Israel 'cuts Palestinian water'

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Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
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Originally posted by: Red Irish

Yes, I understand your position. I think they feel that if they insult me and goad me enough, I will tire too. Maybe I will, but that won't change the fact that Israel killed over 300 children, is stealing land and, in all likelihood, is depriving the Palestinian people of water.

I have no respect for any of them: their own posts demean them and they have lost any sense of dignity, or indeed humanity, that they may have once possessed.



Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: Red Irish
You're right, I congratulate the Jews on their advances in irrigation in the region. Indeed, they've done such a marvellous job, perhaps we should simply let them deprive Palestinian children of water. If I design a combine harvester, do you think I could get away with robbing a bank?

Can the Palestinians learn from what the Jews did in terms of using the water more efficiently. Or should they sit back and expect handouts?
[/quote]

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. With the disclaimer that it's gotten hard to tell who's being sarcastic in this thread, these kinds of comments make me want to throw up in my mouth. The contempt for basic human rights is just sickening. I agree, on the other hand, that the comments need to be addressed, no matter how depraved.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
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Originally posted by: Blackjack200
The contempt for basic human rights is just sickening.
It doesn't seem like contempt for human rights to those who consider Palestinians sub-human.
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,225
664
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Originally posted by: fallout man
Israel 'cuts Palestinian water'

Israel is denying Palestinians access to even the basic minimum of clean, safe water, Amnesty International says.

In a report, the human rights group says Israeli water restrictions discriminate against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank.

It says that in Gaza, Israel's blockade has brought the water and sewage system to "crisis point".

Israel says the report is flawed and the Palestinians get more water than was agreed under the 1990s peace deal.

'Basic need'

In the 112-page report, Amnesty says that on average Palestinian daily water consumption reaches 70 litres a day, compared with 300 litres for the Israelis.

It says that some Palestinians barely get 20 litres a day - the minimum recommended even in humanitarian emergencies.

Amnesty says that Israel denies West Bank Palestinians to dig wells, and has even destroyed cisterns and impounded water tankers.

At the same time, the report claims, Israeli settlers are enjoying swimming pools and green gardens.


In Gaza, Israel refuses access to many of the building materials needed to renovate the ailing water system, the document says.

It adds that Israel uses more than 80% of the water from the Mountain Aquifer - the main source of underground water in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories.

"Water is a basic need and a right, but for many Palestinians obtaining even poor-quality, subsistence-level quantities of water has become a luxury that they can barely afford," Amnesty's Donatella Rovera said.

"Israel must end its discriminatory policies, immediately lift all the restrictions it imposes on Palestinians' access to water."

Ms Rovera also urged Israel to "take responsibility for addressing the problems it created by allowing Palestinians a fair share of the shared water resources".

Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev said the report was factually inaccurate, accusing the Palestinians of mismanaging water resources.

He also rejected the claim that Israel was preventing Palestinians from drilling for water.

The spokesman said Israel had approved 82 such projects but the Palestinians had only implemented 26 of them.

This is outrageous!!1

The BBC once again exposes their anti-semitic bias by making these preposterous claims!!!11

I have a hard time believing that the nation with the most moral military in the world would do something like deny people water!!!111

We all know that the palestinians brought this on themselves. Access to water can only empower their dangerous terrorist government!1!1

If the palestinians can smuggle in rockets, then they can surely smuggle in water!!1 one one one!!!

God bless you, Mr. Regev, for telling the world the truth! Those palestinians are STEALING water.

Shalom1!!!

Interesting article - too bad you decided to troll your own thread :roll:
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
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Originally posted by: Blackjack200
Originally posted by: Red Irish

Yes, I understand your position. I think they feel that if they insult me and goad me enough, I will tire too. Maybe I will, but that won't change the fact that Israel killed over 300 children, is stealing land and, in all likelihood, is depriving the Palestinian people of water.

I have no respect for any of them: their own posts demean them and they have lost any sense of dignity, or indeed humanity, that they may have once possessed.



Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: Red Irish
You're right, I congratulate the Jews on their advances in irrigation in the region. Indeed, they've done such a marvellous job, perhaps we should simply let them deprive Palestinian children of water. If I design a combine harvester, do you think I could get away with robbing a bank?

Can the Palestinians learn from what the Jews did in terms of using the water more efficiently. Or should they sit back and expect handouts?

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. With the disclaimer that it's gotten hard to tell who's being sarcastic in this thread, these kinds of comments make me want to throw up in my mouth. The contempt for basic human rights is just sickening. I agree, on the other hand, that the comments need to be addressed, no matter how depraved.[/quote]

Human rights is a liberal scheme to transfer power from the haves to have nots. It comes from misguided feelings of guilt and the willingness of the have nots to take advantage of said guilt.

Just because someone needs water to live doesn't mean they have a right to have it.
 

Sclamoz

Guest
Sep 9, 2009
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Originally posted by: kylebisme

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Why should one enemy provide the other with water? If people start dying of thirst I guess they can smuggle water from Egypt instead of weapons now.
Do you think we cut Iraqis off from water and let them die of thirst too, since some of them attack us?

We could have. We bombed their bridges, power plants and so forth. Of course, the difference is Iraq didn't declare war or attack the US as far as I know, and Iraq's water supply isn't in the United States.

A better example would be if the government of Mexico depended on the US for water and other services but wanted Texas back so they declare war and begin launching missiles and suicide bombing the United States, and in return the US stops supplying them with water.

Israel's response to Amnesty International's report.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Abou..._water_27-Oct-2009.htm
Response to Amnesty International's report on Israeli-Palestinian water issues
27 Oct 2009
Israel has fulfilled all its obligations under the water agreement regarding the supply of additional quantities of water to the Palestinians, and has even extensively surpassed the obligatory quantity.

(Communicated by the Foreign Ministry Spokesperson)

The Israel-Palestinian water policy is based on an interim agreement between the two parties, particularly on Article 40 of Annex III to the agreement, which relates to the question of water and sewage. According to the agreement, 23.6 million cubic meters of water will be allocated to the Palestinians annually. In actual effect, they have access to twice as much water.

Israel has fulfilled all its obligations under the water agreement regarding the supply of additional quantities of water to the Palestinians, and has even extensively surpassed the obligatory quantity. The Palestinians, on the other hand, have significantly violated their commitments under the water agreement, specifically regarding important issues such as illegal drilling (they have drilled over 250 wells without the authorization of the Joint Water Commission) and handling of sewage. (The Palestinians are not constructing sewage treatment plants, despite their obligation to do so and the important foreign funding earmarked for this purpose).

Data regarding consumption of fresh natural water clearly shows Israel's fair treatment of Palestinian requirements:

In 1967, Israel's per capita consumption of fresh natural water was 508 (m3/person/year). In 2008, it dramatically dropped to 149. The Palestinian figures for the same consumption went from 86 (in 1967) to 105 (in 2008).

Israel has offered to supply Palestinians with desalinated water, but this possibility is systematically rejected due to political motivations.

While Israel has significantly reduced its use of fresh natural water since 1967, consistently closing the gap between Israeli and Palestinian consumption, it remains unclear how Amnesty's claims of "discriminatory policies" towards Palestinians can sustain the trial of reality. The authors of the report chose to ignore Israeli data, papers and reports, although they contain verifiable facts presented with total transparency. This questionable approach, which consists in systematically disregarding
Israeli material while relying exclusively on Palestinian allegations, raises doubts as to the real intentions of the report's authors and of the organization itself.

A thorough report on the issue of water between Israel and the Palestinians can be consulted on the website of the Israel Water Authority.
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
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lol, the IDF defending it's position is like SS officers defending their treatment of concentration camp inmates.

"We abided by German law, set forth by German judges, and approved by the German parliament."
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
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I wonder if the Palestinians are like the muslims in practicing polygamy? Maybe they are just over-multiplying. How did they get water before the creation of Isreal by the UN. It was the UN that created Isreal as a recognized nation around 1947. Let Jordan build them a pipeline.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Originally posted by: kylebisme
Do you think we [should] cut Iraqis off from water and let them die of thirst too, since some of them attack us?
We could have. We bombed their bridges, power plants and so forth.
I'm sorry, I meant to ask; do you think we should? That goes for what we did to their bridges and power plants along all the people we killed and everything else too.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Of course, the difference is Iraq didn't declare war or attack the US as far as I know, and Iraq's water supply isn't in the United States.
Yet some Iraqis attack our people there, troops and civilians, and of course no Palestinians were attacking Zionists until after Zionists set out to conquer Palestine either.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
A better example would be if the government of Mexico depended on the US for water and other services but wanted Texas back so they declare war and begin launching missiles and suicide bombing the United States, and in return the US stops supplying them with water.
That would be a good example if we were holding Mexico under overwhelming military force while colonizing the land out from under the indigenous population there, killing off whoever gets in the way, and stealing most of their water from them too.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: piasabird
I wonder if the Palestinians are like the muslims in practicing polygamy? Maybe they are just over-multiplying. How did they get water before the creation of Isreal by the UN. It was the UN that created Isreal as a recognized nation around 1947. Let Jordan build them a pipeline.
You wonder like a bigot.
 

Sclamoz

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Sep 9, 2009
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Originally posted by: kylebisme
I'm sorry, I meant to ask; do you think we should? That goes for what we did to their bridges and power plants along all the people we killed and everything else too.

Absolutely. We were at war.


Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Of course, the difference is Iraq didn't declare war or attack the US as far as I know, and Iraq's water supply isn't in the United States.
Originally posted by: kylebisme
Yet some Iraqis attack our people there, troops and civilians, and of course no Palestinians were attacking Zionists until after Zionists set out to conquer Palestine either.

The evil zionists wouldn't be occupying these areas if they weren't constantly attacking Israel. You often point out how much stronger Israel is then Palestine, if they wanted to conquer them why haven't they? Isn't in the Palestinians best interest to find peace since they are faced w/ a militarily superior force that has no regard for them?

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
A better example would be if the government of Mexico depended on the US for water and other services but wanted Texas back so they declare war and begin launching missiles and suicide bombing the United States, and in return the US stops supplying them with water.
Originally posted by: kylebisme
That would be a good example if we were holding Mexico under overwhelming military force while colonizing the land out from under the indigenous population there, killing off whoever gets in the way, and stealing most of their water from them too.

I used Texas as an example because it was formally part of Mexico and we pretty much took it from them and fought a war over it w/ them and still managed a lasting peace w. them.

The rest of your post is opinion and hyperbole.



 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
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Oct 30, 2000
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Originally posted by: kylebisme
If you bother to read the article in the OP, you'll see you have the situation backwards:

In the 112-page report, Amnesty says that on average Palestinian daily water consumption reaches 70 litres a day, compared with 300 litres for the Israelis.

...

Israel has "entirely appropriated the Palestinians' share of the Jordan river" and uses 80% of a key shared aquifer
Israelis are far more inefficient in their watter usage, and expect "handouts" of Palestinian water so much that they take it though overwhelming military force.

So there are two sets of numbers.

One from the Palestinian side and one from the Israeli side.

No matter what the conflict, this seems to be the case.

 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,688
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Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
So there are two sets of numbers.

One from the Palestinian/UN/World Community/Human Rights Organizations side and one from the Israeli side.

No matter what the conflict, this seems to be the case.

Fixed.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Originally posted by: kylebisme
I'm sorry, I meant to ask; do you think we should? That goes for what we did to their bridges and power plants along all the people we killed and everything else too.
Absolutely. We were at war.
You would be willing to dehydrate the population of Iraq to death simply because we invaded their country and some of them fight back?


Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Originally posted by: kylebisme
Yet some Iraqis attack our people there, troops and civilians, and of course no Palestinians were attacking Zionists until after Zionists set out to conquer Palestine either.
The evil zionists wouldn't be occupying these areas if they weren't constantly attacking Israel...
Zionists set out to conquer Palestine decades before the state of Israel existed, and again that started before any Palestinians were attacking them.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
You often point out how much stronger Israel is then Palestine, if they wanted to conquer them why haven't they?
They did, 78% of Palestine around 1948 and the rest in 1967.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Isn't in the Palestinians best interest to find peace since they are faced w/ a militarily superior force that has no regard for them?
It most certainly is in the Palestinians best interest, but that militarily superior force is intent on colonizing the West Bank out from under the millions of the Palestinians there, while a million and a half more people in Gaza under siege, and killing off whoever gets in the way.


Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Originally posted by: kylebisme
That would be a good example if we were holding Mexico under overwhelming military force while colonizing the land out from under the indigenous population there, killing off whoever gets in the way, and stealing most of their water from them too.

I used Texas as an example because it was formally part of Mexico and we pretty much took it from them and fought a war over it w/ them...
Right, like Israel was formally part of Palestine, until Zionists flooded the region and conquered it.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
and still managed a lasting peace w. them.
Right, because we aren't holding Mexico under overwhelming military force while colonizing the land out from under the indigenous population there, killing off whoever gets in the way.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
The rest of your post is opinion and hyperbole.
Rather, what you said is apologist for colonialist conquest, and I simply pointed that out. I can refer to some honest Zionists who will do exactly the same, but it seems you'd rather back the ones you consider "evil" instead.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: Blackjack200
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
So there are two sets of numbers.

One from the Palestinian/UN/World Community/Human Rights Organizations side and one from the Israeli side.

No matter what the conflict, this seems to be the case.
Fixed.
Is Israel actually even claiming different figures, or is CC just lying to polish his golden calf again?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
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Originally posted by: Blackjack200
Originally posted by: Common Courtesy
So there are two sets of numbers.

One from the Palestinian/UN/World Community/Human Rights Organizations side and one from the Israeli side.

No matter what the conflict, this seems to be the case.

Fixed.

Fixed for accuracy sake---

So there are two sets of numbers.

One from the Palestinian side and one from the Israeli side.

No matter what the conflict, this seems to be the case.

 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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It may be somewhat a moot case here, no matter how hard various pro Israeli fan clubbers to polish the pro Israel press in the USA, Israel is skating on very thin ice in the.international community. And since its going to be the international community and not simply the US that will be decision makers regarding the water issue and Israeli war crimes issues, its hard to see this thread as making any end difference.

The Israeli right wingers can scream bias to their hearts content, but in the end its going to be increasingly hard for Obama or anyone in the USA to defy the findings of the international community experts if they should decide the case against Israel has validity. Somethings the US can veto in the security council, but I suspect these issue do not apply.
 

kylebisme

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Mar 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
It may be somewhat a moot case here, no matter how hard various pro Israeli fan clubbers to polish the pro Israel press in the USA, Israel is skating on very thin ice in the.international community. And since its going to be the international community and not simply the US that will be decision makers regarding the water issue and Israeli war crimes issues, its hard to see this thread as making any end difference.
I matters, as the international community has been trying to end the conflict for decades, but us being the sole superpower in the world get to overrule them.

Originally posted by: Lemon law
The Israeli right wingers can scream bias to their hearts content, but in the end its going to be increasingly hard for Obama or anyone in the USA to defy the findings of the international community experts if they should decide the case against Israel has validity.
Obama has to ignore it long as our population is kept ignorant of the facts, or else he will be branded as Jew hating madman or worse.

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Somethings the US can veto in the security council, but I suspect these issue do not apply.
Actually accomplishing anything of substance requires US support, whether others in the Security Council are on board or not.
 

Sclamoz

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Sep 9, 2009
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Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Originally posted by: kylebisme
I'm sorry, I meant to ask; do you think we should? That goes for what we did to their bridges and power plants along all the people we killed and everything else too.
Absolutely. We were at war.
Originally posted by: kylebismeYou would be willing to dehydrate the population of Iraq to death simply because we invaded their country and some of them fight back?

When did I say to the death? I haven't seen any figures about Palestinians dying off en-mass from dehydration...


Originally posted by: Sclamoz
The evil zionists wouldn't be occupying these areas if they weren't constantly attacking Israel...
Originally posted by: kylebisme
Zionists set out to conquer Palestine decades before the state of Israel existed, and again that started before any Palestinians were attacking them.

And how do you think the ancestors of the Palestinians ended up there? Its how human migration generally works.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
You often point out how much stronger Israel is then Palestine, if they wanted to conquer them why haven't they?
Originally posted by: kylebisme
They did, 78% of Palestine around 1948 and the rest in 1967.

I was speaking in modern times because back then Israel wasn't powerful militarily.

The US granted a request from the Palestinian National Authority for recognition of the West Bank and Gaza as a Country in view of developments including the Israeli-PLO Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements. In a letter dated January 13, 1997, the Department of State advised the other agencies of the Executive branch that it considered the West Bank and the Gaza Strip to be one area for political, economic, legal and other purposes.[2] The Treasury Department subsequently stated that the country of origin markings of goods from the West Bank and Gaza shall not contain the words ??Israel,?? ??Made in Israel,?? ??Occupied Territories-Israel,?? or words of similar meaning.

A transfer of powers and responsibilities for the Gaza Strip and Jericho took place pursuant to the Israel-PLO 4 May 1994 Cairo Agreement on the Gaza Strip and the Jericho Area. In other areas of the West Bank, transfer of powers took place pursuant to the Israel-PLO 28 September 1995 Interim Agreement, the Israel-PLO 15 January 1997 Protocol Concerning the Redeployment in Hebron, the Israel-PLO 23 October 1998 Wye River Memorandum, and the 4 September 1999 Sharm el-Sheikh Agreement.

The DOP provides that Israel will retain responsibility during the transitional period for external security and for internal security and public order of Israeli settlements and citizens. Direct negotiations to determine the permanent status of Gaza and the West Bank had begun in September 1999 after a three-year hiatus, but have been derailed by the al-Aqsa Intifada that began in September 2000.

In 2003, the Israeli government issued a plan for total withdrawal from the Gaza Strip and part of the northern West Bank by late 2005. This became known as the Disengagement Plan. The Palestinian Authority welcomed this plan, but declared that until final status, it would still consider the Gaza Strip under Israeli occupation. Many Israelis opposed the plan, and tensions were very high in Israel before and after the Disengagement Plan was approved by the Israeli Knesset on February 16, 2005.

In August 2005, the Israel Defense Forces and Israeli police forcibly removed all settlers from the Gaza Strip. Israel completed the disengagement on September 12, 2005. Presently, most of the West Bank is administered by Israel though 42% of it is under varying degrees of autonomous rule by the Fatah-run Palestinian Authority. The Gaza Strip is currently under the control of Hamas.

The International Criminal Court (ICC) is an independent international treaty organization with its own legislative assembly. Many of the member states recognize the State of Palestine. The Palestinian Foreign Minister Riad al-Malki presented the ICC prosecutor with documentary evidence which shows that 67 states in Latin America, Asia, Africa and
Europe have legally recognized the State of Palestine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...st_Bank_and_Gaza_Strip

Of course the question still remains if zionists are so evil and strong why is Palestine it's own state. You think they would just finish it off. Must be some secret plot.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Isn't in the Palestinians best interest to find peace since they are faced w/ a militarily superior force that has no regard for them?

Originally posted by: kylebisme
It most certainly is in the Palestinians best interest, but that militarily superior force is intent on colonizing the West Bank out from under the millions of the Palestinians there, while a million and a half more people in Gaza under siege, and killing off whoever gets in the way.

Under siege? They provide them with water and sewage services and at the same time siege them? "Killing off whoever gets in the way?" What does that even mean?

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Originally posted by: kylebisme
That would be a good example if we were holding Mexico under overwhelming military force while colonizing the land out from under the indigenous population there, killing off whoever gets in the way, and stealing most of their water from them too.

I used Texas as an example because it was formally part of Mexico and we pretty much took it from them and fought a war over it w/ them...
Originally posted by: kylebisme
Right, like Israel was formally part of Palestine, until Zionists flooded the region and conquered it.

Exactly. That's why it was a better example than Iraq.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
and still managed a lasting peace w. them.
Originally posted by: kylebisme
Right, because we aren't holding Mexico under overwhelming military force while colonizing the land out from under the indigenous population there, killing off whoever gets in the way.

Right, we aren't occupying Mexico because they aren't trying to take back Texas and their other former territories by force. If they were I can guarantee you we would respond in a similar fashion.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
The rest of your post is opinion and hyperbole.
Originally posted by: kylebisme
Rather, what you said is apologist for colonialist conquest, and I simply pointed that out. I can refer to some honest Zionists who will do exactly the same, but it seems you'd rather back the ones you consider "evil" instead.

I don't make apologies for anyone. I really don't care about Israel or Palestine. Frankly I think the world would be better off if the Mediterranean swallowed the whole area up.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
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Originally posted by: Sclamoz
When did I say to the death?...
You suggested dehydrating people to death earlier in this thread:

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
If people start dying of thirst...
Which seems rather malevolent to me.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
And how do you think the ancestors of the Palestinians ended up there?
Palestinians ancestors are largely Israelites and others who lived there since before the beginnings of recorded history.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
I was speaking in modern times because back then Israel wasn't powerful militarily.
I was speaking of how the conflict stated, and even before Israel was a state Zionists had a far more powerful military than the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians they ethnically cleansed from the region.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Of course the question still remains if zionists are so evil and strong why is Palestine it's own state.
It isn't a state as far as Israel or the US is considered, and some other states too, and Zionists have no intention of letting it ever be. By the way, I hope you understand that "Zionists" isn't rightly code for Jews, as while most Jews are Zionists, most Zionists aren't Jews.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
You think they would just finish it off. Must be some secret plot.
It's not really a secret, but trying to just finish the conquest off all at once wouldn't go over well with most, so it is being done slowly instead.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Under siege? They provide them with water and sewage services and at the same time siege them?
Yeah, Gaza has been under blockade since Israel withdrew to it's borders, an exceedingly harsh one since Hamas won the elections, though Israel does still sell Palestinians some services when it suits them.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
"Killing off whoever gets in the way?" What does that even mean?
It means piles of dead bodies over the years, here is a detailed list from 2000-2008, not counting the fifteen hundred or killed in Lebanon during that time. Then of course there was the Gaza massacre since then and others, and much more before.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
Right, we aren't occupying Mexico because they aren't trying to take back Texas and their other former territories by force.
We didn't ethnically cleanse the bulk of the existing population from Texas, but rather gave them citizenship, hence the reason that went over smoother.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
If they were I can guarantee you we would respond in a similar fashion.
We don't have any interest in colonizing Mexico out from under the people there, while Israel has been doing that to the West Bank since the moment they conquered it, as Zionist leaders had been plotting to do since long before.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
I don't make apologies for anyone.
While I can believe that you don't intend to be an apologist for Israel's ongoing conquest of Palestine, I know for a fact that it is exactly what you have been doing here.

Originally posted by: Sclamoz
I really don't care about Israel or Palestine. Frankly I think the world would be better off if the Mediterranean swallowed the whole area up.
I'd prefer to work towards a peaceful solution rather than seeing millions of people drowned or displaced, but callous people like yourself arguing against me makes that hard to accomplish.
 

fallout man

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2007
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Originally posted by: Nebor

Human rights is a liberal scheme to transfer power from the haves to have nots. It comes from misguided feelings of guilt and the willingness of the have nots to take advantage of said guilt.

Just because someone needs water to live doesn't mean they have a right to have it.

Quoted for TWAT.
 
Last edited:

SamurAchzar

Platinum Member
Feb 15, 2006
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Whats up with all this Nazi bullshit by the Hamas fanboys? It obviously has nothing to do with reality and just spams what could be good bash fests on Israel.

Anyway, don't take those international human rights organizations too seriously, mostly they are harbors for extreme left which is hostile towards Israel anyway. Didn't see Amnesty yelling when thousands of rockets hit Israel over 8 years, nor did I see them saying anything to Hizballah over their aggression. And then you've got UNWRA, which went even further and actively helped Hamas in their fighting with Israel during Cast Lead (which reminds me, UNWRA is an aid agency set up JUST for the Palestinians. How come the rest of the world can do with ONE agency, but the Palestinians need their own?).

So put these aside too; As well as the Human Rights Council of the UN, led by countries of glorious freedom such as Libya, China and Egypt.

And don't worry, fanboys. Israel isn't losing public opinion at all; Muslims see to that daily, like the Fort Hood terrorist. In Europe grow a new generation of right wing leaders who enjoy public popularity just for one cause - stopping the Muslim immigration - guys like Hirt Wilders, so Europe will probably be much friendlier towards Israel in the upcoming years. Also Markel, Sarcozi and the British Conservatives are all very much more friendly to Israel than in the past.

Now, then, to the matter at hand:

1. Can anyone show data supporting the claim that Israel stops the Palestinians from digging wells? Might be smuggling tunnels we're talking about?
2. What about contradicting the Israeli spokesman about the number of digging projects authorized compared to what's been performed in reality?

Unfortunately the Palestinians have grown to be a gang of leeches, living off international support, can't do shit for their own good, filled with corruption (billionaire Arafat) and hate. Very easy to blame Israel for everything, shooting rockets with one hand while relying on Israeli infrastructure (water, electricity) with the other.
You can't ignore the facts that Israel already approached them several times and offered them sovereignty which they turned down, while imposing unrealistic demands (right of return as an example), just to stall the process.

Ultimately, 15 years after the Oslo process which began as an initiative to create a peaceful, prosperous Palestinian state, Israel had to resort to military means to get a strong hold on the Palestinians and can now live with this situation forever. The Palestinians can't, but they're too collectively stupid for their own good.
Israelis used to think they must have peace to progress economically; 15 years of Intifadas together with Hamas fine attempt at rocketry only showed the average Israeli that peace is very far away. So now they are left to fuck with one another, while Israel gave them a proper beating during Cast Lead (did you notice how quiet it is now?).

Obviously population under siege (or as some of the idiots here claim, under "ethnic cleansing") wouldn't have the highest reproduction rate in the world.

Anyway, this situation can go forever. Either that, or the Palestinians can put their weapons down and negotiate a peace deal. They won't get exactly what they want, but why should they?
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
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Whats up with all this Nazi bullshit by the Hamas fanboys? It obviously has nothing to do with reality and just spams what could be good bash fests on Israel.

Anyway, don't take those international human rights organizations too seriously, mostly they are harbors for extreme left which is hostile towards Israel anyway. Didn't see Amnesty yelling when thousands of rockets hit Israel over 8 years, nor did I see them saying anything to Hizballah over their aggression. And then you've got UNWRA, which went even further and actively helped Hamas in their fighting with Israel during Cast Lead (which reminds me, UNWRA is an aid agency set up JUST for the Palestinians. How come the rest of the world can do with ONE agency, but the Palestinians need their own?).

FUD FUD FUD. The many human rights organizations that all agree on the many abuses that Israel commits in the occupied territories are not at fault if you have selective vision.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/a...a-407e-93e3-cd88f7a57c26/mde210042009eng.html condemnation of Hamas for executions. I Didn't even bother searching for 'HAMAS' in the search. I just looked at the page regarding the Palestinians Authority. You can go ahead and look at the website, I'm sure its your first time taking a peek.

They seem to very clearly condemn, in tandem, any actions committed By Hizbollah here. Again I simply took a link from a quick search. I didn't even have to delve deeply. Looking further would reveal more - that is the great part about these types of organizations: they don't purposely ignore HR violations because it suits your political purposes
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/a...09-11dd-8743-d305bea2b2c7/mde020022006en.html
Both sides to this conflict have shown a blatant disregard for the laws of war and civilians on both sides are paying the price as war crimes abound, Amnesty International said today.

Of course, only the Zionist who is guided largely by ideology and a fictional version of history sits there and criticizes groups like Human Rights Watch, Btselem, Amnesty International, International Red Cross, etc. etc.

Its only the "extreme radicals" that try to spread information, like when Israeli Settlers cut down Olive Trees and steal the harvests...but conveniently the police always say that the perps are unknown. http://www.btselem.org/English/Video/20091029_Olive_Harvest.asp
If you weren't a radical, then you'd choose to be quiet and then chastise only the Palestinians, right?

So put these aside too; As well as the Human Rights Council of the UN, led by countries of glorious freedom such as Libya, China and Egypt.
Yes, because somehow oppressing Palestinians, advocating forced transfer, and continuing to perpetuate a system of apartheid is all about glorious freedom. Of course, we don't need to look at the UNHRC...go look at general voting patterns on many issues. I suppose that only the US, Israel, and the frequent token islands of Micronesia, Marshall Islands, Nauru, and Palau stand up for freedom?

And don't worry, fanboys. Israel isn't losing public opinion at all; Muslims see to that daily, like the Fort Hood terrorist. In Europe grow a new generation of right wing leaders who enjoy public popularity just for one cause - stopping the Muslim immigration - guys like Hirt Wilders, so Europe will probably be much friendlier towards Israel in the upcoming years. Also Markel, Sarcozi and the British Conservatives are all very much more friendly to Israel than in the past.

Israel is losing plenty of PR and needs to engage in as much hasbara as possible. The reality is that it HAS to engage in obfuscation and throw up smoke screens all over so the radical government can continue to dominate and oppress the Palestinians. You got to hand it to the Israelis - the dominant Mid East superpower casts itself as an honest peace partner that is afraid it will get squashed. Riiight.

Jstreet (I don't agree with their motives, but atleast they appear to me much more serious about reaching a real 2 state solution) has come in and literally shaken the establishment. Activists like Anna Baltzer are finally getting more public exposure. People like Phillip Weiss and David Horowitz get a piece published in Newsweek. Even formally PEP (Progressive Except Palestine) groups, like COPINK, had their view shaken in Gaza and are now firmly planted politically on the issue rather than quietly ignore it. Of course, many of these people are Jews, and its somewhat sad to see that it seems you can't be a non Jew and comment on the issue publically...but it is changing. It will take more time to try mobilize and counter 50+ years of far right AIPAC influence, but I have no doubt that things are finally mobilizing in the other direction after so many years of languish; Palestinians and the peace movement need those Jew.

If you still doubt- look no further than the recent resolution condemning the Goldstone report. As sad it the result was, this vote shows the small changes that are taking place: 36 'present'/'nay' votes....want to take a guess at Lebanon War Resolutions Final Talley just a few years back (here is a hint: 400+ yes vote)?
OR just take a look at what transpired between January and now.
http://mondoweiss.net/2009/11/post-gaza-the-lobby-lost-46-votes-in-the-house.html
H.RES.34 (JAN 09): 390 yeas, 5 nays, 22 presents, and 16 no votes.

H.RES.867 (NOV 09): 344 yeas, 36 nays, 22 presents, and 30 no votes.

Now, then, to the matter at hand:

1. Can anyone show data supporting the claim that Israel stops the Palestinians from digging wells? Might be smuggling tunnels we're talking about?
2. What about contradicting the Israeli spokesman about the number of digging projects authorized compared to what's been performed in reality?

Unfortunately the Palestinians have grown to be a gang of leeches, living off international support, can't do shit for their own good, filled with corruption (billionaire Arafat) and hate. Very easy to blame Israel for everything, shooting rockets with one hand while relying on Israeli infrastructure (water, electricity) with the other.
You can't ignore the facts that Israel already approached them several times and offered them sovereignty which they turned down, while imposing unrealistic demands (right of return as an example), just to stall the process.

I like this. Discount every single human rights organization in a few sentences (which is a simple task for you!), and then come forward asking for proof, while pointing to official Israeli statements stating otherwise! Genius!

Ultimately, 15 years after the Oslo process which began as an initiative to create a peaceful, prosperous Palestinian state, Israel had to resort to military means to get a strong hold on the Palestinians and can now live with this situation forever. The Palestinians can't, but they're too collectively stupid for their own good.
Israelis used to think they must have peace to progress economically; 15 years of Intifadas together with Hamas fine attempt at rocketry only showed the average Israeli that peace is very far away. So now they are left to fuck with one another, while Israel gave them a proper beating during Cast Lead (did you notice how quiet it is now?).

Obviously population under siege (or as some of the idiots here claim, under "ethnic cleansing") wouldn't have the highest reproduction rate in the world.

Anyway, this situation can go forever. Either that, or the Palestinians can put their weapons down and negotiate a peace deal. They won't get exactly what they want, but why should they?

Wonderful short piece with racist and prejudiced overtones weaved into a fantastic story of epic proportions. Let me guess - Palestinians purposely fled from their homes in '48 to make way for Arab armies coming in, right? They were announced on radio that was broadcast all over the region, right? ( *hint hint* only a blind and deaf Zionist would actually believe that B.S. from early Zionist propagandists...errr historians. Of course, sometimes people take a while to grow up and see the truth, as evident by the same B.S. that is repeated in fabrications like 'From Time Immemorial', which were published decades are refutation of these types of ridiculous myths).

It is really about wanting equal rights for Palestinians, the end of occupation, the end of apartheid, and full realization of self determination - be it in a one state or two state solution. Of course, you can't seem to comprehend that part because you are still stuck in the primitive, one dimensional perspective of Leon Uris.
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Whats up with all this Nazi bullshit by the Hamas fanboys? It obviously has nothing to do with reality and just spams what could be good bash fests on Israel.

Anyway, don't take those international human rights organizations too seriously, mostly they are harbors for extreme left which is hostile towards Israel anyway. Didn't see Amnesty yelling when thousands of rockets hit Israel over 8 years, nor did I see them saying anything to Hizballah over their aggression. And then you've got UNWRA, which went even further and actively helped Hamas in their fighting with Israel during Cast Lead (which reminds me, UNWRA is an aid agency set up JUST for the Palestinians. How come the rest of the world can do with ONE agency, but the Palestinians need their own?).

So put these aside too; As well as the Human Rights Council of the UN, led by countries of glorious freedom such as Libya, China and Egypt.

And don't worry, fanboys. Israel isn't losing public opinion at all; Muslims see to that daily, like the Fort Hood terrorist. In Europe grow a new generation of right wing leaders who enjoy public popularity just for one cause - stopping the Muslim immigration - guys like Hirt Wilders, so Europe will probably be much friendlier towards Israel in the upcoming years. Also Markel, Sarcozi and the British Conservatives are all very much more friendly to Israel than in the past.

Now, then, to the matter at hand:

1. Can anyone show data supporting the claim that Israel stops the Palestinians from digging wells? Might be smuggling tunnels we're talking about?
2. What about contradicting the Israeli spokesman about the number of digging projects authorized compared to what's been performed in reality?

Unfortunately the Palestinians have grown to be a gang of leeches, living off international support, can't do shit for their own good, filled with corruption (billionaire Arafat) and hate. Very easy to blame Israel for everything, shooting rockets with one hand while relying on Israeli infrastructure (water, electricity) with the other.
You can't ignore the facts that Israel already approached them several times and offered them sovereignty which they turned down, while imposing unrealistic demands (right of return as an example), just to stall the process.

Ultimately, 15 years after the Oslo process which began as an initiative to create a peaceful, prosperous Palestinian state, Israel had to resort to military means to get a strong hold on the Palestinians and can now live with this situation forever. The Palestinians can't, but they're too collectively stupid for their own good.
Israelis used to think they must have peace to progress economically; 15 years of Intifadas together with Hamas fine attempt at rocketry only showed the average Israeli that peace is very far away. So now they are left to fuck with one another, while Israel gave them a proper beating during Cast Lead (did you notice how quiet it is now?).

Obviously population under siege (or as some of the idiots here claim, under "ethnic cleansing") wouldn't have the highest reproduction rate in the world.

Anyway, this situation can go forever. Either that, or the Palestinians can put their weapons down and negotiate a peace deal. They won't get exactly what they want, but why should they?

Your one of the few people on these forums who actually has a grasp on what the reality is in the middle east!!
Excellent response!!