Is your employer exempt from Obamacare? *UPDATE*

[boomerang]

111 companies and growing.

http://www.hhs.gov/ociio/regulations/approved_applications_for_waiver.html

Various unions, insurers, Dish Network, grocery chains, restaurants and so on.

It's so good, everybody wants out.

Edit: Doubled to 222 companies in less than a month.

 

[Throckmorton]

The fact that insurance companies don't want the annual limits removed and are forcing employers to get exemptions means that there are a LOT of people who exceed those limits and lose a LOT of money even though they have insurance. What was the point of insurance again?

BTW, do hospitals get to "opt out" of treating people who have hit their limit and therefore won't be able to pay? Will public ERs be able to "opt out" of treating emergency cases where the patient has hit their limit or will taxpayers be able to "opt out" of paying the tab?

 

[Vic Vega]

Yes, my company is listed, thank god. They were predicting our premiums would DOUBLE before we became exempt.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Captain Elliots Party Boats! Woohoo!

 

[nick1985]

No, I'm not an SEIU member

 

[2Xtreme21]

What's "Obamacare"?

 

[Engineer]

111 companies and growing.

http://www.hhs.gov/ociio/regulations/approved_applications_for_waiver.html

Various unions, insurers, Dish Network, grocery chains, restaurants and so on.

It's so good, everybody wants out.

Interesting. Everybody = 111 out of 27,110,362 firms (as of 2007 from US Census). Pretty much everybody, I guess.

 

[CycloWizard]

The fact that insurance companies don't want the annual limits removed and are forcing employers to get exemptions means that there are a LOT of people who exceed those limits and lose a LOT of money even though they have insurance. What was the point of insurance again?

BTW, do hospitals get to "opt out" of treating people who have hit their limit and therefore won't be able to pay? Will public ERs be able to "opt out" of treating emergency cases where the patient has hit their limit or will taxpayers be able to "opt out" of paying the tab?

What do you think will happen to premiums if the upward cap on all plans is removed? They will go up. What is wrong with my choosing to buy a plan with a limit if it costs a lot less?

 

[nick1985]

What's "Obamacare"?

http://tinyurl.com/yghf8a8

 

[charrison]

Interesting. Everybody = 111 out of 27,110,362 firms (as of 2007 from US Census). Pretty much everybody, I guess.

Which goes bacf\k to, if you have enough clout in DC you can get whatever rules you want.

 

[Throckmorton]

What do you think will happen to premiums if the upward cap on all plans is removed? They will go up. What is wrong with my choosing to buy a plan with a limit if it costs a lot less?

What's wrong with choosing liability auto insurance that has a $30,000 cap? After all it's unlikely you'll hit anybody with a car worth over $30,000 right?

Either the number of cases where customers greatly exceed the caps are miniscule, in which case it doesn't matter and outlawing caps only makes a small profit difference--- Or the number of customers exceeding the caps is huge, and insurance companies really have to double rates (LOL) to keep up with the regulation, in which case a lot of people aren't really insured by "insurance".

The most important lesson from all this is that private insurance for healthcare, life and death, is total bullshit.

 

[Throckmorton]

No one plans on needing insurance in excess of the cap, so when your employer offers you a job with capped insurance you either say "Fuck you, I'm not taking this job I'll take my chances along with the other 10% unemployed and not have insurance anyway" or "OK, I probably won't need more than the cap". Then you get cancer, sucks to be you.

The typical rightist response is "you can buy your own insurance". Right, I'm sure the middle class can afford to forefeit a huge chunk of their earnings in an age of declining real incomes

Employer provided private health insurance makes absolutely no sense. The system inherently forces you to accept the risk of bankruptcy. Or die.

 

[boomerang]

No, I'm not an SEIU member

The SEIU being on the list is a real kick in the teeth isn't it? Those that contributed the most towards the implementation of Obamacare seeking to be relieved of its burdens. Priceless.

 

[CycloWizard]

What's wrong with choosing liability auto insurance that has a $30,000 cap? After all it's unlikely you'll hit anybody with a car worth over $30,000 right?

Either the number of cases where customers greatly exceed the caps are miniscule, in which case it doesn't matter and outlawing caps only makes a small profit difference--- Or the number of customers exceeding the caps is huge, and insurance companies really have to double rates (LOL) to keep up with the regulation, in which case a lot of people aren't really insured by "insurance".

The most important lesson from all this is that private insurance for healthcare, life and death, is total bullshit.

Terrible analogy. The bottom line is that caps give companies finite exposure to risk. Removing that cap makes the maximum exposure infinite. This will raise premiums and/or go out of business. You seem fine with this, however, because you don't understand the fundamentals of our nation's government (or, perhaps, what our government was intended to be), you just don't understand how insurance works, and/or you think money grows on trees.

 

[CycloWizard]

The SEIU being on the list is a real kick in the teeth isn't it? Those that contributed the most towards the implementation of Obamacare seeking to be relieved of its burdens. Priceless.

Imagine - using the government as a weapon to give you a competitive advantage against your competition. Surely the most ethical congress in history, combined with the most transparent executive branch in history, is above such nonsense. Hehehe.

 

[Throckmorton]

Terrible analogy. The bottom line is that caps give companies finite exposure to risk. Removing that cap makes the maximum exposure infinite. This will raise premiums and/or go out of business. You seem fine with this, however, because you don't understand the fundamentals of our nation's government (or, perhaps, what our government was intended to be), you just don't understand how insurance works, and/or you think money grows on trees.

I understand how insurance works.

If there are enough people who exceed those caps that it raises the actual cost to insurers, then the caps are too low.

Of course the risk in insuring an individual goes up if you remove a cap, but we aren't talking about individual insurance. We mandated that everybody be insured. That was the whole point, and that is why the mandate used to be part of the Republican platform.

Keep in mind that just because there's a cap doesn't mean no one has to pay the amount above the cap. We don't let people die because they've used up all their "insurance". Well, individuals can and do choose to not be treated, so there is self rationing I guess.

 

[ebaycj]

I LOL'd at number 81.

81. CIGNA 9/17/2010 9/26/2010 265,000 9/30/2010 9/30/2010


Really? One would imagine they get VERY inexpensive health coverage, since, you know, that's their business and all.

 

[CycloWizard]

I understand how insurance works.

If there are enough people who exceed those caps that it raises the actual cost to insurers, then the caps are too low.

Of course the risk in insuring an individual goes up if you remove a cap, but we aren't talking about individual insurance. We mandated that everybody be insured. That was the whole point, and that is why the mandate used to be part of the Republican platform.

Keep in mind that just because there's a cap doesn't mean no one has to pay the amount above the cap. We don't let people die because they've used up all their "insurance". Well, individuals can and do choose to not be treated, so there is self rationing I guess.

Insurance works because companies are allowed to employ actuarial principles to determine their estimated costs per enrollee and set their prices accordingly. Caps allow them to limit exposure so that they can turn a profit. No cap means unlimited exposure. If you want a plan with no cap, you should plan on paying accordingly. If you force companies to offer all plans with no caps, then their exposure goes through the roof and premiums must follow for insurers to maintain solvency.

When premiums rise high enough to cover infinite exposure, those prices will be too high for most people to afford them. Thus, those people will not be able to buy insurance at all now instead of being able to by a capped plan. Who will pay for their care then? When most enrollees can no longer afford their plans, the insurance companies will fail. Who will pick up the tab then? I suspect the latter case is your end goal, and the goal of those passing this legislation. Only someone horribly myopic could miss this inevitable outcome. The disingenuous nature of the legislation is primarily what I object to, as it is nothing but a roundabout way to end up at a goal that very few of congress' constituents support (far fewer even than supported this POS bill). If you don't think that this outcome is inevitable, you absolutely do not understand how insurance works.

 

[manimal]

Insurance works because companies are allowed to employ actuarial principles to determine their estimated costs per enrollee and set their prices accordingly. Caps allow them to limit exposure so that they can turn a profit. No cap means unlimited exposure. If you want a plan with no cap, you should plan on paying accordingly. If you force companies to offer all plans with no caps, then their exposure goes through the roof and premiums must follow for insurers to maintain solvency.

When premiums rise high enough to cover infinite exposure, those prices will be too high for most people to afford them. Thus, those people will not be able to buy insurance at all now instead of being able to by a capped plan. Who will pay for their care then? When most enrollees can no longer afford their plans, the insurance companies will fail. Who will pick up the tab then? I suspect the latter case is your end goal, and the goal of those passing this legislation. Only someone horribly myopic could miss this inevitable outcome. The disingenuous nature of the legislation is primarily what I object to, as it is nothing but a roundabout way to end up at a goal that very few of congress' constituents support (far fewer even than supported this POS bill). If you don't think that this outcome is inevitable, you absolutely do not understand how insurance works.

bigger pools with many youngsters who never need anything....see Hawaii and Romneycare..

 

[Throckmorton]

bigger pools with many youngsters who never need anything....see Hawaii and Romneycare..

Exactly. That's the point of the MANDATE.


Unfortunately we still have this stupid employer system (what does your job have to do with healthcare?). So of course the risk for a smaller business goes up, and the mandate doesn't offset that because all those employees were insured anyway.

But don't kid yourself. Every one of those insurance companies is going to get a load of low risk young healthy people, which will offset the risk of having to pay for someone who gets cancer or some other costly disease. But there is nothing stopping them from raising their rates to get rid of a single high risk customer or a small business.

 

[manimal]

Exactly. That's the point of the MANDATE.


Unfortunately we still have this stupid employer system (what does your job have to do with healthcare?). So of course the risk for a smaller business goes up, and the mandate doesn't offset that because all those employees were insured anyway.

But don't kid yourself. Every one of those insurance companies is going to get a load of low risk young healthy people, which will offset the risk of having to pay for someone who gets cancer or some other costly disease. But there is nothing stopping them from raising their rates to get rid of a single high risk customer or a small business.

this and the 85 cents rule should keep costs in the end in check, public option would have been easier...

 

[rudder]

It's so good, everybody wants out.

But the only ones able to get out have connections to the dems.... at least for now.

 

[CycloWizard]

bigger pools with many youngsters who never need anything....see Hawaii and Romneycare..

Ah, so it's my job to subsidize healthcare for the smoker down the street who eats a pound of bacon with every meal? Seems appropriate. I'll think about how fair that is while on my morning jog and eating Raisin Bran for breakfast. Maybe you guys should take a course in statistics rather than simply parroting what your "betters" sent you in your e-mail this morning. Or, you could simply admit that this is just another way for the douchebags of your generation to take everything from my generation at the expense of our future opportunities.

 

[nick1985]

Still trying to figure it out...if obamacare is so amazing, why are they opting out?

 

[EagleKeeper]

still trying to figure it out...if obamacare is so amazing, why are they opting out?

costs