Israel: Commandos seize huge Iranian arms shipment

[kylebisme]

You know the Six Day War like you know the fall of WTC7, in the form of a myth which is in conflict with demonstrable physical reality. That is why you can't substantiate your claims on either, and left to appeal to peoples' misguided faith in one myth to defend your misguided faith in the other instead.

In fact, Israel started the Six Day War with a surprise attack on Egypt, bombing the piss out of their air forces while on they sat on the ground, and then quickly doing the same to Jordan and Syria, which is why Israel was able to conquer so much territory in just six days.

 

[Ozoned]

You know the Six Day War like you know the fall of WTC7, in the form of a myth which is in conflict with demonstrable physical reality. That is why you can't substantiate your claims on either, and left to appeal to peoples' misguided faith in one myth to defend your misguided faith in the other instead.

In fact, Israel started the Six Day War with a surprise attack on Egypt, bombing the piss out of their air forces while on they sat on the ground, and then quickly doing the same to Jordan and Syria, which is why Israel was able to conquer so much territory in just six days.

A pre-emptive attack. And now the humiliated cowards who couldn't defeat little Israel sacrifice their "Palestinian" brothers, using them as pawns for their agression, rather than fight themselves.

 

[Jhhnn]

The problem with pre-emptive attacks, Ozoned, is that they're based on what you think the other side might do, or on what you can get away with saying that they would do... the truth not mattering one whit.

Iraqi WMD's, anybody?

 

[kylebisme]

A pre-emptive attack.

Sure, preempting any need for Israeli leaders to give up their lust for land. Granted, you probably consider our invasion of Iraq a preemptive attack too, eh?

And now the humiliated cowards who couldn't defeat little Israel sacrifice their "Palestinian" brothers, using them as pawns for their agression, rather than fight themselves.

Little Israel had far better weaponry, and the Arab states were speaking at diplomatic solution to prevent Israelis from acting out on their lust for land. So you brand the Arab states as cowards, blame them for Israel's conquest of Palestine, and call for escalation of the conflict? Is it just that you like to watch people murder each other? Did you torture small animals as a child, or is this mentality something which you came to more recently?

 

[Jhhnn]

Yeh, Ozoned, tell us about how surrounding states should take in a few million impoverished refugees, just so that Israeli settlers can take what doesn't belong to them...

That, or just keep squeezing the Pals into smaller and smaller enclaves, until the proper pretext is found to close the gates, lock 'em down, let 'em starve...

 

[JEDIYoda]

Sure, preempting any need for Israeli leaders to give up their lust for land. Granted, you probably consider our invasion of Iraq a preemptive attack too, eh?


Little Israel had far better weaponry, and the Arab states were speaking at diplomatic solution to prevent Israelis from acting out on their lust for land. So you brand the Arab states as cowards, blame them for Israel's conquest of Palestine, and call for escalation of the conflict? Is it just that you like to watch people murder each other? Did you torture small animals as a child, or is this mentality something which you came to more recently?

at best laughable at worst moronic....the arab states would never come together for a diplomatic solution to anything......helll they don`t even like each other....lol

 

[Freshgeardude]

you are forgetting the major fact here. Egypt, for no reason, blocked the Suez Canal, which alone constitutes war and moved a hell load of troops up to the Israeli Border.


Unless you are insane, which I think kylebisme is, you know they are asking for war and are simply preparing for one.


Israel didnt simply think " hmm we hate eygpt, jordan, and syria. Let us go bomb the hell out of them simply because we can. Maybe we can get land out of it!"

only reason Israel kept sinai was for a buffer zone and golan heights was because the syrians would attack from the mountains down to the settlements below.


Would israel give back the golan heights if syria agreed to peace? i think so. Worked with the Egyptians, they gave up half of their land for peace, which has been holding up even today.

 

[Jhhnn]

You don't even have the facts straight, freshgeardude. Egypt declared the straight of Tiran closed to Israeli shipping, although not a single ship bound for Israel was stopped. The Suez canal is entirely Egyptian, although the Israelis, French and British tried to sieze it in 1956.. Half the Egyptian army was in Yemen at the time of the Israeli attack, as well.

Don't hold your breath wrt Israel returning the Golan under any circumstances- they won't even agree to talk about it. Spoils of war, don'tcha know?

 

[kylebisme]

you are forgetting the major fact here. Egypt, for no reason, blocked the Suez Canal, which alone constitutes war...

Egypt had been restricting Israeli shipping from the Suez Canal since 1949, in response to Israels ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and refusal to allow their return. What I'm sure you mean to refer to is Egypt's announces blockade of the Straits of Tiran, which is what Israel absurdly claims as casus belli for launching their attack not only on Egypt, but Jordan and Syria too, and even though Egypt wasn't enforcing any blockade on the Straits of Tiran anyway.

...and moved a hell load of troops up to the Israeli Border.

Egypt put two measly tank battalions on the border and announced the blockade on the Straits of Tiran in accordance with their defence pact with Syria, because Israel's President had threatened to conquer Damascus.

Unless you are insane, which I think kylebisme is, you know they are asking for war and are simply preparing for one.

It takes some insanity to not realize by Israel's swift victory alone that they are the ones who had put by far the most effort into preparing for war.

Israel didnt simply think " hmm we hate eygpt, jordan, and syria. Let us go bomb the hell out of them simply because we can. Maybe we can get land out of it!"

Nor did I ever make such an idiotic claim, as I know the reality of the matter is far more complicated than that, and I have explained as much to you before.

only reason Israel kept sinai was for a buffer zone and golan heights was because the syrians would attack from the mountains down to the settlements below.

Would israel give back the golan heights if syria agreed to peace?

Israel built settlements in the Sinai and the Golan rather than holding them as buffer zones, and holds the Golan to this day, refusing Syria's diplomatic attempts to convince Israel to withdraw.

Worked with the Egyptians, they gave up half of their land for peace, which has been holding up even today.

Egyptians got all their land back thanks to the US agreeing to give Israel billions every year and Egypt promising Israel cut-rate gas deals, and the US gives Egypt billions too so their brutal dictator keeps the population oppressed while they watch their Palestinians brothers suffer under Israeli rule.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Egypt had been restricting Israeli shipping from the Suez Canal since 1949, in response to Israels ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and refusal to allow their return. What I'm sure you mean to refer to is Egypt's announces blockade of the Straits of Tiran, which is what Israel absurdly claims as casus belli for launching their attack not only on Egypt, but Jordan and Syria too, and even though Egypt wasn't enforcing any blockade on the Straits of Tiran anyway.


Egypt put two measly tank battalions on the border and announced the blockade on the Straits of Tiran in accordance with their defence pact with Syria, because Israel's President had threatened to conquer Damascus.


It takes some insanity to not realize by Israel's swift victory alone that they are the ones who had put by far the most effort into preparing for war. -- Umm actually no.....all it mean is that the Israeli`s understand that you need to have a strong armed forces and to be prepared for anything!! -- you use the same logic or lack of logic as you used in the WTC7 thread.....


Nor did I ever make such an idiotic claim, as I know the reality of the matter is far more complicated than that, and I have explained as much to you before.


Israel built settlements in the Sinai and the Golan rather than holding them as buffer zones, and holds the Golan to this day, refusing Syria's diplomatic attempts to convince Israel to withdraw. -- you know nothing of this area and what is actually happenning....except for what you have read in the tabloids


Egyptians got all their land back thanks to the US agreeing to give Israel billions every year and Egypt promising Israel cut-rate gas deals, and the US gives Egypt billions too so their brutal dictator keeps the population oppressed while they watch their Palestinians brothers suffer under Israeli rule.

-- you think...how can we believe a word you say....your arguments and facts often are baseless.......just like the WTC7 thread..lol

 

[kylebisme]

Says the guy who can't even manage to keep his comment separated from what he quotes, seems to think bolding his text makes his point stronger, and can't help but appeal to peoples' misguided faith in the myth of what happened on 9/11 to ad hominem me in unrelated discussions.

Anyway, your first argument ignored the context of mine and supports the point I was referring to anyway, and your second argument is apparently based on your own ignorance on the subject and well refuted here.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Egypt had been restricting Israeli shipping from the Suez Canal since 1949, in response to Israels ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and refusal to allow their return. What I'm sure you mean to refer to is Egypt's announces blockade of the Straits of Tiran, which is what Israel absurdly claims as casus belli for launching their attack not only on Egypt, but Jordan and Syria too, and even though Egypt wasn't enforcing any blockade on the Straits of Tiran anyway.


Egypt put two measly tank battalions on the border and announced the blockade on the Straits of Tiran in accordance with their defence pact with Syria, because Israel's President had threatened to conquer Damascus.


It takes some insanity to not realize by Israel's swift victory alone that they are the ones who had put by far the most effort into preparing for war.


Nor did I ever make such an idiotic claim, as I know the reality of the matter is far more complicated than that, and I have explained as much to you before.


Israel built settlements in the Sinai and the Golan rather than holding them as buffer zones, and holds the Golan to this day, refusing Syria's diplomatic attempts to convince Israel to withdraw.


Egyptians got all their land back thanks to the US agreeing to give Israel billions every year and Egypt promising Israel cut-rate gas deals, and the US gives Egypt billions too so their brutal dictator keeps the population oppressed while they watch their Palestinians brothers suffer under Israeli rule.

bolded-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

Following numerous border clashes between Israel and its Arab neighbours, particularly Syria, Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser expelled the United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF) from the Sinai Peninsula in May 1967.[8] The peacekeeping force had been stationed there since 1957, following a British-French-Israeli invasion of Egypt which was launched during the Suez Crisis.[9] Egypt amassed 1,000 tanks and nearly 100,000 soldiers on the Israeli border[10] and closed the Straits of Tiran to all ships flying Israeli flags or carrying strategic materials, receiving strong support from other Arab countries.[11] Israel responded with a similar mobilization that included the call up of 70,000 reservists to augment the regular IDF forces.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War#cite_note-11


1,000 tanks and 100,000 soldiers. you fucking moron. learn your facts before you start to babble crap

 

[SamurAchzar]

These idiots are too busy rewriting history to spend time on something negligible as the facts. Gotta love them new age historians.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Pardon me Common Courtesy, but saying, "But they ( The Palestinian people ) have to speak with one voice and demonstrate that peace is desired.", is a somewhat absurd dream. As it is, Israel is deeply divided, the Palestinian people, now being split into Fatah and Hamas are even more deeply divided, and then we have to factor in the few percent of them that are active terrorists, and also the surrounding Arab nations who are deeply unhappy with Israeli policies.

As it is, and on all sides, its the extremists that drive the policies, and for sheer bat shit crazy, there is not a dimes worth of difference between Israeli settler parties and stateless anti Israeli terrorists.

And in that general climate, any realistic peace process is completely lost in the shuffle. And as the conflict moves into year 62, with not a dimes worth of progress, the lone bright spot may still be land for peace using the land captured during the 1967 war. Land Israel can have no legitimate claim on.

If we want a peace process, we can't reward Israel for settling on more and more disputed land. And as far as I am concerned, Israel will never agree to anything but totally one sided terms, meaning the international community will have to step in and impose binding arbitration on both sides. Neither side will be happy, and after 62 years total fairness is an impossible standard, but at least both sides can like it or lump it while being forced to accept the settlement.

Meanwhile waiting for a 100% of Israelis and a 100% of Palestinians to agree, is the same as saying it will never never happen.

Right now, the Palestinian people are speaking with two leaderships and 1.5 voices.

In Israel, there is at least a government that has the authority to make an agreement and the ability to follow up on the agreement.

The Palestinians do not have that capability. Should Israel sit down and solve problems with Abbas, then Hamas will void and/or attempt to destroy the agreement. Israel will not sit down with Hamas until Hamas stops the attacks on Israel and recognizes that Israel is not going to go away just because they wish it.

While Israel may have no "claim" to the West Bank; it is the Arabs that relinquished control of the West Bank to Israel. It was not given to the Palestinians.

Israel has demonstrated that it will remove settlers under the concept of land for peace.
With Gaza it has shown that the Palestinians promise of peace was worthless.
What will happen with respect to the West Bank settlements will determine on what is offered by the Palestinians to make it worth Israel to remove the settlements.

Right now, the Palestinians have offered up squat.

 

[Lemon law]

These idiots are too busy rewriting history to spend time on something negligible as the facts. Gotta love them new age historians.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No you miss the point Sammy, you have your own version of revisionists history, you use the counteract the other sides version of revisionist history, and proving the other side is not 100% correct in their version does not make your side's distorted version 100% right either.

And in the whole fast shuffle the truth gets lost, but then again, in any war, the first causality is always the truth.

 

[EagleKeeper]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No you miss the point Sammy, you have your own version of revisionists history, you use the counteract the other sides version of revisionist history, and proving the other side is not 100% correct in their version does not make your side's distorted version 100% right either.

And in the whole fast shuffle the truth gets lost, but then again, in any war, the first causality is always the truth.

His misuse of the actual numbers in attempt to villanize Israel is the problem.
Numbers can be misinterpreted, but when he understates by an order of magnitude to make his point....

 

[kylebisme]

learn your facts before you start to babble crap

That Egypt's troops on the border were no match for Israel is a simple matter of fact, as the Israeli military chief of staff, Yitzhak Rabin noted:

I do not think that Nasser wanted war. The two divisions which he sent to the Sinai, on May 14, would not have been sufficient to start an offensive against Israel. He knew it, and we knew it.

Are you going to accuse Rabin of babbling crap too?

 

[Freshgeardude]

That Egypt's troops on the border were no match for Israel is a simple matter of fact, as the Israeli military chief of staff, Yitzhak Rabin noted:


Are you going to accuse Rabin of babbling crap too?

Commandos go into areas where they are outnumbered. would that stop them? no.

just because they have a small troop size (relatively) doesnt mean they cant still do damage and kill people.



by the way, go read the rest of that wikipedia as to why the war started. in there you will find Jordanians trying to build a dam to stop water supply for Israel, Egypt kicking out peacekeepers, Egypt blocking Israel's southern shipping route, moving up to the border of israel, and syria shelling civilian settlements.


simply put, if you think israel started the whole issue which lead to the six day war, you are biased to the point where not even your posts should be read

 

[EagleKeeper]

learn your facts before you start to babble crap

That Egypt's troops on the border were no match for Israel is a simple matter of fact, as the Israeli military chief of staff, Yitzhak Rabin noted:

I do not think that Nasser wanted war. The two divisions which he sent to the Sinai, on May 14, would not have been sufficient to start an offensive against Israel. He knew it, and we knew it.

Are you going to accuse Rabin of babbling crap too?

Wiki

What a difference 3 weeks make. Ignoring the following three weeks will butress your opinion.
Using what actually happened turns your arguements into swiss cheese. Egypt was not preparing for peace!

On the eve of the war, Egypt massed approximately 100,000 of its 160,000 troops in the Sinai, including all of its seven divisions (four infantry, two armored and one mechanized), as well as four independent infantry and four independent armored brigades. No less than a third of them were veterans of Egypt's intervention into the Yemen Civil War and another third were reservists. These forces had 950 tanks, 1,100 APCs and more than 1,000 artillery pieces.[110] At the same time some Egyptian troops (15,000 - 20,000) were still fighting in Yemen.[111][112][113][114] Nasser's ambivalence about his goals and objectives was reflected in his orders to the military. The general staff changed the operational plan four times in May 1967, each change requiring the redeployment of troops, with the inevitable toll on both men and vehicles. Towards the end of May, Nasser finally forbade the general staff from proceeding with the Qahir ("Victory") plan, which called for a light infantry screen in the forward fortifications with the bulk of the forces held back to conduct a massive counterattack against the main Israeli advance when identified, and ordered a forward defense of the Sinai.[115] In the meantime, he continued to take actions intended to increase the level of mobilization of Egypt, Syria and Jordan, in order to bring pressure on Israel.

What Egypt did in early May was not what they were doing in late May.

On June 3, days before the war, Egypt flew to Amman two battalions of commandos tasked with infiltrating Israel's borders and engaging in attacks and bombings so as to draw IDF into a Jordanian front and ease the pressure on the Egyptians. Soviet-made artillery and Egyptian military supplies and crews were also flown to Jordan.[94]

Yes, Egypt's intentions were very honorable!

 

[kylebisme]

What a difference 3 weeks make.

Troops dancing around in the desert for three weeks sending some commandos to the line doesn't change the fact that Egypt was in no position to start an offensive against Israel. But I'm guessing you are one who thinks Iraq posed an imminent threat to us too, and by that scale a kid with a slingshot could be considered an imminent threat Israel, which is of course how Israelis tend to treat such kids.

Egypt's intentions were very honorable!

Egypt's intentions was to pressure Israel into backing down from their threats against Syria, but they were a paper tiger to Israel, and Israel called their bluff to launch a massive land grab.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Troops dancing around in the desert for three weeks sending some commandos to the line doesn't change the fact that Egypt was in no position to start an offensive against Israel. But I'm guessing you are one who thinks Iraq posed an imminent threat to us too, and by that scale a kid with a slingshot could be considered an imminent threat Israel, which is of course how Israelis tend to treat such kids.


Egypt's intentions was to pressure Israel into backing down from their threats against Syria, but they were a paper tiger to Israel, and Israel called their bluff to launch a massive land grab.

Why would Egypt increase their troop strength on the border by 10 fold.

Why would Egypt send crack commando troops over to Jordan to infiltrate Israel.

Believe what you want - the stats and actions of the Arabs countries prove differently.

Egypt was trying to call Israel's bluff (in early May) and when Israel would not back down, Egypt setup for an offensive - they were just caught with their pants down by Israel not following the Arab timeline.

Of course all the other Arab armies had not intention of supporting Egypt, Syria and Jordan - all were just acting as cheerleaders.

There is ocean front property in Arizona for you also - cheap

 

[Number1]

BLAH guy who can't even manage to keep his comment separated from what he quotes, BLAH

You talk a lot of shit for a guy who didn't know how to use a spell checker in a browser until I showed you how to do it.

You use to blame your spelling mistakes on your dyslexia. It wasn't dyslexia, it was stupidity.

 

[kylebisme]

Why would Egypt increase their troop strength on the border by 10 fold.

Why would Egypt send crack commando troops over to Jordan to infiltrate Israel.

Because they were trying to get Israel to back down from threats to invade Syria. Egypt was petitioning for a diplomatic solution while displaying what military capability they had in an attempt to persuade Israel not to attack, and Israel used it as an excuse to attack anyway.

You talk a lot of shit for a guy who didn't know how to use a spell checker in a browser until I showed you how to do it.

I'd used spell checkers in browsers long before you mentioned it. I simply did, and still do, prefer to use Orangoo's spell check, because it is a lot better at figuring out what I meant to type than any other spell check I've come across.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Because they were trying to get Israel to back down from threats to invade Syria. Egypt was petitioning for a diplomatic solution while displaying what military capability they had in an attempt to persuade Israel not to attack, and Israel used it as an excuse to attack anyway.

It is a good thing you are not a military strategist.

Your "diplomatic" solution is what is considered a stall job/deception/slight of hand to divert the opponent from what true intentions are - Sending in commando to infiltrate a country and disrupt military actions in advance! Such in itself is an act of war.

Israel was concerned about the Suez not Syria. Egypt had already declared what was considered an act of war (by the international community) against vessels that were sailing under the Israeli flag orcarrying goods to/from Israel.

Such is the same that triggered the previous conflict - Egypt planning to close the Straits to Israeli commerce

 

[kylebisme]

Here is Moshe Dayan explaining Israel's intrest in Syria:

After all, I know how at least 80 percent of the clashes there started. In my opinion, more than 80 percent, but let's talk about 80 percent. It went this way: We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance farther, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was. I did that, and Laskov and Czera did that, and Yitzhak did that, but it seemed to me that the person who most enjoyed these games was Dado. We thought that we could change the lines of the ceasefire accords by military actions that were less than war. That is, to seize some territory and hold it until the enemy despairs and gives it to us.

And, from the same link, Jeremy Bowen mentioning Israel's threats to invade Syria:

The toughest threat was reported by the news agency United Press International (UPI) on 12 May: 'A high Israeli source said today that Israel would take limited military action designed to topple the Damascus army regime if Syrian terrorists continue sabotage raids inside Israel. Military observers said such an offensive would fall short of all-out war but would be mounted to deliver a telling blow against the Syrian government.' In the West as well as the Arab world the immediate assumption was that the unnamed source was Rabin and that he was serious. In fact, it was Brigadier-General Aharon Yariv, the head of military intelligence, and the story was overwritten. Yariv mentioned 'an all-out invasion of Syria and conquest of Damascus' but only as the most extreme of a range of possibilities. But the damage had been done. Tension was so high that most people, and not just the Arabs, assumed that something much bigger than usual was being planned against Syria.

As long as you insist on playing make-believe to claim none of this happened, we can't rightly have a rational discussion here.