ISIS burns Jordanian Pilot alive

[Fern]

Some Americans *really* love a 'strong man'. I think that they long for a 'benevolent king/dictator'.

Oh, God Almighty.

Can people not distinguish foreign policy from domestic policy? Is it that F'ing hard?

Yeah, many people would like a tough decisive leader in foreign policy cuz, ya know, it's their actual job to PROTECT us.

OTOH, we can NOT want tough decisive domestic policy. This is not an inconsistency. We don't want Brown Shirts roaming around here kicking butt. Nor is domestic policy the responsibility of the President. The Constitution bestows that upon Congress. I.e., decisiveness not really called for in domestic policy because it's not his/hers to decide.

Fern

 

[Victorian Gray]

Oh, God Almighty.

Can people not distinguish foreign policy from domestic policy? Is it that F'ing hard?

Yeah, many people would like a tough decisive leader in foreign policy cuz, ya know, it's their actual job to PROTECT us.

OTOH, we can NOT want tough decisive domestic policy. This is not an inconsistency. We don't want Brown Shirts roaming around here kicking butt. Nor is domestic policy the responsibility of the President. The Constitution bestows that upon Congress. I.e., decisiveness not really called for in domestic policy because it's not his/hers to decide.

Fern

America has a history of people looking for, and admiring, a 'strong man'. This forum, for example, is filled with folks 'admiring' the strength of national leaders like Putin (a walking, talking, piece of shit).

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Get your stories straight guys.

Obama and Dems etc want those M.E. to carry the fight to ISIS, not us.

If we refuse AND leave them unarmed, what are we really doing?

I'd say that's called a "Big F'ing Nothing". We're not participating, we're not helping you with supplies etc. We'd just be ignoring it, head-in-the-sand.

If anybody truly believes that's the way to go, argue for it. I mean have at it.

But right now Obama wants them to do the heavy lifting, so IMO, he's got to arm them so it at least has a chance at success.

Fern

I suggest that you read the same thread I pointed out twice so far, the one about Arabs not being able to win wars. We have given a billion so far to Jordan and all 26 members (that's from both parties) of the Senate Armed Services Committee are asking for more and it's almost certain to be approved. Besides that the Pentagon has a black budget that is also supplying Jordan. The king wants more and that's to be expected but F-16s are American made and that's what the burned pilot was flying. American material is being used and supplied.

As far as the ME doing the heavy lifting, damned right. Last thing we need is another war and it's not necessary. We are and will support Jordan in substantial ways, but as I said and the poster you quoted understood that fortunes and regimes and attitudes change all too frequently in the region. I can post Rumsfeld shaking the hand of Saddam if anyone needs a reminder. How many times have we supplied training and weapons to have them used against our interest? Too many. So while I had my doubts (not all dispelled) the current strategy of supplying aid without getting our troops shot at or another war seems to be working better than I expected. That does not mean I'm for giving the keys to the military kingdom to Jordan. There are limits.

You want Jordan to have drones which can be used to attack Israel at some future time? Remember that it's less than a hundred miles between the two nations. I'm thinking the minimum necessary rule ought to apply when supplying technology. Yes, give enough of the right stuff, but again not top shelf. It's not needed anyway.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

America has a history of people looking for, and admiring, a 'strong man'. This forum, for example, is filled with folks 'admiring' the strength of national leaders like Putin (a walking, talking, piece of shit).

People confuse strength with belligerence.

 

[Fern]

I suggest that you read the same thread I pointed out twice so far, the one about Arabs not being able to win wars. -snip-

As far as the ME doing the heavy lifting, damned right.

You want Jordan to have drones which can be used to attack Israel at some future time?

No offense, but this seems confusing.

Arabs can't win, but we want them to try anyway, but if we give them weapons they'll be turned on us or Israel.

I don't see any clarity there.

----------------------

I see no reason to give them drones anyway. They are operated remotely.

Fern

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

No offense, but this seems confusing.

Arabs can't win, but we want them to try anyway, but if we give them weapons they'll be turned on us or Israel.

I don't see any clarity there.

----------------------

I see no reason to give them drones anyway. They are operated remotely.

Fern

The article I referred to is about winning wars. Wars are about nations or in the case of the ME regimes. The difficulties translate into military actions, and if you read what I referred to the elite do well as isolated entities. Joint actions between branches don't work well.

Let me make something clearer perhaps. Giving our best technology can create havoc. Evenly matched the Israelis will best any force in the region, but that does not mean that superior weapons cannot do real damage. What we've given so far can, but arming others is much like the Three Bears. Not too much, not too little, not too advanced, not too primitive. Jordan does not need drones. They would like them, but they don't need them.

Why do you want to give our top shelf technology to Jordan?

 

[oobydoobydoo]

We give Jordan enough technology as it is (block 52 F16s, etc). We won't give them state of the art stuff and Obama has repeatedly ignored calls for him to "man up" and fight or even to give Jordan predator drones, which is something he does that I really like. He ignores people.


What would we gain by giving Jordan state-of-the-art weaponry, and what do we stand to lose? The Jordanians, first of all, are totally untrained in the use of this equipment. It would take at a minimum months to get them to even basic proficiency, and the added stress of an entirely new form of combat will make it even more difficult for them to fight effectively with these weapons. Armies don't just spring up overnight, and every country has a military culture. You have to train these people, and they have a fundamentally different mindset to western society. Jordanians are Sunni muslims (mostly) , just like ISIS. Many of the top leadership in ISIS are Jordanians, if there was some kind of defection orchestrated by the military leadership (as happened many times in Syria in 2011) where do you think those weapons go? Straight to ISIS. What would ISIS be able to do with a squadron of trained F16 pilots? They are pretty inventive in finding ways to terrorize people, I prefer them to have as few opportunities to acquire western tech as possible.


It appears almost nobody besides Hayabusa read my post about Arabs and war. I thought it was informative...

 

[Fern]

I'm think the Jordanians only really need munitions. ISIS has little in the way of anti-aircraft. They have MANPADS, if we can help Jordan there, fine.

If they're going to go in on foot, maybe some armored vehicles to protect them from IEDs. I hear the Kurds are begging for those since most of their combat losses are from IEDs.

That's nothing we or the Israelis couldn't easily counter if they tried to turn it us, or it fell into the hands of ISIS.

Fern

 

[Fern]

-snips-
It appears almost nobody besides Hayabusa read my post about Arabs and war. I thought it was informative...

It's quite long. I've read most of it.

I've got an idea for you:

Many here think ISIS made a huge strategic blunder by burning the pilot. Maybe, maybe not.

I prefer not to underestimate them if possible, plus calculations are difficult to judge in that region. Quite complex, many unknowns, just hard to judge.

Did some undisciplined faction of ISIS kill without input from the higher ups? Or, was this intentional and part of some gambit?

IDK, but am leaning towards intentional.

Why?

My idea, or possibility, is draw in more recruits. How? Well, I'm not sure Jordan is all that loved by the rest of the Arabs over there.

Jordan, unlike other countries, has actually recognized Israel. And a good chunk of Jordan's population are Palestinian. Could they sway the Palestinians in Jordan to come to their (ISIS side)? What about other Arabs?

I mean Jordan started it. They were bombing ISIS first.

Jordan also has a mutual defense pact with Israel. What if ISIS moves to attack Jordan directly? Will Israel be compelled to enter the battle to defend Jordan's territory? If they did, think that would bring in a whole bunch of other Arabs to fight the Jews?

Israel is too clever, but it'll put them and Jordan in a tough spot if ISIS attacks directly.

Fern

 

[blastingcap]

I mean Jordan started it. They were bombing ISIS first.

The predecessors to Daesh (AQ in Iraq) attacked Jordan first. Such as the woman who was going to be traded for the pilot.

If you don't know even this much, then you should really brush up on history first before posting stuff like this.

As for the burning:

The burning was an attempt to draw a parallel between raining bombs from the sky and burying in rubble the "brothers," like what happened in Kobane where huge numbers of Daesh were buried in rubble. The fire was to symbolize the bomb and the bulldozer that dropped rubble on the pilot was to symbolize the collapsing building. Walking the pilot around and showing images of dead people buried under rubble just added to the sense of shame they were trying to incite.

Unfortunately for Daesh they are clueless about Islam so they broke the rule of not torturing prisoners with fire, as fire is Allah's judgment and not man's.

Furthermore if you find yourself in the blast radius of a bomb you are probably knocked out or killed instantly so the fire and burying thing don't torture you the same way that being burned alive would.

This torture and blasphemy against a Sunni prisoner crossed the line with too many people and so the video backfired.

As for Palestine:

The East Banker vs Palestinians things has been an issue for a very long time. Note to self: if I ever have a small country, I'm not letting vast numbers refugees in because they will end up changing the demographics of my country too much. Certainly there is anti-Israeli friction but that predates Daesh. And Israel doesn't have an obligation to defend Jordan. Jordan is more than capable of defending its borders. 400 main battle tanks, 60+ F-16s, dozens of other planes, two squadrons of attack helicopters, 14,000 special forces ALONE plus army regular and whatever irregular troops it could scramble. Some of those troops have Afghan combat experience and are less likely to flee under fire like the Iraqis did. Plus Jordan has the protection of NATO and the GCC as they have no interest in seeing Jordan fall to Daesh. Israel would not have to help at all.

If Daesh really wanted to, they could attack Israel directly from Syria having sleeper agents near the border. They are not quite that stupid, though, as Israel would flatten them mercilessly and it wouldn't even necessary bolster their recruitment if that happened. AQ isn't that dumb either and they have arguably more clout in Southern Syria. Everyone in the region knows not to piss off Israel, who by the way has nukes and has leaders crazy enough to use them if somehow an invasion into Israel were successful. The ultimate suicidal F-U to any potential Arab invasion is to turn the entire Middle East into glass. Syria had a warplane shot down by Israel a few months ago. Israel shrugged and basically said "we're a small country, we have very little time to react to incursions before they reach populated areas. So we almost immediately shot down the plane that crossed over into our territory." Syria hardly even complained. They have enough problems and THEY don't want to piss off Israel either. Hezbollah has learned not to piss off Israel either; Israel said Iran was planning to build stuff on the Syrian side and had a general and son of an ex-Hezbollah chief there so they killed them with airstrikes. Hezbollah's response was to shoot a convoy in a disputed region and then declare it a tie. By the way I condemn Israel for acting the bully in some of these situations. I am not glorifying them at all. Just stating facts.

 

[Fern]

The predecessors to Daesh (AQ in Iraq) attacked Jordan first. Such as the woman who was going to be traded for the pilot.

If you don't know even this much, then you should really brush up on history first before pontificating like this.

1. It's easy to claim ISIS is not AQ.

AQ has publicly disavowed ISIS.

AQ and ISIS were fighting each other. They called a truce at end of last year.

Throwing out possibilities is not pontificating. Pontificating means expressing opinions as incontrovertibly true, which I have done.

As for the burning:
-snip-

So mullahs and strict adherents to that interpretation won't be attracted? Not sure that matters.

And ISIS is paying good money to fight with them, not relying on religious fervor necessarily.

Fern

 

[blastingcap]

1. It's easy to claim ISIS is not AQ.

AQ has publicly disavowed ISIS.

AQ and ISIS were fighting each other. They called a truce at end of last year.

Throwing out possibilities is not pontificating. Pontificating means expressing opinions as incontrovertibly true, which I have done.




So mullahs and strict adherents to that interpretation won't be attracted? Not sure that matters.

And ISIS is paying good money to fight with them, not relying on religious fervor necessarily.

Fern

Do you really not know that before Daesh was Daesh (stop calling them anything else, IS just makes them sound more credible and that's what they want to be called so don't call them that; Isis is a girl's name and you offend girls worldwide by calling them that; Isil is ok but best is to call them Daesh because it is a derogatory term that they hate to be called), that it was the Iraqi arm of AQ? AQI has attacked Jordan before. That was back when AQI = Daesh; they had not split up yet. Jordan did not attack Daesh first, it's the other way around. And IIRC Daesh (post-split Daesh) did actually try to attack Jordan earlier but got repelled. Same with Saudi Arabia; Daesh attempted to attack a border post last year and the Saudis kicked Daesh back across the border. Daesh actually managed to do some damage against Iran's border areas last year, but Iran reinforced their borders after that. In fact Iran may have actually crossed into Iraq's Jalawla area with their regular army at one point (not the Shia militias and special forces they already have in Iraq, but the regular army). But Iran wouldn't confirm it for diplomatic reasons.

 

[kage69]

What would we gain by giving Jordan state-of-the-art weaponry, and what do we stand to lose? The Jordanians, first of all, are totally untrained in the use of this equipment. It would take at a minimum months to get them to even basic proficiency, and the added stress of an entirely new form of combat will make it even more difficult for them to fight effectively with these weapons. Armies don't just spring up overnight, and every country has a military culture. You have to train these people, and they have a fundamentally different mindset to western society. Jordanians are Sunni muslims (mostly) , just like ISIS. Many of the top leadership in ISIS are Jordanians, if there was some kind of defection orchestrated by the military leadership (as happened many times in Syria in 2011) where do you think those weapons go? Straight to ISIS. What would ISIS be able to do with a squadron of trained F16 pilots? They are pretty inventive in finding ways to terrorize people, I prefer them to have as few opportunities to acquire western tech as possible.

So much ignorance regarding Jordan's military I don't even know where to start. You sir, have some reading to do.

Contrary to what you seem to have convinced yourself of, the Jordanian Special Forces and Air Force are some of the best in the region. And they should be, they get trained by our SEALs and Delta, they have a JSOC patterned right after ours, and their pilots and leadership have a reputation for being shrewd, as well as pretty up to date on battlefield and intelligence technology.

I find it kind of amazing you can believe the quoted above given Jordan's long standing, intimate relationship with US intelligence and special forces. It's like you've never even heard of KASOTC. You wouldn't be echoing some recent radio sentiments now would ya? It's pretty obvious to me you've never been down over there. The IDF respects them, you should too.

Our friends in Jordan are extremely competent warriors, and you do yourself a disservice to state otherwise. They have all the toys and training they need. Watch.

 

[Ns1]

So much ignorance regarding Jordan's military I don't even know where to start. You sir, have some reading to do.

Contrary to what you seem to have convinced yourself of, the Jordanian Special Forces and Air Force are some of the best in the region. And they should be, they get trained by our SEALs and Delta, JSOC is general is patterned after what the US uses, and their pilots and leadership have a reputation for being shrewd and pretty up to date on battlefield and intelligence technology.

I find it kind of amazing you can believe the quoted above given Jordan's long standing, intimate relationship with US intelligence and special forces. It's like you've never even heard of KASOTC.

Our friends in Jordan are extremely competent warriors, and you do yourself a disservice to state otherwise. They have all the toys and training they need. Watch.

I am pleased to hear this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KASOTC

 

[TechBoyJK]

I for one think that if people think King Ab would let his military become old and rusty, they're kidding themselves.

The man is a star trek fan. This man is always going to want the advanced stuff and will be well aware that he doesn't have it. He's not an idiot. Jordan has a great military for a country which is 1/3 the size of Illinois.

 

[werepossum]

We give Jordan enough technology as it is (block 52 F16s, etc). We won't give them state of the art stuff and Obama has repeatedly ignored calls for him to "man up" and fight or even to give Jordan predator drones, which is something he does that I really like. He ignores people.


What would we gain by giving Jordan state-of-the-art weaponry, and what do we stand to lose? The Jordanians, first of all, are totally untrained in the use of this equipment. It would take at a minimum months to get them to even basic proficiency, and the added stress of an entirely new form of combat will make it even more difficult for them to fight effectively with these weapons. Armies don't just spring up overnight, and every country has a military culture. You have to train these people, and they have a fundamentally different mindset to western society. Jordanians are Sunni muslims (mostly) , just like ISIS. Many of the top leadership in ISIS are Jordanians, if there was some kind of defection orchestrated by the military leadership (as happened many times in Syria in 2011) where do you think those weapons go? Straight to ISIS. What would ISIS be able to do with a squadron of trained F16 pilots? They are pretty inventive in finding ways to terrorize people, I prefer them to have as few opportunities to acquire western tech as possible.


It appears almost nobody besides Hayabusa read my post about Arabs and war. I thought it was informative...

Jordanians are mostly Sunni but also mostly not anything like ISIS, any more than most Christians are like the Lord's Resistance Army. Some are - I went to university with a Jordanian girl who bore a child out of wedlock and could not return to Jordan because she would be murdered by her family to restore their honor - but the vast majority are not. One reason one finds so many Jordanians in ISIS is precisely because that nation is so very far from ISIS' preference of brutal Islamic fundamentalism. Pretty much the same reason one doesn't find all that many Iranians there.

I'm think the Jordanians only really need munitions. ISIS has little in the way of anti-aircraft. They have MANPADS, if we can help Jordan there, fine.

If they're going to go in on foot, maybe some armored vehicles to protect them from IEDs. I hear the Kurds are begging for those since most of their combat losses are from IEDs.

That's nothing we or the Israelis couldn't easily counter if they tried to turn it us, or it fell into the hands of ISIS.

Fern

It's absolutely disgusting that we are giving MRAPs to American police departments rather than to the Kurds.

So much ignorance regarding Jordan's military I don't even know where to start. You sir, have some reading to do.

Contrary to what you seem to have convinced yourself of, the Jordanian Special Forces and Air Force are some of the best in the region. And they should be, they get trained by our SEALs and Delta, they have a JSOC patterned right after ours, and their pilots and leadership have a reputation for being shrewd, as well as pretty up to date on battlefield and intelligence technology.

I find it kind of amazing you can believe the quoted above given Jordan's long standing, intimate relationship with US intelligence and special forces. It's like you've never even heard of KASOTC. You wouldn't be echoing some recent radio sentiments now would ya? It's pretty obvious to me you've never been down over there. The IDF respects them, you should too.

Our friends in Jordan are extremely competent warriors, and you do yourself a disservice to state otherwise. They have all the toys and training they need. Watch.

Well said.

 

[blastingcap]

One reason one finds so many Jordanians in ISIS is precisely because that nation is so very far from ISIS' preference of brutal Islamic fundamentalism.

I'm sorry but could you please explain that sentence? Did you mean "few Jordanians"?

There are actually a very large number of Jordanians within Daesh given how small of a country Jordan is. On the other hand they are right next to Syria so it would have been easier for people to slip through the border than if they had to travel farther distances.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...db4faa-5971-11e4-8264-deed989ae9a2_story.html

 

[oobydoobydoo]

So much ignorance regarding Jordan's military I don't even know where to start. You sir, have some reading to do.

Contrary to what you seem to have convinced yourself of, the Jordanian Special Forces and Air Force are some of the best in the region. And they should be, they get trained by our SEALs and Delta, they have a JSOC patterned right after ours, and their pilots and leadership have a reputation for being shrewd, as well as pretty up to date on battlefield and intelligence technology.

I find it kind of amazing you can believe the quoted above given Jordan's long standing, intimate relationship with US intelligence and special forces. It's like you've never even heard of KASOTC. You wouldn't be echoing some recent radio sentiments now would ya? It's pretty obvious to me you've never been down over there. The IDF respects them, you should too.

Our friends in Jordan are extremely competent warriors, and you do yourself a disservice to state otherwise. They have all the toys and training they need. Watch.

Listen to yourself. I said Jordanian Armed Forces not Special Forces. Their is a HUGE difference between Spec Ops that have been trained specifically to protect King Abdullah and the Regime. That is the real goal of the most effective fighting force in the Jordanian military. The Jordanian military at large has no experience with drones or F22s or any of that stuff, nor do even the marjority of the special forces!

The level of disinformation you are spouting here is criminal. There is almost nothing in common between the IDF and the Jordanian military besides the fact that they are adjacent and are fighting forces. The order of battle is different, the command structure is different, the level of proficiency is different... it's a totally different ballgame. Almost like looking at the US and Mexico. Would you say Mexico is an effective fighting force? They have awesome spec ops too, but that's irrelevant because the military at large is incongruent and unmotivated and untrained. You are totally out of your element, sir, and I suggest you take your trashy tone and psuedoauthoritative doctrine you clearly invented in your own mind and take it somewhere where somebody like me, who actually knows what they are talking about, won't be pained by reading it.


Please go read my thread about "why Arabs Lose Wars", and you can come back and we will discuss this while you are informed. I can tell you haven't read it, because if you had you would realize how ridiculous you sound. I will leave you to it.

 

[kage69]

I am pleased to hear this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KASOTC

Bringing up culture sets me off a little. It's usually done by those with little understanding of the context in which they are trying to apply it, his unaware post being no exception.

Abdullah went to Sandhurst for fucks sake, served in the British Army doing recon for the 13/18th Royal Hussars. Fundamentally different mind set than Western society huh?
Clearly, and it's well illustrated by the woefully inadequate complex they're burdened with. The one with

- 67 training buildings including everything from villas, an embassy, commercial buildings, a town square, office buildings, apartment complexes and just about everything else you would find in a town

- Mock A300 and 737 sized aircraft both with fully outfitted cabins, including targets that stand up out of their seats. There is also a simulated airport tower, tarmac and terminal area.

- Method of entry facility where explosive, mechanical and other forms of breach and entry technologies can be put into practice against different materials and structures.

- A high-rise commando tower for simulating insertions and extractions from a tall buildings, including the use of climbing, repelling and helicopters.

- Driving track for offensive and defensive driving and VVIP mobile protection training
Close Quarters Battle facility.

- K9 training support element for specialized combat dog training, unit integration and sales.

- Explosive ordnance disposal (EOD) training and applications range.

- Centralized and integrated range operations center to monitor and control all audio, video, special effects and target technology.

- 1300 meter to unknown sniper range and a close to 300m range with moving targets, along with multiple combat rifle, pistol and shotgun action ranges.

- Multiple live-fire kill houses.

- Instructor cadre with backgrounds in special operations from around the globe
350 networked day/night thermal cameras with 360° coverage to capture exercises for After Action Review.

- Sound-effect speakers that project hundreds of realistic sounds, including: Shouts, animal noises, crying and gunfire.

- A helicopter pad capable of staging multiple helicopters at once.

- Dining, recreation, lodging, gym and pro shop facilities for hundreds of operators

- Integrated targets including moving and animated targets.

- Special effects, such as: Rooftop explosions, concussion wave cannon, automatic weapons simulator, simulated smells, Fog generator, improvised explosive device (IED) simulation kits.


Good thing they don't have any American tech or training, no? I mean it's not as if the guy running the show over there, in addition to being a Special Forces man, also is well versed in the front line use of tanks and Cobra attack choppers. And running night missions in F-16s. Yeah, the Jordanian military is manned largely by illiterate Bedouin, everyone knows this.

 

[oobydoobydoo]

Jordanians are mostly Sunni but also mostly not anything like ISIS, any more than most Christians are like the Lord's Resistance Army. Some are - I went to university with a Jordanian girl who bore a child out of wedlock and could not return to Jordan because she would be murdered by her family to restore their honor - but the vast majority are not. One reason one finds so many Jordanians in ISIS is precisely because that nation is so very far from ISIS' preference of brutal Islamic fundamentalism. Pretty much the same reason one doesn't find all that many Iranians there.

Is this what you do on this forum, bumble around fumbling with your genitalia while you stamp "good job!" into the keyboard with your sticky palms?

Please, less of this and more of the last part of your last paragraph. Reasoned debate without such nastiness.
admin allisolm

Cute. Really, its cute that you think Jordanians are not like ISIS. It's a testament to how well the media can groom sheep like you. I'll leave you to graze. Baaah sheep... baaa...


In all seriousness... go read a book. You don't know anything about the issue, but you keep typing. ISIS and Jordan are different degrees of oppression, but they both hold the same core ideology. They both read the same Hadiths. Listen to the same Sheiks. I'm not saying Jordan is our outright enemy, but they are not to be trusted. And you cannot pretend they are somehow westerners now that they bombed some people we don't like, that is just asinine.

 

[Ns1]

Please go read my thread about "why Arabs Lose Wars", and you can come back and we will discuss this while you are informed. I can tell you haven't read it, because if you had you would realize how ridiculous you sound. I will leave you to it.

You sound equally ridiculous touting a 15 year old article as the be all/end all. Just FYI.

 

[oobydoobydoo]

You sound equally ridiculous touting a 15 year old article as the be all/end all. Just FYI.

So now the last 15 years of Arab history invalidate the last 3000. LMAO




You guys are too rich. I can't handle it, I'll talk to you tomorrow this is way more than I've ever posted... but please educate yourselves!

 

[Ns1]

So now the last 15 years of Arab history invalidate the last 3000. LMAO

You said that. Not me.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Bringing up culture sets me off a little. It's usually done by those with little understanding of the context in which they are trying to apply it, his unaware post being no exception.

Abdullah went to Sandhurst for fucks sake, served in the British Army doing recon for the 13/18th Royal Hussars. Fundamentally different mind set than Western society huh?
Clearly, and it's well illustrated by the woefully inadequate complex they're burdened with. The one with

- 67 training buildings including everything from villas, an embassy, commercial buildings, a town square, office buildings, apartment complexes and just about everything else you would find in a town

- Mock A300 and 737 sized aircraft both with fully outfitted cabins, including targets that stand up out of their seats. There is also a simulated airport tower, tarmac and terminal area.

- Method of entry facility where explosive, mechanical and other forms of breach and entry technologies can be put into practice against different materials and structures.

- A high-rise commando tower for simulating insertions and extractions from a tall buildings, including the use of climbing, repelling and helicopters.

- Driving track for offensive and defensive driving and VVIP mobile protection training
Close Quarters Battle facility.

- K9 training support element for specialized combat dog training, unit integration and sales.

- Explosive ordnance disposal (EOD) training and applications range.

- Centralized and integrated range operations center to monitor and control all audio, video, special effects and target technology.

- 1300 meter to unknown sniper range and a close to 300m range with moving targets, along with multiple combat rifle, pistol and shotgun action ranges.

- Multiple live-fire kill houses.

- Instructor cadre with backgrounds in special operations from around the globe
350 networked day/night thermal cameras with 360° coverage to capture exercises for After Action Review.

- Sound-effect speakers that project hundreds of realistic sounds, including: Shouts, animal noises, crying and gunfire.

- A helicopter pad capable of staging multiple helicopters at once.

- Dining, recreation, lodging, gym and pro shop facilities for hundreds of operators

- Integrated targets including moving and animated targets.

- Special effects, such as: Rooftop explosions, concussion wave cannon, automatic weapons simulator, simulated smells, Fog generator, improvised explosive device (IED) simulation kits.


Good thing they don't have any American tech or training, no? I mean it's not as if the guy running the show over there, in addition to being a Special Forces man, also is well versed in the front line use of tanks and Cobra attack choppers. Or running night missions in F-16s. Yeah, the Jordanian military is manned largely by illiterate Bedouin, everyone knows this.

I want to go there!~

 

[kage69]

You sound equally ridiculous touting a 15 year old article as the be all/end all. Just FYI.

You know it's funny, after that last steamer he dropped in reply the first thing I thought was 'Damn, this guy is going to double down isn't he? Did he not hear the big news for them? Which, happened in 96! Everything changed for them. Yes they have some outdated tanks, big deal. Jordanian forces are well trained and well taken care of, and I think are more than a match for these goatfucks in Iraq who done fucked up good now.

Jordan's defensive status is a $1.5 billion defense budget in support of 110,700 active front line personnel, 1,321 tanks and 246 aircraft. They are now on an offensive footing, and getting an influx of support in addition to that which they already do.

ISIS is getting up to $3million a day, and is made up of 10k-30k fighters with an assortment of armored vehicles and MANPADS. They're supported by a trickle of foreign fighters and that's it, as not even AQ wants anything to do with these new international pariahs.

Oh, and for those stuck in early 1996 for personal and/or ideological reasons:


Memorandum on Jordan
November 12, 1996
Presidential Determination No. 97–4
Memorandum for the Secretary of State

Subject: Designation of Jordan as a Major Non-NATO Ally

I hereby designate the Hashemite King-dom of Jordan a major non-NATO ally of the United States pursuant to section 517 of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961, as amended, for the purposes of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961, as amended, and the Arms Export Control Act.
You are authorized and directed to publish this determination in the Federal Register.

William J. Clinton


A lot can happen in 20 years. Might want to pull your head out and have a look see sometime.