Is your employer exempt from Obamacare? *UPDATE*

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drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
1
81
anothNext time you think about the health care bill remember its bringing health care to millions of children, its saving families with preexisting conditions from losing everything, it will ultimately allow me to quit my less profitable day job that I get health insurance from and run my two small businesses full time because I will be able to get health care in the open market.

Wrong.

The Obamacare bill doesn't give anyone access to healthcare that did not previously have it. To say otherwise is a flat-out lie. Anyone who is sick can go to the emergency room, and they are not allowed, by law, to turn them away, even for lack of payment.

Obamacare just makes the system more inefficient and more costly for people who actually followed the rules.

My yearly maximum out of pocket is $4000 from my insurance company. I will never have to pay more than $4000 for medical care in a year. My lifetime maximum is $6,000,000. My plan is roughly $350/mo for my wife and myself. It's a PPO, so I can choose my doctor. I'm not very unhealthy, so we don't go to the doctor all that often. I have it in case one of us does need to be hospitalized or have a major operation. Last year, my insurance premiums rose 30%. This year, I expect another 30% or more.

I'm not going to get any extra benefit out of this, and neither is anyone else.

To imply otherwise is to be deliberately deceitful. You think that Obamacare is going to help you with your crappy insurance coverage? It's not. There is nothing in Obamacare about FIXING the problems that cause outrageous costs.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
8
0
Wrong.

The Obamacare bill doesn't give anyone access to healthcare that did not previously have it. To say otherwise is a flat-out lie. Anyone who is sick can go to the emergency room, and they are not allowed, by law, to turn them away, even for lack of payment.

Obamacare just makes the system more inefficient and more costly for people who actually followed the rules.

My yearly maximum out of pocket is $4000 from my insurance company. I will never have to pay more than $4000 for medical care in a year. My lifetime maximum is $6,000,000. My plan is roughly $350/mo for my wife and myself. It's a PPO, so I can choose my doctor. I'm not very unhealthy, so we don't go to the doctor all that often. I have it in case one of us does need to be hospitalized or have a major operation. Last year, my insurance premiums rose 30%. This year, I expect another 30% or more.

I'm not going to get any extra benefit out of this, and neither is anyone else.

To imply otherwise is to be deliberately deceitful. You think that Obamacare is going to help you with your crappy insurance coverage? It's not. There is nothing in Obamacare about FIXING the problems that cause outrageous costs.

How many people are now safe from recission?
How many people are now able to buy insurance regardless of preexisting condition?


anecdotally my health care went up 30 percent three years ago, another 25 percent two years ago, and 14 percent this year...

bases on your comment about the health care bill not affecting costs then we should put you in the wants single payer column right?
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
1
81
How many people are now safe from recission?
How many people are now able to buy insurance regardless of preexisting condition?


anecdotally my health care went up 30 percent three years ago, another 25 percent two years ago, and 14 percent this year...

bases on your comment about the health care bill not affecting costs then we should put you in the wants single payer column right?

First, health insurance != health care. Bottom line. Nobody who didn't have it before now suddenly has access to health care. Period. Non-refutable.

Second, I'm of the opinion that decisions about medicine should be between myself and my doctor. I should be able to negotiate with him how much a procedure is going to cost. Until Medicare goes away, that will never happen. Medicare is the primary cause of high costs of medical care. Before Medicare, medical insurance was MAJOR MEDICAL...i.e. you had it in case something catastrophic happened. Medical insurance should not be needed for a simple doctor's visit. Medicare is the cause of our current woes, and getting rid of Medicare is the solution.

Introducing more irrelevant and unneeded regulation into the system is not the answer. The answer to current problems relating to health insurance is to reduce the reliance on medical insurance.

Changing who pays the final bill doesn't do anything to fix the problem.

So, no, you can't file me under the "wants single payer" category.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
And there, folks, is the Republican dream of poor people dying in ER waiting rooms. If you want a fully capitalist health system, that's what you get.
My dream is that I be free to benefit from good decisions and free to not be penalized for someone else's bad decisions. You can shove your appeals to emotion up your ass, if there is any room left alongside the fascist policies.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,936
3,915
136
My dream is that I be free to benefit from good decisions and free to not be penalized for someone else's bad decisions.

You live in a society with people other than you. You will never free to not be penalized for someone elses bad decisions. Sorry to be the one to break the news to you.

On the plus side, you are free to buy your own island and name yourself High King CycloWizard and forbid anyone else from setting foot in your kingdom.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
So the government passes laws but then exempts their friends from it?

Wow, thats fucking bullshit. Not surprising though.

That's the worst part of all this crap, the establishment of a tiered legal system where some persons and corporations have rights and/or obligations that others don't have - just because.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
You live in a society with people other than you. You will never free to not be penalized for someone elses bad decisions. Sorry to be the one to break the news to you.

On the plus side, you are free to buy your own island and name yourself High King CycloWizard and forbid anyone else from setting foot in your kingdom.
I can be penalized when some idiot rams his car into mine. I can be penalized when someone slashes my tires. But those are completely different than an institutionalization of fascist policy by the very instrument which is nominally in place only to protect me from such penalties.
 

Circlenaut

Platinum Member
Mar 22, 2001
2,175
5
81
I can be penalized when some idiot rams his car into mine. I can be penalized when someone slashes my tires. But those are completely different than an institutionalization of fascist policy by the very instrument which is nominally in place only to protect me from such penalties.

For someone that hates the word fascist you seem to like saying it a lot. I'm done arguing with you loons, we're just going around in circles. You cling to your selfish ideologies and I'll reason with my mind and consider those less fortunate. I'm reached my limit in this thread, adios.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
8
0
First, health insurance != health care. Bottom line. Nobody who didn't have it before now suddenly has access to health care. Period. Non-refutable.

Second, I'm of the opinion that decisions about medicine should be between myself and my doctor. I should be able to negotiate with him how much a procedure is going to cost. Until Medicare goes away, that will never happen. Medicare is the primary cause of high costs of medical care. Before Medicare, medical insurance was MAJOR MEDICAL...i.e. you had it in case something catastrophic happened. Medical insurance should not be needed for a simple doctor's visit. Medicare is the cause of our current woes, and getting rid of Medicare is the solution.

Introducing more irrelevant and unneeded regulation into the system is not the answer. The answer to current problems relating to health insurance is to reduce the reliance on medical insurance.

Changing who pays the final bill doesn't do anything to fix the problem.

So, no, you can't file me under the "wants single payer" category.

So our current woes like the deficit right?

Ok add up how much medicare has added to the current fiscal deficit.

Now add up pointless wars, dept of fatherland security, unpayed for tax cuts and deregulation.

Ya thought so...

CBO just had a report that the final health bill by 2019 will drop the national debt by 124 billion. Saving money is so bad for america..
http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/health.cfm
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
For someone that hates the word fascist you seem to like saying it a lot. I'm done arguing with you loons, we're just going around in circles. You cling to your selfish ideologies and I'll reason with my mind and consider those less fortunate. I'm reached my limit in this thread, adios.
It's ironic that you claim reason when, in reality, your position itself is the definition of an appeal to emotion.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
1
81
So our current woes like the deficit right?

Ok add up how much medicare has added to the current fiscal deficit.

Now add up pointless wars, dept of fatherland security, unpayed for tax cuts and deregulation.

Ya thought so...

CBO just had a report that the final health bill by 2019 will drop the national debt by 124 billion. Saving money is so bad for america..
http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/health.cfm

$124 billion in 10 years?

I can think of a way to drop $1 Trillion in ONE year without compromising ANYTHING. (starts with M and rhymes with edicare)

Also, spending money on something never leads to a reduction in spending. Except in the world of government accounting. This bill WILL cost us money, and it will cost us LOTS of it.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Damn, my employer's not on it. They give us decent benefits, but those are going to go down the drain when Obamacare is fully realized. :(
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Wrong.

The Obamacare bill doesn't give anyone access to healthcare that did not previously have it. To say otherwise is a flat-out lie. Anyone who is sick can go to the emergency room, and they are not allowed, by law, to turn them away, even for lack of payment.

Obamacare just makes the system more inefficient and more costly for people who actually followed the rules.

My yearly maximum out of pocket is $4000 from my insurance company. I will never have to pay more than $4000 for medical care in a year. My lifetime maximum is $6,000,000. My plan is roughly $350/mo for my wife and myself. It's a PPO, so I can choose my doctor. I'm not very unhealthy, so we don't go to the doctor all that often. I have it in case one of us does need to be hospitalized or have a major operation. Last year, my insurance premiums rose 30%. This year, I expect another 30% or more.

I'm not going to get any extra benefit out of this, and neither is anyone else.

To imply otherwise is to be deliberately deceitful. You think that Obamacare is going to help you with your crappy insurance coverage? It's not. There is nothing in Obamacare about FIXING the problems that cause outrageous costs.

People getting health care in ER is one of the problems causing outrageous costs.
 

manimal

Lifer
Mar 30, 2007
13,559
8
0
People getting health care in ER is one of the problems causing outrageous costs.

Its not worth trying to explain this..


For instance...Indiana is a republican state and even had a budget surplus the last few years...guess what? They have a robust system to help needy parents with children with special needs called "First Steps"

Guess what the outcome is? The children get targetted intervention at a early age with OT and PT based on needs. Guess what the net outcome is of this horrible free lunch for undeserving parents?

Yup they require less care as they get older and use less benefits because their problems are treated preventively.

Not to repeat myself but the two states that have robust health care options for the needy and poor-Hawaii and Romneyland...have lowered costs across the board because people don't walk into a emergency room for a cold or worse yet wait for pneumonia to almost kill them..

When my kids were born last year they spent countless days in the NICU at the best NICU in the state of Indiana. There were many babies in there with horrible problems ranging from addiction to extreme malnourishment... I mention these two issues because they were fully preventable. In fact a large percentage of them came in not ever having one visit or a ounce of preventative care....
 

nick1985

Lifer
Dec 29, 2002
27,153
6
81
Wait, so why do they want to opt out? I read this thread again and haven't seen an explanation for why they would want to opt out of the greatest thing since sliced bread.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
1
81
People getting health care in ER is one of the problems causing outrageous costs.

I never said it was a solution to the problem. I simply made the distinction that this bill is not about expanding the coverage of HEALTHCARE, because it's not. It doesn't provide health care to anyone who previously didn't have access to it.

This bill forces people to buy health INSURANCE. BIG difference. Insurance does not provide access to care, as people in MA are now finding out.

This bill also does not do anything to FIX the problems which caused people to turn to emergency services for routine or minor health care issues.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
1
81
Its not worth trying to explain this..


For instance...Indiana is a republican state and even had a budget surplus the last few years...guess what? They have a robust system to help needy parents with children with special needs called "First Steps"

Guess what the outcome is? The children get targetted intervention at a early age with OT and PT based on needs. Guess what the net outcome is of this horrible free lunch for undeserving parents?

Yup they require less care as they get older and use less benefits because their problems are treated preventively.

Not to repeat myself but the two states that have robust health care options for the needy and poor-Hawaii and Romneyland...have lowered costs across the board because people don't walk into a emergency room for a cold or worse yet wait for pneumonia to almost kill them..

When my kids were born last year they spent countless days in the NICU at the best NICU in the state of Indiana. There were many babies in there with horrible problems ranging from addiction to extreme malnourishment... I mention these two issues because they were fully preventable. In fact a large percentage of them came in not ever having one visit or a ounce of preventative care....

The difference is that it is done on the state level, and it does not MANDATE that people purchase a private service from a private company.

Look, if you can't understand the difference between health CARE and health INSURANCE, then you should probably just kill yourself now because you will always be unhappy in life.

There is nothing wrong with state-provided aid for children. Nothing at all. However, no one has yet seriously considered what CAUSED prices of medical care to get so high that medical insurance is virtually required for preventative care. These issues are not addressed in the Obamacare bill and they aren't addressed by the various government-run clinics in various states.

I can't speak for all the causes, but I can certainly tell you what ISN'T a major contributor: not enough people using the services. The government claims that "if only more people used these services, the prices would go down". Anyone that has studied microeconomics for an hour knows that's not the case.

You think that I'm here arguing that we shouldn't help children whose parents don't take them to get their regular checkups and immunizations. That's not what I'm here arguing for. I'm arguing against the current legislation that has been passed that claims to address the issues. It doesn't, and claims that it does are fallatious.

If the legislature really wanted to address the issue, they would get rid of Medicare. That, and that alone would probably reduce health CARE costs by 60-70%, because (once again) prices would not be determined by what the government is willing to pay, but rather by what patients and doctors determine are acceptable prices. The solution to providing preventative care for families that truely cannot afford health care is not to make insurance cheaper for them. That's like trying to cure herpes by using anti-itch cream to mask the symptoms. It doesn't work. The solution is to make healthcare cost less.

The right solution is a government-run hospital that anyone without private insurance can use for a subsidised price. Give them free access to the SERVICE, not the ability to seek the service wherever the hell they want. Then, if people want to use private physicians, they can. Trying to solve a price problem by adding more middlemen is just plain stupid. Insurance and medicare drive health care costs up. Adding more does nothing to reduce the health care costs.

We will likely never see a real solution to this problem because no lawmaker has the balls to take on the insurance industry, and none want to committ political suicide by abolishing Medicare...even if the new legislation would make Medicare irrelevant.
 
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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,163
136
You silly silly people...
You REALLY think insurance companies are on your side when it comes to holding down costs? They look at the bottom line on the balance sheet, and then greed takes over and hikes follow FOR EVERYONE. PLEASE.. I know people here are not THAT stupid.

And.. "opting out" of adding your kid over 18 to your insurance (considering they probably work at McDonalds and have no insurance anyway), is something that YOU DESIRE?
Or eliminating the 1-million $$$ lifetime cap on your coverage is something you OBJECT too?
You realize outrageous healthcare costs have already put many people at risk of hitting that cap, and the loss of their coverage if cancer or some other major illness hits the family.
You have the greedy insurance companies to thank for that.

So go ahead... put your trust in the "for profit" insurance establishment.
Trust them. Take them at their word.
Then... report back to us in, say two years, and tell us how that all worked out for ya...
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
LOL I didn't know the number of businesses was that high.

Any kid who cuts lawns and has a business license is on there. Engineer is smarter than that.:thumbsdown:

Not to mention you are exempt if you're small anyway.

What really matters is employees. Lots of big one here want no part of this.