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ISIS burns Jordanian Pilot alive

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LOl, all the dirty communists are coming out to play, in the thread about a person getting burned to death.

-John
 
Orignal Earl said:
Islamic King better then Pres of US??



Wait..what?...who?..What??
__________________
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It is somewhat humorous, eh?

I'd suggest reading the thread about "why arabs lose wars". This king might be fine for Jordan, but he's not part of American culture and would be lost here. Same for Obama there. Two different people from two different worlds.
 
unokitty said:
King of Jordan


US gave billions of dollars worth of military equipment to an Iraqi government so corrupt that its soldiers ran rather than fight.
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Same US government refused to even provide drones to the British/US educated King of Jordan...


Can't understand why the US government couldn't find a way to work with this guy...

Uno
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We do work with Jordan. IIRC we gave Jordan about a billion dollars, and there's more to come. What we ought to remember is that Jordan is a nation that does not have the inherent stability of Western societies. One bullet in a king can transform a friendly state into an enemy by changing a leader. Those drones might be used against US interests next year and people will be saying "we knew we shouldn't trust Jordan". I'll make the same suggestion I made to Earl and look up the "why arabs lose wars" thread. It's a longer read, but while the piece is old the same concepts apply. Things haven't changed in any fundamental way in a very long time. Further you say
US gave billions of dollars worth of military equipment to an Iraqi government so corrupt that its soldiers ran rather than fight.
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That's not quite right. The same mentality applies to Iraq as it does to the UAE. The Western concept of fighting for your country is utterly alien. Leaders aren't interested in their nation but they are heavily invested in their regime. Consequently soldiers aren't fighting for Iraq, they are fighting for an installed government of the US. The names or borders of nations may change, as they always have, but the sand and the people remain. Our artificial constructs of imaginary lines defining who people belong to are incomprehensible or at best immaterial and irrelevant.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
We do work with Jordan. IIRC we gave Jordan about a billion dollars, and there's more to come.
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That must be a misprint. Jordan has a population of only 6 million people. That would be $170 for every person in that country. I think you are off by a factor of ten or more.
 
bshole said:
That must be a misprint. Jordan has a population of only 6 million people. That would be $170 for every person in that country. I think you are off by a factor of ten or more.
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Not a misprint. Weapons are expensive and Jordan is $2 billion in the hole with water and poverty issues. It's basically propped up by friendly governments like the US, Saudi Arabia, etc.
 
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unokitty said:
US gave billions of dollars worth of military equipment to an Iraqi government so corrupt that its soldiers ran rather than fight.

Same US government refused to even provide drones to the British/US educated King of Jordan...


Can't understand why the US government couldn't find a way to work with this guy...

Uno
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OutHouse said:
Ive never understood that either.
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It seems eminently reasonable to provide as few dictators as possible with American-made weapons; they seem to have a tendency to turn around a few years later and use them to brutally suppress and kill their own citizens.

For once in a blue moon American leaders are thinking ahead instead of just in the moment. Please don't encourage them to fuck this one up too.
 
We have good friends who publicly behead people (Sauudi Arabia) and another that collectively punishes whole populations (Israel) . We propped up murderous despots in Central and South America in the '80's. We traded prisoners for Bergdahl and arms for hostages in Iran. We know very well how to hold our nose to negotiate with people like this. Yet bombing is our language now. This will only make it worse.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
What we ought to remember is that Jordan is a nation that does not have the inherent stability of Western societies. One bullet in a king can transform a friendly state into an enemy by changing a leader. Those drones might be used against US interests next year and people will be saying "we knew we shouldn't trust Jordan".
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I don't know why so few people understand this, but I am glad at least that Obama appears to. There is a good reason why we don't just "give" stuff to countries in the middle east anymore. Every single time we give weapons to middle eastern countries, with the possible single exception of Egypt, it has come back to bite us at some point. Their political systems are just not even remotely as robust as western governments, and they are much harder to reason with and to predict. Arab dictators are well known for totally ignoring US advice and doing whatever the heck they please, even when told they will lose our support. Even to this day, we keep making this stupid mistake again. Just recently the US military has had a TOW Missile program running in Syria wherein they gave TOW missile systems (antiquated but effective 60s era fly-by-wire anti-armor weapons) to "moderate rebels" and figured well that's it boys, we just won the war in Syria! Wrong. Now these same rebels fight for Al-Queda and ISIS.

You don't fight wars by finding somebody who doesn't like the same people you don't like, and just dumping a bunch of weapons in their laps and yelling "NOW YOU FIGHT! GO! FIGHT FOR USA!"
 
yllus said:
It seems eminently reasonable to provide as few dictators as possible with American-made weapons; they seem to have a tendency to turn around a few years later and use them to brutally suppress and kill their own citizens.

For once in a blue moon American leaders are thinking ahead instead of just in the moment. Please don't encourage them to fuck this one up too.
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.................
 
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Hayabusa Rider said:
Since we aren't shipping drones to Jordan we would appear to be selective at least as far as the most advanced weaponry goes.
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Obama is going to Congress for authorization of use of force. I would have to think he is planning on bringing down the thunder.
 
TechBoyJK said:
ISIS is claiming Jordanian air strikes killed a US hostage
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They also claimed hostage was alive when he was not. They also claimed in the John Cantlie video that they held most of Kobane and were just "mopping up," on a day when they helped maybe 60%. Daesh claims a lot of things.
 
OutHouse said:
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bushflag_zps19d9951e.jpg
 
bshole said:
That must be a misprint. Jordan has a population of only 6 million people. That would be $170 for every person in that country. I think you are off by a factor of ten or more.
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Check it out. Looks like we just raised to a $billion per yr. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/03/us-jordan-aid-idUSKBN0L72ET20150203

They've been a big ally to us in the WOT. I'd guess we pay for their top notch Air Force. I've also heard they have excellent HUMINT they share with us.

Fern
 
oobydoobydoo said:
I don't know why so few people understand this, but I am glad at least that Obama appears to. There is a good reason why we don't just "give" stuff to countries in the middle east anymore. Every single time we give weapons to middle eastern countries, with the possible single exception of Egypt, it has come back to bite us at some point. Their political systems are just not even remotely as robust as western governments, and they are much harder to reason with and to predict. Arab dictators are well known for totally ignoring US advice and doing whatever the heck they please, even when told they will lose our support.
-snip-
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Get your stories straight guys.

Obama and Dems etc want those M.E. to carry the fight to ISIS, not us.

If we refuse AND leave them unarmed, what are we really doing?

I'd say that's called a "Big F'ing Nothing". We're not participating, we're not helping you with supplies etc. We'd just be ignoring it, head-in-the-sand.

If anybody truly believes that's the way to go, argue for it. I mean have at it.

But right now Obama wants them to do the heavy lifting, so IMO, he's got to arm them so it at least has a chance at success.

Fern
 
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