acres. They can stop it at any time by declaring peace.

It is insanely biased to demand that the Israelis both hold against the Palestinians and themselves indefinitely. It shows a complete lack of intelligence for an external observer to say that the Israelis are the adults and the Palestinians are the babies and just leave them at that -- never applying any additional transform to the situation. Those "babies" are killing people. The Israelis not only have the right to just passive defense, they have a right to actively push to end the war. If that push finds no solution within the Palestinians this side of the death of every Palestinian, c'est la vie. I will pity the Israelis the task God placed before them, and my pity ends there.

Originally Posted by Tom --Nominated for best written utter BS post of the day !

So Tom why would you call something you know nothing about BS?
But hey thats a cool way to pad your post count by pretending to be an idiot.
I nominate Tom for village idiot....
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally Posted by kylebisme
Israel asks for peace while constantly expanding settlements throughout Palestinian territory under cover of a brutal military occupation. Palestinians, along with anyone who has at least two functional braincells to rub together, know that actions speak louder than words.

Originally Posted by DominionSeraph--
The Palestinians do not want autonomy. They refuse to either integrate or to have any hard border. Instead they want to be victims of every power in the region so that they don't have to take a hard look at themselves; so that they can counter depression with anger and have scapegoats for their failures.
Israelis do not have a morality that is infinitely independent of their surroundings and so do occasionally give in to the external pressure by the Palestinians to be victimized when internal pressure builds to expand. This is natural -- you cannot expect someone to hold out indefinitely when everything is leaning in the same direction.
The Palestinians maintain an unnecessary state of war against a superior civilization. You will not find any sympathy in me over their loss of a few acres. They can stop it at any time by declaring peace.

It is insanely biased to demand that the Israelis both hold against the Palestinians and themselves indefinitely. It shows a complete lack of intelligence for an external observer to say that the Israelis are the adults and the Palestinians are the babies and just leave them at that -- never applying any additional transform to the situation. Those "babies" are killing people. The Israelis not only have the right to just passive defense, they have a right to actively push to end the war. If that push finds no solution within the Palestinians this side of the death of every Palestinian, c'est la vie. I will pity the Israelis the task God placed before them, and my pity ends there.

Dominion, you must forgive Kylebisme for his lack of knowledge concerning this and most subjects.
Kylebisme is the person who in the infamous 9/11 thread had his head handed to him when he was askeed to explain the physics. In fact he was caught copying and pasting somebody elses flawed explanation of the physics surrounding 9/11.
Needless to say even his own friends and blind supporters turned against him.

It`s the same way with the subject of Israel, Lemon Law and Kyle use the same hallucinogenic mushrooms. So you need to take what they say as wishful thinking...
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
0
In fact he was caught copying and pasting somebody elses flawed explanation of the physics surrounding 9/11.
This isn't true by any stretch, but JEDIYoda is apparently incapable of honestly discussing the topic at hand, and hence is left to attempt to slander me with a wildly off-topic lie instead.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
So Tom why would you call something you know nothing about BS?
But hey thats a cool way to pad your post count by pretending to be an idiot.
I nominate Tom for village idiot....

Doesn't take a lot to recognize megalomania for what it is.

btw, if you look at my post count per day you would see your assertion about that makes no sense either.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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I have to laugh at all the Israeli fan clubbers falling all over themselves to all agree that Israeli propaganda will forever last, and any Israeli critics are FOS or anti-Semitic. Somewhat similar to 1860 American slaveholder rhetoric that slavery was good for American slaves a system of compassion that should forever remain.

And rather than waking up and smelling the coffee, Israeli fan clubbers simply ignore how bad recent Israeli cred is taking an international beating.

Like countless dictators and international rascals throughout history, all Israeli fan clubbers will be totally stunned when the Israeli jig is finally up. The two recent victims are Mubarak and Gadhahi who had 40 year runs. And on that basis they resisted all calls for reform, it had worked so long they thought it would last forever. But when the end came it happened incredibly fast, and it became too little to late to start for them to reform. Which is the inevitable consequence of failing to smell the coffee for too long.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
So you claim....rofl....hahahaaa

So have I!! We were treated like VIP`s by the Israeli Navy!! We were welcomed with open arms, during the so called -- if you could honestly call it that --UN sanctioned PLO evacuation in 1982.

Bullshit, the Israeli refused access to all US vessels for quite some time after the PLO evacuation. Please prove you were in the military at that time.

Dispute this!

Relations also soured during the 1982 Lebanon War, when the United States even contemplated sanctions to stop the Israeli Siege of Beirut. The U.S. reminded Israel that weaponry provided by the U.S. was to be used for defensive purposes only, and suspended shipments of cluster munitions to Israel. Although the war exposed some serious differences between Israeli and U.S. policies, such as Israel's rejection of the Reagan peace plan of September 1, 1982, it did not alter the Administration's favoritism for Israel and the emphasis it placed on Israel's importance to the United States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_&#8211;_United_States_relations#Reagan_administration_.281981.E2.80.931989.29

Still waiting for proof you served in the US Navy during the 1982 Lebanon War and how the Israelis were welcoming us with open arms during that time.
 
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Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
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I have to laugh at all the Israeli fan clubbers falling all over themselves to all agree that Israeli propaganda will forever last, and any Israeli critics are FOS or anti-Semitic. Somewhat similar to 1860 American slaveholder rhetoric that slavery was good for American slaves a system of compassion that should forever remain.

And rather than waking up and smelling the coffee, Israeli fan clubbers simply ignore how bad recent Israeli cred is taking an international beating.

Like countless dictators and international rascals throughout history, all Israeli fan clubbers will be totally stunned when the Israeli jig is finally up. The two recent victims are Mubarak and Gadhahi who had 40 year runs. And on that basis they resisted all calls for reform, it had worked so long they thought it would last forever. But when the end came it happened incredibly fast, and it became too little to late to start for them to reform. Which is the inevitable consequence of failing to smell the coffee for too long.

Except there's no internal strife in Israel. The citizens like how things are going.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Except there's no internal strife in Israel. The citizens like how things are going.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unlike you I just spent some time reading about the internal Israeli questioning of Bozo Netanyuyu, A. Lieberman, and the crazed settler party folks.

http://www.haaretz.com/

Of course it not just the risk that Israel can fall to internal dissent, but Israel is at big risk at falling to external events. If the international community and larger nations decide Israeli policies must change, Israel is too small and itszy bitsie to long resist. Israel may have 200 + nukes, but cannot possibly withstand any sort of international economic embargo. And because, Israel, by its own arrogant actions have become a magnet for international terrorism, Israel can also fall that way. Up until now and for the short term future, terrorism directed at the Israel State has been little more than an minor Israeli nuisance and hence something can safely ignore. But as Stateless terrorists acquire longer range rockets with better guidance system and also start using chemical, biological, or radiological weapons against Israel, international terrorism will become something that Israelis can't easily ignored.

But I think you fail to understand anything about the nature of the conflict. This is not some Israeli v the entire world sporting contest with defined rules and a binary end, where we can somehow say, its team Israel 83, and the world only 65. And that will be the end of the debate. Which even then would be superficial in two areas. (1) In sports rivalries, the loser always says, wait until next year and the rematch. (2) Nor will the larger world buy the Israeli contention, that if Israel lets its guard down for a single second, the surrounding Arab Nations will push every Israeli Jew into the sea.

The real question, since time extends infinitely forward into the future, is in which position will allow Israel its best hope of being a established and accepted part of the mid-east.
Sadly, IMHO, something the majority Israeli government is ignoring. Because if Israel wants to pig it all, it may end up with nothing. And continued Israeli settlement in the West Bank and East Jerusalem may have already made a possible Palestinian State too small to be self sustaining. Making that other alternative the only end option, namely forcing Israel to assimilate all 3 million Palestinians into Israel with full voting rights. Not only what happened to the former Apartheid State of S. Africa, but the more and more probable final outcome for the Present Israeli State. And of course, then Israel would continue to exist, but not as a State where only Jews have full human rights. As Israel would then become a secular State. Which was the basic Jewish pledge to the UN in 1948.

Because all the State of Israel has done in its 63 existence has been to solve the Jewish refugee crisis post WW2, with a longer lasting Palestinian refugee crisis. But truth be told, those 3 million Palestinians were displaced by Israel and lived inside the the borders of the 1948 Israeli State. As Israel now takes the same position regarding Palestianains that Nazi Germany took against the Jews. Namely that Palestinians are a sub-human race and hence should have no human rights. As Israelis as the superior master race, needs a larger fatherland.

That crap did not work long term for American Slave holders, it did not work for Nazi Germany and other fascist States in Europe or Japan, and it will not work much longer for Israelis either. IN SHORT THAT CRAP NEVER WORKS ESPECIALLY IN A POST UN WORLD.

The point is and remains it can be settled peacefully the South African way, or it may take a bloodbath where no one really wins. But the Present Israel position is untenable much longer.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Funny that every time Israel let is guard down, the Arab nations started up again. After each time promising to behave.

Same goes with the Palestinians; they promise to behave and then they start up an infatida when they can not get things their way.

You still have Muslim nations that want to clean out Israel, some are nukes, some may have nukes and some are trying to get nukes.

Then you have nations that are being run by militants that want to destroy Israel.

So yes, it seems that Israel has nothing to worry about from her surrounding neighbors.

The Arabs consider the Palestinians an inferior race; why should Israel break the mold.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Unlike you I just spent some time reading about the internal Israeli questioning of Bozo Netanyuyu, A. Lieberman, and the crazed settler party folks.

http://www.haaretz.com/

Of course it not just the risk that Israel can fall to internal dissent, but Israel is at big risk at falling to external events. If the international community and larger nations decide Israeli policies must change, Israel is too small and itszy bitsie to long resist. Israel may have 200 + nukes, but cannot possibly withstand any sort of international economic embargo. And because, Israel, by its own arrogant actions have become a magnet for international terrorism, Israel can also fall that way. Up until now and for the short term future, terrorism directed at the Israel State has been little more than an minor Israeli nuisance and hence something can safely ignore. But as Stateless terrorists acquire longer range rockets with better guidance system and also start using chemical, biological, or radiological weapons against Israel, international terrorism will become something that Israelis can't easily ignored.

But I think you fail to understand anything about the nature of the conflict. This is not some Israeli v the entire world sporting contest with defined rules and a binary end, where we can somehow say, its team Israel 83, and the world only 65. And that will be the end of the debate. Which even then would be superficial in two areas. (1) In sports rivalries, the loser always says, wait until next year and the rematch. (2) Nor will the larger world buy the Israeli contention, that if Israel lets its guard down for a single second, the surrounding Arab Nations will push every Israeli Jew into the sea.

The real question, since time extends infinitely forward into the future, is in which position will allow Israel its best hope of being a established and accepted part of the mid-east.
Sadly, IMHO, something the majority Israeli government is ignoring. Because if Israel wants to pig it all, it may end up with nothing. And continued Israeli settlement in the West Bank and East Jerusalem may have already made a possible Palestinian State too small to be self sustaining. Making that other alternative the only end option, namely forcing Israel to assimilate all 3 million Palestinians into Israel with full voting rights. Not only what happened to the former Apartheid State of S. Africa, but the more and more probable final outcome for the Present Israeli State. And of course, then Israel would continue to exist, but not as a State where only Jews have full human rights. As Israel would then become a secular State. Which was the basic Jewish pledge to the UN in 1948.

Because all the State of Israel has done in its 63 existence has been to solve the Jewish refugee crisis post WW2, with a longer lasting Palestinian refugee crisis. But truth be told, those 3 million Palestinians were displaced by Israel and lived inside the the borders of the 1948 Israeli State. As Israel now takes the same position regarding Palestianains that Nazi Germany took against the Jews. Namely that Palestinians are a sub-human race and hence should have no human rights. As Israelis as the superior master race, needs a larger fatherland.

That crap did not work long term for American Slave holders, it did not work for Nazi Germany and other fascist States in Europe or Japan, and it will not work much longer for Israelis either. IN SHORT THAT CRAP NEVER WORKS ESPECIALLY IN A POST UN WORLD.

The point is and remains it can be settled peacefully the South African way, or it may take a bloodbath where no one really wins. But the Present Israel position is untenable much longer.

Umm..actually you are dreaming again!! Your blatant pro-Palestinian banter, is well getting old.
It will never be settled the South African way which is a veiled attempt at bring the subject of apartheid into this discussion. You of all people have been slapped down so many times for trying to compare this situation with the South African apartheid.

Your problem is that you will not ever admit that the Palestinian people are their own worse enemy.

You also will not admit that they do NOT want peace.
Why on God`s green earth would a people that want peace and a state of their own elect to represent them a group that in their charter calls for the destruction of the Israeli people?

Your blindness and constant posturing for an external solution to the Palestinian issue is well ...needless to say fallacious and just plain goofy!!

To even compare the Palestinians as slaves to the Israelis just proves that you have no capability to discuss this without inputting your own false and mis-leading spin on this subject.

You say you want the Palestinians to have a state and peace. Yet you want all or nothing for the Palestinians.

All Israel wants is peace.
You counter that my saying but what about the settlements?

What about them I say?

Israel froze all new settlements for 9 months. What did the Palestinians do? nothing..nada...
They did not approach Israel seeking peace. In fact as it has come to be shown -- even when they did seek peace after the 9 months Abbas had no authority to seek peace.

Israel offered to sit down with the Palestinians and have round the clock talks about peace. If the Palestinians had wanted peace they would have accepted! In fact had the Palestinians accepted and the talks were not to happen or Israel was to leave the talks then the Palestinians could have said -- Hey world -- look -- Israel walked out, they do not want peace@@!! I mean as far as getting the worlds attention this was a no brainer for the Palestinians and they even messed this one up.

I am sorry for people like you for several reasons.
Most of us Jews want the Palestinians to have a land of their own. But there needs to be talks and compromises and the issue of Israeli security is paramount.
Then you have the issue of the right of first return. That issue is dead!!
That will never happen. At one time we offered up that issue and I believe it was in the Peace process with Arafat...that we actually offered that up and agreed to it.

But that was then this is now and the right of first return will NEVER ever happen.

Apartheid huh???...lol
 
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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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Israeli fan clubbers can self delude themselves into thinking that its all the Pals fault, the right to return is a dead issue, and the Arabs agree with Israel the Pales are inferior, when the Arabs take the position that its Israel's responsibility to re assimilate the very people they expelled at the point of a gun.

But this not some sporting contest where you pick your favorite team and cheer for one side or the other.

I am just explaining some of the pre-history Israeli fan clubbers deny and also saying the present Israeli course is not long term sustainable.

The only question is how much longer before Israeli hardliners get really dope slapped.
So moderates on both sides can chart a sustainable course for everyone in the mid-east.

How long before it happens is the only question. But even on this forum, there has been a large increase in the posters who can no longer support Israel, and the same thing is happening in the larger world.
 
Jun 26, 2007
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Israeli fan clubbers can self delude themselves into thinking that its all the Pals fault, the right to return is a dead issue, and the Arabs agree with Israel the Pales are inferior, when the Arabs take the position that its Israel's responsibility to re assimilate the very people they expelled at the point of a gun.

But this not some sporting contest where you pick your favorite team and cheer for one side or the other.

I am just explaining some of the pre-history Israeli fan clubbers deny and also saying the present Israeli course is not long term sustainable.

The only question is how much longer before Israeli hardliners get really dope slapped.
So moderates on both sides can chart a sustainable course for everyone in the mid-east.

How long before it happens is the only question. But even on this forum, there has been a large increase in the posters who can no longer support Israel, and the same thing is happening in the larger world.

You don't seem to understand this... The fight was over in 1967, Israel won, there is nothing that will change that, the only question is how much do the Palestinians long for death?

Israel will be building a tourist Island outside of the Gaza strip with a bridge for access, the PA will have full control over it, unfortunantly i don't think the Pals will let Israel create a proper form of income but will rather attack the Israelis trying to help them like they have ALWAYS done before and when it is done, they will probably attack the tourists rather then have them come there to generate an income for a future Palestinian state...

In the end, there is only one way to deal with a mad dog.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Israel isn't going anywhere, and I'm glad for that.

On the other hand, Israel's behavior toward the Palestinians is abhorrent, as was the treatment of Jews by many nations over the years, the treatment of Native Americans in the USA, etc, etc.

Whatever the Palestinians do or say that is wrong, is irrelevant in justifying what Israel does that is not the right thing to do.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
There you go again JOS, call all the Pals mad dogs, and say Israel won it all in 1967. As you say nothing ever changes.

But wait in 1967, Israel had many willing allies and now can only partly count on but one, and that is getting ever tenuous as Israel insults Obama.

But if we want to cite a country that never lost a war, then the people of Japan are the long term record holders. For a full 3000 years they did whatever they wanted, but that ended in 1945.

But JOS, you can keep telling your self Israel can withstand the call for change, as for me JOS, I will let the results vindicate my position.

Because JOS, if you are honest with your self, the present Israeli position was far better just a year ago. You can tell your self its the fault of the Pals, but world wide the Israeli propaganda lines don't operate world wide any more.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
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Israel isn't going anywhere, and I'm glad for that.

On the other hand, Israel's behavior toward the Palestinians is abhorrent, as was the treatment of Jews by many nations over the years, the treatment of Native Americans in the USA, etc, etc.

Whatever the Palestinians do or say that is wrong, is irrelevant in justifying what Israel does that is not the right thing to do.

I'm fairly sure that if Mexico had lobbed rockets on the count of 100's a week against residents in the south the response would have been 100x what the Israelis have done.

There were settlements being given back, they used it to attack further, there have been let throughs of supplies, halts of settlements and all through it the Palestinians have continued to attack even harder, as if they were convinced that they were winning and had to step up their attacks.

Their leadership has clearly declared that they want to revove all of Israel and kill all Jews, they won't back down from that, how do YOU propose you deal with it?

Just bend over and accept that they attack civilians at their own will or a collective suicide to appease Hamas?