Is your employer exempt from Obamacare? *UPDATE*

[CycloWizard]

Aren't you quick to label? By throwing logic out for ideology you're the one more likely to fall pray to false dichotomy. I have formulated my opinion out of compassion and the realization that a healthy population is in the best interest of all people. We are a civilized nation. How can we continually preach this to the rest of the world if we don't even hear the pleas from our brothers and sisters? Forget about everything that you have and everything that you believe and for a moment, just a second, but yourself in the shoes of a minimum wage worker with a chronic illness. Tell me can you sympathize with his plea?

You're the one that choose to see this issue in blank and white. You present an irresponsible fool and I a desperate randomly selected because of his genetics. Please, see the shades in between. Don't confuse compassion with fascism and I'll try not to confuse conservatism with selfishness. Certain industries flourish under capitalism but health care is not one of them. The moment financiers rob away the duties of doctors is the moment life becomes a commodity. Tell me, what's the price tag of your well-being?

Fascism is concealed under the guise of compassion when you want to force me to reward those who do not deserve to be rewarded. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, after all. Sounds like you are part of the street crew for this project. You think financiers are the ones putting themselves between patients and doctors? You're an ignorant fool. All of the paperwork which is required for treatment is the result of laws put forth to satisfy people like you who think they understand medicine with their hearts, failing to realize that maybe their minds would make decisions which are better for everyone. Mindless zombies like you will be (if you're not already) the demise of society.

 

[manimal]

Wow, if you truly believe that, the nullification of the Hippocratic oath, we'll be the laughing stock of the world. Tell me, how can you sit there and spout this caustic language? How do you live with yourself?

didnt you hear? Its a false dilemna....

The real dilemna is what do we do with all the dead people when they die from the flu and the common cold. Sure lots of poor women are going to die in child birth so thats less mouths for welfare to feed.

While were at it we should kill off seniors too, cant pay their way and all......

 

[CycloWizard]

Wow, if you truly believe that, the nullification of the Hippocratic oath, we'll be the laughing stock of the world. Tell me, how can you sit there and spout this caustic language? How do you live with yourself?

I live in reality, a place where people make their own decisions and live with the consequences. You think you can change that by penalizing me for someone else's mistakes? You're an idiot. It will take premiums from thousands of people like me to make up for one fat smoker's medical bills. How are we the land of the free when I'm not free to take a small risk to save myself $10k a year in insurance payments when I'm in perfect health? Where is my right to property when my property is mandated to be turned over to the guy slurping down raw bacon and smoking a carton of cigs at the table next to me? That IS fascism, at least according to Merriam-Webster:

a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

I believe in calling a spade a spade and a fascist a fascist, fascist.

 

[CycloWizard]

didnt you hear? Its a false dilemna....

The real dilemna is what do we do with all the dead people when they die from the flu and the common cold. Sure lots of poor women are going to die in child birth so thats less mouths for welfare to feed.

While were at it we should kill off seniors too, cant pay their way and all......

You really are an idiot, aren't you? You're one of those mouth breathers who goes to the ER when he has a cold.

 

[boomerang]

So the government passes laws but then exempts themselves and their friends from it?

Wow, thats fucking bullshit. Not surprising though.

ftfy

 

[Attic]

Wow, if you truly believe that, the nullification of the Hippocratic oath, we'll be the laughing stock of the world. Tell me, how can you sit there and spout this caustic language? How do you live with yourself?

He lives in and understands reality?

 

[Circlenaut]

I live in reality, a place where people make their own decisions and live with the consequences. You think you can change that by penalizing me for someone else's mistakes? You're an idiot. It will take premiums from thousands of people like me to make up for one fat smoker's medical bills. How are we the land of the free when I'm not free to take a small risk to save myself $10k a year in insurance payments when I'm in perfect health? Where is my right to property when my property is mandated to be turned over to the guy slurping down raw bacon and smoking a carton of cigs at the table next to me? That IS fascism, at least according to Merriam-Webster:

I believe in calling a spade a spade and a fascist a fascist, fascist.

If you think gambling with your health is a small risk, then you are the fool. If you insist on putting a label on my opinion then call it socialism not fascism. I'm NOT making a call to stand behind a single leader and this is by no means a severe regimentation. It's beyond me how you view this as fascist.
Merriam-Webster

any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

I'll admit my views on health care are socialist but that doesn't make ME a socialist. I think most industries function just fine under capitalism, heavy industries, services, engineering, construction etc... Even if we desperately need to increase taxes on the top 2% of earners in this country. And since when does health care equate to property rights, what the hell are you smoking? Again you're the fool, if you insist on childish name calling, for thinking that "fat smoker" costs you less under the current system instead of one where everyone has access to health care and preventative medicine.

Lincoln should have let the fucking south secede along with all of you selfish bastards. This nation is irreconcilably divided.

 

[Circlenaut]

Fascism is concealed under the guise of compassion when you want to force me to reward those who do not deserve to be rewarded. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, after all. Sounds like you are part of the street crew for this project. You think financiers are the ones putting themselves between patients and doctors? You're an ignorant fool. All of the paperwork which is required for treatment is the result of laws put forth to satisfy people like you who think they understand medicine with their hearts, failing to realize that maybe their minds would make decisions which are better for everyone. Mindless zombies like you will be (if you're not already) the demise of society.

I'll admit regulating doctors' decisions too much is bad but at least its not in the hands of corporations, whose single purpose is profit, instead of government whose purpose is to serve the people.

 

[manimal]

You really are an idiot, aren't you? You're one of those mouth breathers who goes to the ER when he has a cold.

another mental giant resorting to brick bats when cornered intellectually. You really got me there...



I have actually spent an inordinate amount of time in a hospital this last year and saw first hand the issues in the system when it comes to billing. The wife delivered triplets last december and we spent the next 4 months visiting our son who was in the NICU and almost died 4 times. The cost of his care has totaled over half a million dollars with our out of pocket costs at about 50 grand.

I have spent an average of 10 hours a week getting the billing fixed since they have refused some of his treatments because they can. I had to actually get a lawyer involved because we could have lost our savings and our house if the insurance company had its way...

Next time you think about the health care bill remember its bringing health care to millions of children, its saving families with preexisting conditions from losing everything, it will ultimately allow me to quit my less profitable day job that I get health insurance from and run my two small businesses full time because I will be able to get health care in the open market.

do you understand what a preexisting condition is? I dont think you do.....

do you understand that millions of people have lost their homes and even their lives because they were unable to get health care or were kicked off their coverage?

Try to think outside of your small little world sometime and you may actually learn something. I may be giving your feeble brain too much credit but I am an eternal optimist...

btw mouth breather is pretty funny, seeing as you breath and think out your ass....

 

[KK]

I wonder how many companies applied.

 

[drebo]

I'll admit regulating doctors' decisions too much is bad but at least its not in the hands of corporations, whose single purpose is profit, instead of government whose purpose is to keep themselves in a job at the expense of the people and of society as a whole.

Fixed that for you.

Remember, a politician's first priority is himself. He doesn't give a shit about you personally. He wants to keep himself in office and with as much power as he can.

Career politicians are bad.

Oh, also...what the hell do you think a medical office is? It's a fucking corporation with the single purpose of making profit.

 

[Circlenaut]

Fixed that for you.

Remember, a politician's first priority is himself. He doesn't give a shit about you personally. He wants to keep himself in office and with as much power as he can.

Career politicians are bad.

Oh, also...what the hell do you think a medical office is? It's a fucking corporation with the single purpose of making profit.

I'm not defending government by any means. But at least we have somewhat of a choice in electing politicians and if enough people get pissed off at something then they do something about it. Corporations on the other hand only listens to its shareholders and act based on profit. And if a doctor's single purpose is to make money than he's not an ethical doctor. A person becomes a doctor in order to tend people's medical needs.

 

[KK]

Fixed that for you.

Remember, a politician's first priority is himself. He doesn't give a shit about you personally. He wants to keep himself in office and with as much power as he can.

Career politicians are bad.

Oh, also...what the hell do you think a medical office is? It's a fucking corporation with the single purpose of making profit.

How dare anyone make a profit, especial people in the medical profession. don't they know they are to serve us, to make us healthy, for free. un-american bastards should move out of the country if they don't like it.

 

[drebo]

I'm not defending government by any means. But at least we have somewhat of a choice in electing politicians and if enough people get pissed off at something then they do something about it. Corporations on the other hand only listens to its shareholders and act based on profit. And if a doctor's single purpose is to make money than he's not an ethical doctor. A person becomes a doctor in order to tend people's medical needs.

A person becomes a doctor because they see a need in society that they have the patience to fill and anticipate the rewards of filling that need.

It's no different than any other profession. Sure, there are probably a handful of altruistic doctors out there, but your general family practitioner isn't once of them.

I'm still not understanding why you think that a corporation shouldn't be allowed to make money. I mean, you have a choice as to whether or not you want to patronize that corporation. You seem to think that all corporations are evil and look to fuck over their customers at every turn. That's simply not true. A corporation that doesn't focus on pleasing its customers doesn't last very long.

A little tip for you from first-year business school: corporations view their customers as stakeholders in their organization, too. Without customers, a company is worthless.

Monopolies are against the law (except where the government says they're not). It's not like you don't have a choice in who you want to get medical care from.

 

[waggy]

I'm not defending government by any means. But at least we have somewhat of a choice in electing politicians and if enough people get pissed off at something then they do something about it. Corporations on the other hand only listens to its shareholders and act based on profit. And if a doctor's single purpose is to make money than he's not an ethical doctor. A person becomes a doctor in order to tend people's medical needs.

I thought that way to. then i grew up and entered teh real world.

a doctor becomes a doctor to tend peoples medical needs and make money doing it. he is a business. his main goal is to make money to pay off his loans, his house and make sure his family is well taken care of. sure most will do everything in there power to keep anyone healthy. To say if the doctors single purpose is to make money makes them unethical makes you a idiot.

a doctor is the same as a plumber, electrician or even cook. they are doing a job they are capable of and to make money doing it. some jobs make a lot more then others.

 

[Circlenaut]

I thought that way to. then i grew up and entered teh real world.

a doctor becomes a doctor to tend peoples medical needs and make money doing it. he is a business. his main goal is to make money to pay off his loans, his house and make sure his family is well taken care of. sure most will do everything in there power to keep anyone healthy. To say if the doctors single purpose is to make money makes them unethical makes you a idiot.

a doctor is the same as a plumber, electrician or even cook. they are doing a job they are capable of and to make money doing it. some jobs make a lot more then others.

To imply that a person's single motive is to make money is to imply that they are easily corruptible. I would think a good person would aspire to higher ideals then greed. Having the means to support basic needs and luxuries is fine but the moment a person uses the power of their wealth to inflict harm on others then that's crossing the line. I know it's impossible to regulate this because it's a condition of the mind that's why it's crucial to nurture a society to produce people with good will, compassion and love. What we have in America today, this society of me first and screw the rest, it's just disheartening. What happened to our supposed Christian notions of "love thy neighbors". I find it extremely ironic that it's the christian conservatives that perpetrates this selfish ideology.

 

[potluv]

Gawd, not another Obamacare bashing post

All the righties and haters fought tooth and nail against any real meaningful reform, and we wound up with just what the haters wanted. A half assed solution with mostly repulican ideas and now they call it "Obamacare" and want to repeal it.

All I can say is you fuckers deserve Obamacare so live with it until we are truly ready to solve the problem and adopt a single payer system like other civilized nations have done.

Because at this point going back to the Insurance monopoly where the middle class bends over for 25% increases every year and poor people are just expected to die quietly while insurance execs and doctors groups rake in billions for substandard care ain't gonna fly.

See, heres the problem we have now... Americans aren't civilized people. Civilized people don't just focus on money, whose political party has the most seats, forcing their own citizens to be groped and stripped nude for national security. The USA is more like Idiocracy everyday. Just wait until Black Friday to see how uncivilized Americans truely are.

 

[Generator]

You sure as hell got that right. Alot of fucking cretins who are ill-educated and vicious villains who don't give a god damn about people. Its as if bad things could never happen to you. If you're sick, well you probably deserved it.

"Get a job, get some insurance. You won't get a hand out from me!"

Half of these clowns work for insurance in name only. Slaving away for a wage that is diluted because its all tied up in some middle man privatized profit scheme they are forced to negotiate with. Privatized profit on human beings. Absolutely fucking despicable.

We pay the most, get the least. You would think having a healthy neighbor would be in your best interest. Nah, not in this country. Go fuck yourself pal. Just rotten, rotten people in this country.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

You sure as hell got that right. Alot of fucking cretins who are ill-educated and vicious villains who don't give a god damn about people. Its as if bad things could never happen to you. If you're sick, well you probably deserved it.

"Get a job, get some insurance. You won't get a hand out from me!"

Half of these clowns work for insurance in name only. Slaving away for a wage that is diluted because its all tied up in some middle man privatized profit scheme they are forced to negotiate with. Privatized profit on human beings. Absolutely fucking despicable.

We pay the most, get the least. You would think having a healthy neighbor would be in your best interest. Nah, not in this country. Go fuck yourself pal. Just rotten, rotten people in this country.

Yeah, I agree we have some rotten rotten people in this country. They believe it's ok to take from others by force of the gov't. They want want want so they take take take and then call their victims names. Sad Sad Sad...

 

[Circlenaut]

Yeah, I agree we have some rotten rotten people in this country. They believe it's ok to take from others by force of the gov't. They want want want so they take take take and then call their victims names. Sad Sad Sad...

We already have one of the lowest tax rate in the world and this period that we're in now boasts some of the lowest rates in the history of this country. Everyone has a duty to pay taxes and it's the people's and government's right to make sure the nation is taxed enough to support the common good. Try not paying your taxes come April, lets see what the taxman has to say. No one is stealing from you we're just making sure everyone pays their fair share to keep this nation and its people afloat.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

We already have one of the lowest tax rate in the world and this period that we're in now boasts some of the lowest rates in the history of this country. Everyone has a duty to pay taxes and it's the people's and government's right to make sure the nation is taxed enough to support the common good. Try not paying your taxes come April, lets see what the taxman has to say. No one is stealing from you we're just making sure everyone pays their fair share to keep this nation and its people afloat.

blah blah blah common good... blah blah blah.

Yes, we have to pay taxes - I'm not saying we shouldn't. However, it is stealing when certain people pay different rates on an earned dollar - AND when some don't pay at all yet continue to demand more and more.
I have zero problem with taxes that are used for Constitutionally mandated items - however, we are FAR beyond the scope of the Constitution.

 

[CycloWizard]

If you think gambling with your health is a small risk, then you are the fool. If you insist on putting a label on my opinion then call it socialism not fascism. I'm NOT making a call to stand behind a single leader and this is by no means a severe regimentation. It's beyond me how you view this as fascist.
Merriam-Webster

You can't understand a simple word, even when the definition is supplied directly. Please tell me what part of this definition does not apply to your statements in this thread: "fascist: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control." And I think that gambling with my healthcare is a small risk because I understand math. I know that there is less than a 1% chance I'll spend as much on healthcare this year as I'm now legally required to spend on insurance. That's $10k I'll never see again. Meanwhile, the interest on my student loans (another foolish venture I undertook to better myself while subsidizing others' education) will keep piling up.

I'll admit my views on health care are socialist but that doesn't make ME a socialist. I think most industries function just fine under capitalism, heavy industries, services, engineering, construction etc... Even if we desperately need to increase taxes on the top 2% of earners in this country. And since when does health care equate to property rights, what the hell are you smoking? Again you're the fool, if you insist on childish name calling, for thinking that "fat smoker" costs you less under the current system instead of one where everyone has access to health care and preventative medicine.

Lincoln should have let the fucking south secede along with all of you selfish bastards. This nation is irreconcilably divided.

It makes you a fascist, not a socialist. That's by definition. If you don't like being a fascist, I recommend changing your views to those of a non-fascist. The fat smoker chooses to raise his healthcare costs by engaging in risky behavior, so why should I be forced to foot the bill just to possibly somehow lower his costs if he is compliant with the non-mandatory preventative care he will probably choose not to utilize? You're an idealist who lives on another planet. Healthcare infringes on property rights when someone like you thinks he has a right to my property to render healthcare for someone else. If living in reality makes me a selfish bastard, so be it.

I'll admit regulating doctors' decisions too much is bad but at least its not in the hands of corporations, whose single purpose is profit, instead of government whose purpose is to serve the people.

What is this thread about????? Can you even read? This thread is about corporations who have given money to politicians to be exempted from laws. Thus, the politicians who you hold in such high esteem are being paid to render these exemptions. That payment is pure profit. The corruption of government is inevitable and hardly new, except perhaps to you.

 

[CycloWizard]

You sure as hell got that right. Alot of fucking cretins who are ill-educated and vicious villains who don't give a god damn about people. Its as if bad things could never happen to you. If you're sick, well you probably deserved it.

"Get a job, get some insurance. You won't get a hand out from me!"

Half of these clowns work for insurance in name only. Slaving away for a wage that is diluted because its all tied up in some middle man privatized profit scheme they are forced to negotiate with. Privatized profit on human beings. Absolutely fucking despicable.

We pay the most, get the least. You would think having a healthy neighbor would be in your best interest. Nah, not in this country. Go fuck yourself pal. Just rotten, rotten people in this country.

Allow me to summarize your position: "Palliative palliative, ought to be just so! Shame! Shame! Bwargh!" You know, someone wrote a book about people like you around 60 years ago - it reads more like a prophecy than a work of fiction at this point.

 

[CycloWizard]

another mental giant resorting to brick bats when cornered intellectually. You really got me there...

I have actually spent an inordinate amount of time in a hospital this last year and saw first hand the issues in the system when it comes to billing. The wife delivered triplets last december and we spent the next 4 months visiting our son who was in the NICU and almost died 4 times. The cost of his care has totaled over half a million dollars with our out of pocket costs at about 50 grand.

I have spent an average of 10 hours a week getting the billing fixed since they have refused some of his treatments because they can. I had to actually get a lawyer involved because we could have lost our savings and our house if the insurance company had its way...

Next time you think about the health care bill remember its bringing health care to millions of children, its saving families with preexisting conditions from losing everything, it will ultimately allow me to quit my less profitable day job that I get health insurance from and run my two small businesses full time because I will be able to get health care in the open market.

do you understand what a preexisting condition is? I dont think you do.....

do you understand that millions of people have lost their homes and even their lives because they were unable to get health care or were kicked off their coverage?

Try to think outside of your small little world sometime and you may actually learn something. I may be giving your feeble brain too much credit but I am an eternal optimist...

btw mouth breather is pretty funny, seeing as you breath and think out your ass....

What do you think would have happened with your son if he had been born in a nation which had a healthcare system similar to the one you want? They would have let him die. Try thinking about the benefits of the US healthcare system some time before spewing your ignorant vitriol towards me. I've lived in other countries and know the difference. I work in one of the best medical schools in the world, which also happens to reside in the US, just like all of the rest of the best medical schools in the world. Where do you think the ideas and technology required to save your son's life came from? Did a system like the one you want fund that innovation? You live in a fantasy world. If you want to fix the billing system, then by all means do so. The problem is that Obamacare did absolutely NOTHING to fix it - it will simply increase costs. You're so hard up that you're still living in Carmel too, huh? Looks like the US medical system has taken everything from you so that you can barely make ends meet while saving your son's life and still enabling you to live in one of the wealthiest suburbs in the country. Pathetic.

 

[dainthomas]

False dilemma. We could simply repeal laws requiring hospitals to foot the bill for stabilizing patients who can't afford to pay for the treatment due to their own poor life choices.

And there, folks, is the Republican dream of poor people dying in ER waiting rooms. If you want a fully capitalist health system, that's what you get.