Isn't public schooling too damn expensive?

[Dr. Zaus]

The only problem with a free choice voucher system is small towns where they can only logically support one school; or where the religious affiliation is so strong that a religious school of only one type would be viable, thus screwing the Hindu kids.

If we allow for vouchers for everyone but the religious schools we still do have trouble when the bottom 10% of what would have been the one high-school for 50mi decides that it doesn't like those kids.

And no, you can't reasonably function a high-school with only 10 kids per grade level.

This is why states don't make any sense at all; The real split in life style is between urbanites, suburbanites and rural/small town folk.

I can' see almost no reason for everyone to have a right to own a gun in down-town NYC. I can see you being called retarded for not having something to defend yourself against the wild animals if you live 3 mi north of where I live.

 

[matt0611]

Fuck it, not like this stuff will help me. My 2 kids already go to private schools. But hey, keep the current system, I'm sure things will turn around someday

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Fuck it, not like this stuff will help me. My 2 kids already go to private schools. But hey, keep the current system, I'm sure things will turn around someday

I like vouchers; I just don't see how we get them to work in the above situation? Any ideas?

 

[sonicdrummer20]

I like vouchers; I just don't see how we get them to work in the above situation? Any ideas?

Whats the point of a voucher? The people putting money forward for the vouchers are already paying for private schools they won't need a voucher!

 

[Zebo]

Are you kidding vouchers would actually work. I'd educate my own kids if they gave $8500 ea like public gets to do so. They go to Catholic now and it's only $6900 for 3 (you get a bulk rate discount it's $3800 for the first and cheaper after that) I could literally pocket over $17,000 and still get better education using private school.

That just shows you wastage in public schooling.


Oh and all you know I don't care for religion but I'd send to a Muslim school if it gave better education. This whole religion argument is ridiculous. Product is what I care about. High graduation rates high SAT scores high college success rate private provides.

 

[Exterous]

Public school is a handicap to any smart child

Sadly the public schools are a handicap to any student that falls outside the mediam range they are forced to cater to - this is especially true with the general rise in class size.

The voucher system is interesting but there are some serious issues with it. First, some private schools are better than others. They will get more applicants. Are they allowed to charge more for admission? If so, who pays more the higher price of admission? If not, what incentive is there to do well

Next, as most areas pay taxes for school by school district, who decides where and how those pay for the voucher system. Do you pay a different amount if you use a voucher? What happens if the cost of the voucher is more/less than the taxes you pay to the local school? Do yo, or the school get the same amount of money the state give to the public school on a per student basis? Are you or the private school then subject tot eh exact same state regulations that are applied only to public schools?

What about getting the kdis to these public schools? Are they mandated to have bus service? (Some private schools require parents to drop kids off) If so, how far? Who pays for the cost of bus service? If not, and if this is about offering better education, what about those children that are smart enough to 'warrant' a 'better' school but can't get to a good private school enar them?

Right now private schools are exempt from a number of requirements and guidlines that public schools are required to ahear to. With the introduction of that much government money into the private schooling area I believe the temptation to regulate private schools to the same extent as public schools would be too tempting for politicians to pass up

 

[Vette73]

Are you kidding vouchers would actually work. I'd educate my own kids if they gave $8500 ea like public gets to do so. They go to Catholic now and it's only $6900 for 3 (you get a bulk rate discount it's $3800 for the first and cheaper after that) I could literally pocket over $17,000 and still get better education using private school.

That just shows you wastage in public schooling.


Oh and all you know I don't care for religion but I'd send to a Muslim school if it gave better education. This whole religion argument is ridiculous. Product is what I care about. High graduation rates high SAT scores high college success rate private provides.

False and has been proven many times over and over again.

PSs have high ratings as they only let in certain kids and if you don't follow their line you get kicked out.

Its like the highest rated school in the US is a public HS in Fairfax VA where I live. They are rated that high because only the best kids get in and if you don't hold your grades up you get kicked back to the regular public school.

Its not the schools but the students and parents behind the students.

 

[Zebo]

Might get the parents involved if you can get kicked out eh? I know I am not wanting them to lose good education and go hang out with kids who just don't care.

Liberals just want to wreck involved parents children by putting in classes with uninvolved parents children. Vouchers OTOH allow choice for their children not being ruined. Unfortunately only upper middle class and a couple inner city pilot programs have that choice.

 

[Vette73]

Might get the parents involved if you can get kicked out eh? I know I am not wanting them to lose good education and go hang out with kids who just don't care.

Liberals just want to wreck involved parents children by putting in classes with uninvolved parents children. Vouchers OTOH allow choice for their children not being ruined. Unfortunately only upper middle class and a couple inner city pilot programs have that choice.

Yep its the eveil lierablz that always cause all the problems.

Make sure to check under your bed kids, could be a lierablz hiding there

 

[Dr. Zaus]

They are rated that high because only the best kids get in and if you don't hold your grades up you get kicked back to the regular public school.

On the other hand being around the best and the brightest is helpful to the best and the brightest.. and helpful to stupid fks only in that they can intimidate the smart kids into giving them answers to home work through threats of violence.

I went to a limited enrollment charter school that services a population of about 1 million people; Best school in the damned region and always in the top 5ish of all schools in Texas BUT it doesn't have any admissions requirements except that your parents care enough to line up early to get you in.

Guess what? PACKED with smart kids. Stupid parents just don't give a shit and that means that nothing can fix their kids. Unless the kid is like me, child of parents that were poor and didn't give a shit, but willing to figure the system out himself and fing make his way in.

That kid will win out every time because he's motivated, smart AND capable of overcoming adversity.

 

[Zebo]

Yep its the eveil lierablz that always cause all the problems.

Make sure to check under your bed kids, could be a lierablz hiding there

Liberals in this country yes they are a danger to the whole school system imploding. Liberals in Scandinavian countries & Netherlands OTOH have vouchers.

A system of educational vouchers was introduced in the Netherlands in 1917. Today, more than 70% of pupils attend privately-run but publicly-funded schools, mostly split along denominational lines.[5]

That's the kind of Liberal Zebo is. Stuff that works.

 

[Zebo]

LOL reading this most countries have vouchers to improve competition in the schools and choice. Only USA seems to want to hold on to the notion of protecting our teachers from scrutiny while American kids fall way behind their international competition is good for us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_voucher


This is like Health care here. We get half as much for twice as much. Americans sure love to fuck things up for some reason.

 

[highland145]

False and has been proven many times over and over again.

PSs have high ratings as they only let in certain kids and if you don't follow their line you get kicked out.

Its like the highest rated school in the US is a public HS in Fairfax VA where I live. They are rated that high because only the best kids get in and if you don't hold your grades up you get kicked back to the regular public school.

Its not the schools but the students and parents behind the students.

I pay less for private than the public gets per kid. They don't cater to the super bright or the less than minimal. They ranked in the 97% with the Stanford testing system. Their rules aren't onerous. Show up on time, do your work, stay out of trouble. Sounds a lot like your Fairfax public school. Your miles will vary with every private school.

Amen, parents first but since that hasn't been/won't be fixed, in a lot of cases, what does a caring parent/child do?

I would take advantage of vouchers if I had the chance but I don't. As long as I am able I will pay for private.

 

[highland145]

Liberals in this country yes they are a danger to the whole school system imploding. Liberals in Scandinavian countries & Netherlands OTOH have vouchers.


That's the kind of Liberal Zebo is. Stuff that works.

Can I subscribe to your news letter?

 

[Vette73]

I pay less for private than the public gets per kid. They don't cater to the super bright or the less than minimal. They ranked in the 97% with the Stanford testing system. Their rules aren't onerous. Show up on time, do your work, stay out of trouble. Sounds a lot like your Fairfax public school. Your miles will vary with every private school.

Amen, parents first but since that hasn't been/won't be fixed, in a lot of cases, what does a caring parent/child do?

I would take advantage of vouchers if I had the chance but I don't. As long as I am able I will pay for private.

Does your private school bus all, take in handicap kids, maintain equal sports for both boys and girls, etc...? You do know that the numbers per students are not what each student gets but the amount divided by student right?

Are you really that ignorant or just playing dumb?

 

[highland145]

Does your private school bus all, take in handicap kids, maintain equal sports for both boys and girls, etc...? You do know that the numbers per students are not what each student gets but the amount divided by student right?

Are you really that ignorant or just playing dumb?

Personal attacks? What's your problem?

Prior to our current fiscal problem (2 years ago), the public got $11K per kid. Slice it any way you want but all that extra crap you listed isn't costing "$6K X student population" more. And, at the same time, providing a worse education? Makes perfect sense to keep doing what isn't working.

Liberal Zebo fan club.

The girls actually have more sports than the boys.:\

 

[Vette73]

Personal attacks? What's your problem?

Prior to our current fiscal problem (2 years ago), the public got $11K per kid. Slice it any way you want but all that extra crap you listed isn't costing "$6K X student population" more. And, at the same time, providing a worse education? Makes perfect sense to keep doing what isn't working.

Liberal Zebo fan club.

The girls actually have more sports than the boys.:\

AGAIN

Does your private school bus all, take in handicap kids, maintain equal sports for both boys and girls, etc...?

I'm guessing since you did not answer, its a no.
You do know you can see the school budget anytime if you think they are just throwing parties or think its cheap to educate a special needs kid, put fuel in a hundreds of bus's, etc...

But why do that when you can just blame the boogy man, or liberalz right?

 

[rudder]

How much of our military budget goes towards the defense of other nations? Lets cut that first.

Do not cut it. Charge those countries or leave. They benefit from a U.S. presence by not having to have large defense budgets.

Look we hijacked his thread!

 

[Zebo]

I've seen a kid in wheel chair at my sons school. Most elementary has no sports AFAIK. I am dreading HS which has all the sports and costs about double, also, costs increase because of much more educated teachers some hold real masters and PhDs instead of devry online like most public school teachers get to inflate their salary.. Regardless it's cheaper than public per student.

Liberals have their powerful interests just like Republicans they protect from competition & regulation. That's why everything costs so much and you get so little in return compared to abroad. Teachers are one of them.

 

[highland145]

AGAIN

Does your private school bus all, take in handicap kids, maintain equal sports for both boys and girls, etc...?

I'm guessing since you did not answer, its a no.
You do know you can see the school budget anytime if you think they are just throwing parties or think its cheap to educate a special needs kid, put fuel in a hundreds of bus's, etc...

But why do that when you can just blame the boogy man, or liberalz right?

No buses. If you had read my first post, no mentally handicap kids. If you had read my 2nd post, the girls are ahead on the sports. If you had read Zebo's post you might have realized the American education setup is a failure as compared to "liberal" European systems.

I have looked at the budget. It's so convoluted and vague that you can't make heads or tails of it. Wonder why that is?

There's enough blame to go around, like I already said, starting with the parents. But, also, the over educated idiots that removed corporal punishment. The same ones that said, "Let's not hurt dumb ass Johnny's feelings because he's a dumb ass." Let's dumb down the tests so we look like we're doing a great job, etc. If that over educated idiot is wearing a liberal hat then you should start pointing there. <Holds breath>Not.

 

[CitizenKain]

Ultimately the responsibilty for ensuring children have an education is up to the parents of those children. I pay taxes for someone else to go to school, how is that right? I don't recieve any benefits from them learning. There is no right to Public Schooling, HealthCare, or even Social Programs. I watched yesterday as a mother of 4 children put 3 bags of candy and some soda pop on the conveyor belt at walmart, she paid with EBT. Once again tax-payers providing the best in Dental healthcare for our nations lower class children.

Someone paid taxes so you could go to school, turns out it was a pretty bad investment. Instead of a decent person we got another greedy idiot.

 

[Zebo]

Someone paid taxes so you could go to school, turns out it was a pretty bad investment. Instead of a decent person we got another greedy idiot.

Indeed, terrible investment, that's the whole point - they paid taxes to babysit him. Education is hard to come by in many public schools. Some with over 50&#37; drop out rates and dismal results with those who finish nationally. http://www.capenet.org/facts.html

 

[comptr6]

Considering that eduction=liberal brainwashing of course it's too expensive.

 

[Zebo]

You know you're on the wrong side of this argument, as a liberal, when all those EU "socialist paradises" you yearn for have vouchers and you argue against them.

 

[Murloc]

Considering that 1/3 of the students are going to fail or aren't even going to make it to high school, considering that education isn't a right, and considering how well voluntary home or neighborhood schooling works, how much cheaper it is, and how much more efficient it is (6 hours/day in a public school can be done better at home in 3), I think that public schooling is a waste.

Too many students screw it up for the rest, and you can learn off the internet these days.

Private school teachers get paid way less than their public school counterparts and that's ridiculous.

People also don't gain much intelligence from education. They're either born dumb or they're born smart. But idiots like Obama and Hillary "big money pimpin'" Clinton say that public education FORCED AT GUN POINT will make everyone smarter.

What good has public education done? I can understand vouchers at the state level maybe, but public education is a waste and it really sucks.

1/3 going to fail?
unless americans are really dumb as they say, your figure is way too high.

Education IS a right.

Most parents don't know how to teach maths, and you'd have no quality control.

Also how you're gonna learn difficult stuff "from the internet"? Reading wikipedia?

Public education does not want to make people smarter. People have to learn culture and social interaction to be able to work, and the basic subjects so that they can go on with their studies or learn a profession like electrician, automechanic, truck driver, gardener or whatever.