Is this article racist?

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Take a look at the UN, or the US government, or the Western acting business. Other than the standard cookie cutter martial arts flicks there are very few serious movies with Asians in them.

But those fields have a lot to do with looks and image. Politics and acting are big popularity contests. Asians look much different than most people in the US and as a result they might not become as popular as someone who "looks the part".

Also, in politics height has a lot to do with it and most Asians are short. Nearly all US presidents are pretty tall. A guy like Napoleon might have the ability for the job, but his stature will guarantee that he doesn't "presidential".

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Eh? I see very few Asians in the uppermost reaches of Western society. Politics, acting, science etc. On average they are above average but as far as the top level goes they really haven't made a dent.

Take a look at NASA. Or the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

Take a look at the UN, or the US government, or the Western acting business. Other than the standard cookie cutter martial arts flicks there are very few serious movies with Asians in them.

Stop bringing up Western acting business. How many caucasian actors are in Films in Asia?

you are the one with the ubermensch ideology if you are only using Western movies as a mark of success.

And even in Western Movies, ideas are increasingly taken from asian film. Look at the recent influx of Japanese horror to american films.

Look at the influence of HK gangster cinema on Tarantino. Look at the influence of Ghost in the Shell and anime in general on the Matrix.

Ok first of all I like Bollywood movies.

Second of all you have a real superiority complex. The Matrix has nothing to do with The Ghost in the whatever. It was based on a book written by a black woman and actually has a good deal of philosophy.

As for the recent influx of Japanese horror... Thats sort of unfortunate because they all sucked except for the Ring. And that was an average film at best.

Let me guess you are asian?

 

[EmperorIQ]

Originally posted by: ivol07
First off, I am a Mexican and went to school in Alhambra. I didn't go to AHS I went to Mark Keppel HS and graduated in 96.

When reading this article you also have to know the history of that High School and of that city and the cities around it. Alhambra, Monterey Park, Rosemead all used to be primarily Hispanic areas. In the late 80s throughout the 90s Asians started coming in by the freaking thousands. Just FLOODED the area. This obviously caused some major racial tension between the established people in the area and the "New People" who are coming and "invading" their city. I remember race fights at MKHS all the time. So keep in mind that racial tension is already high at that school and in that area.

With that in mind I would say the article is not untrue. I just don't think the people that it was being released to, High School Students, are mature enough to understand that something isn't racist just because it's negative against a certain race. I know that if an article like that would have come out at MKHS when I was going there a lot of my friends would have been very upset. Fighting mad. Not because they were Dumb Mexicans, but because they were only 16 and kids.

That being said I would also disagree with certain parts of the article. Just because you don't succeed in high school does not automatically mean you are going to be a blue collar failure in life. I'm not saying it will help, but it doesn't mean auto life failure either. I know more than a few Mexicans from my class that didn't do good in High School that are doing great in real life. I also know of a few Asians that were great in High School that didn't do anything with their lives.

this is very very true, i also live in that area and the racial tension between latinos and asians are crazy! on a side note, i disagree with your tone on "Asians started coming in by the freaking thousands. Just FLOODED the area." still carry a little bit of that tension with you?

 

[PunDogg]

he speaks the truth, i mean, there are a ton of really smart latinos, but when you think of smart in school u think of asians, its a stereotype, but some stereotypes have bases in the truth

Dogg

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Give Asians a generation or two in the US and they'll be as big as slackers as the rest of the American population.

I don't agree. Its been quite a few generations and somehow I don't see this happen. While the number of asian slackers might increase due to general population increase, I think you will still see a disproportionate number of asians at the top.

Eh? I see very few Asians in the uppermost reaches of Western society. Politics, acting, science etc. On average they are above average but as far as the top level goes they really haven't made a dent. Unless you consider Indians Asians, which unfortunately many people do here.

I really don't like this ubermensche idea lot of Asians have as well... "We are smarter on average than Whites, Indians, Arabs etc.!!!"

the limited number in politics is because we were sh*t on longer then you know..well that and simple numbers. for a long time immigration was frozen, and before that it was only men allowed long after the ending of slavery we were still not allowed to own land, or gain citizenship. hell a white woman marrying an asian would lose her citizenship

long after blacks had the ability to enter politics thanks to citizenship..we had nothing because of stuff like the chinese exclusion act denied us citizenship.

1882 Chinese Exclusion Act passed. This federal law prohibits immigration of Chinese laborers for ten years; denies the right of naturalization to Chinese immigrants already in the U.S.http://smccd.net/accounts/helton/asianlegis.htm

 

[EmperorIQ]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Give Asians a generation or two in the US and they'll be as big as slackers as the rest of the American population.

I don't agree. Its been quite a few generations and somehow I don't see this happen. While the number of asian slackers might increase due to general population increase, I think you will still see a disproportionate number of asians at the top.

Eh? I see very few Asians in the uppermost reaches of Western society. Politics, acting, science etc. On average they are above average but as far as the top level goes they really haven't made a dent. Unless you consider Indians Asians, which unfortunately many people do here.

I really don't like this ubermensche idea lot of Asians have as well... "We are smarter on average than Whites, Indians, Arabs etc.!!!"

i'm asian and I don't have that idea that asians are better.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
The Matrix has nothing to do with The Ghost in the whatever. It was based on a book written by a black woman and actually has a good deal of philosophy.

I know some crazy black woman tried to claim that she wrote the book the Matrix is based on and she's suing, but I haven't heard any real proof that her claims are true.

 

[amoeba]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Eh? I see very few Asians in the uppermost reaches of Western society. Politics, acting, science etc. On average they are above average but as far as the top level goes they really haven't made a dent.

Take a look at NASA. Or the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

Take a look at the UN, or the US government, or the Western acting business. Other than the standard cookie cutter martial arts flicks there are very few serious movies with Asians in them.

Stop bringing up Western acting business. How many caucasian actors are in Films in Asia?

you are the one with the ubermensch ideology if you are only using Western movies as a mark of success.

And even in Western Movies, ideas are increasingly taken from asian film. Look at the recent influx of Japanese horror to american films.

Look at the influence of HK gangster cinema on Tarantino. Look at the influence of Ghost in the Shell and anime in general on the Matrix.

Ok first of all I like Bollywood movies.

Second of all you have a real superiority complex. The Matrix has nothing to do with The Ghost in the whatever. It was based on a book written by a black woman and actually has a good deal of philosophy.

As for the recent influx of Japanese horror... Thats sort of unfortunate because they all sucked except for the Ring. And that was an average film at best.

Let me guess you are asian?

Again, I'm glad you like Bollywood movies. I don't have a superiority complex. I started out by saying that asians are typically disproportionately at the top academically in this country. This is a fact if you go by test scores, percentage of college graduates, etc etc...

You came in and pointed out all these fields in which asians aren't strong in and somehow accuse me of having an ubermensch ideology.

I merely point out that your use of western film and media as your standard of excellence and judge of the success of a race makes your opinion more biased than mine.

I also point out that even in this medium in which you feel that asians are underrepresented, there are many traces of asian influence.

You retort by giving your personal opinion on the examples I presented which does not refute my point at all.

For the record The Matrix is based on alot of things but it definitely takes a lot of influence from anime. This can not be denied.

And please stop accusing me of having a superiority complex. I have no where demonstrated this. Where have I said asians are better or smarter?

All I said in this whole thread are asians that come to North America are typically the cream of the crop in asia so it stands to reason that they do well.
That combined with the age old mentality of study hard and you will succeed as well as extreme parental pressure leads to academic success.

It must be easy to dismiss my points with superiority complex attacks and off topic discussions on your movie preferences.

 

[zerocool1]

Originally posted by: Heisenberg

Originally posted by: Mrvile
Asians generally use cable or DSL internet while hispanics hook up wires to hamster wheels and tell them to run like they're crossing the border.

I laughed at that. I felt bad, but I laughed at it.

me too.
About the article, I think it is very much an important issue. I'm not sure if it is racist or not but it is a social commentary. I'm a first generation teenager born in the US with family from India. I see the emphasis my parents put on education when I was a child and even now. But now I see the importance. I do see a difference in the grades and participation of other minorities aside from asians. Within the caucassian (SP?) group it is sort of splintered, there are the people in both categories-parents that take an active role and parents that don't. It makes a huge difference, but it obviously isn't the only thing. People get outside of that cycle. You see more and more minorities in places of higher education because of loans and grants such education is more accessible.

just my $.02

 

[ivol07]

Originally posted by: EmperorIQ

Originally posted by: ivol07
First off, I am a Mexican and went to school in Alhambra. I didn't go to AHS I went to Mark Keppel HS and graduated in 96.

When reading this article you also have to know the history of that High School and of that city and the cities around it. Alhambra, Monterey Park, Rosemead all used to be primarily Hispanic areas. In the late 80s throughout the 90s Asians started coming in by the freaking thousands. Just FLOODED the area. This obviously caused some major racial tension between the established people in the area and the "New People" who are coming and "invading" their city. I remember race fights at MKHS all the time. So keep in mind that racial tension is already high at that school and in that area.

With that in mind I would say the article is not untrue. I just don't think the people that it was being released to, High School Students, are mature enough to understand that something isn't racist just because it's negative against a certain race. I know that if an article like that would have come out at MKHS when I was going there a lot of my friends would have been very upset. Fighting mad. Not because they were Dumb Mexicans, but because they were only 16 and kids.

That being said I would also disagree with certain parts of the article. Just because you don't succeed in high school does not automatically mean you are going to be a blue collar failure in life. I'm not saying it will help, but it doesn't mean auto life failure either. I know more than a few Mexicans from my class that didn't do good in High School that are doing great in real life. I also know of a few Asians that were great in High School that didn't do anything with their lives.

this is very very true, i also live in that area and the racial tension between latinos and asians are crazy! on a side note, i disagree with your tone on "Asians started coming in by the freaking thousands. Just FLOODED the area." still carry a little bit of that tension with you?

I probably do. When you've lived with those overtones for so many years it doesn't just go away. But I did marry an asian girl, so that makes anything I say not racist. Well, if you consider Filipino Asian.

 

[zerocool1]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: DrPizza

It's not a matter of ability - that's been demonstrated in plenty of studies.

This is a point of contention though, as numerous tests throughout the years have pointed out that there is in fact a difference in cognitive ability among races. Not every race has the same average IQ. It varies substantially along racial lines.

Whether you want to test the IQ's of 5 year olds who just started school, 15 year olds, SAT scores or aptitude scores of adults, there are very consistent differences among races. Of course people will try to present a politically correct reason for all of this, but if you look at SAT scores or any other mental aptitude test you will find that the scores closely follow the average IQ of that group. The group with the highest IQ consistently gets the highest SAT scores, ACT scores, just about every score.

This isn't politically correct to talk about, but it is true.

not really, because of how IQ tests are designed and certain concepts of statistics.
IQ tests are normalized and when you take sample sizes when n>30 the distribution becomes closer and closer to a normal distribution.

Originally posted by: amoeba
another reason for asian american scholastic success can be attributed to the immigration requirements for many asians to enter the US.

often, current generation asian american high school students are the children of parents who came to the US on grants and grad school student visas or H1-B work visas, thus the less competent asian students don't really show up here that often.

I know what you mean, its the cream of the crop coming to the US so yea....

 

[no0b]

not rascist but makes use of rash generalizations

 

[TheDude20165]

If someone finds it offensive, you have a problem. That's just the way it is today.

 

[Landroval]

It's inappropriate. Not to mention, a lot of Asians are brown... and a fair number of Hispanics are white... and some white people are more pinkish or yellow. So she clearly has not be studying enough, she must have Hispanic parents.

 

[EyeMWing]

We had something like that written about cheerleaders versus other sports; the reaction was MUCH MORE VIOLENT. Of course, I suspect that may be because it featured a photo the sports section's feature writer (and author of this story) wearing a cheer uniform and doing some weakass jump-trick-thing with pompoms

As a result, people actually READ the paper now. It was the perfect stunt. However, readership among the rednecks is still low, so they brought in an experienced asshole as an associate writer (aka me) and ran an article slamming NASCAR.

It comes out on Monday.

 

[ivol07]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing
We had something like that written about cheerleaders versus other sports; the reaction was MUCH MORE VIOLENT. Of course, I suspect that may be because it featured a photo the sports section's feature writer (and author of this story) wearing a cheer uniform and doing some weakass jump-trick-thing with pompoms

As a result, people actually READ the paper now. It was the perfect stunt. However, readership among the rednecks is still low, so they brought in an experienced asshole as an associate writer (aka me) and ran an article slamming NASCAR.

It comes out on Monday.

Article Slamming Nascar + Rednecks = Your House on fire while people driving away yell "YEE-HAW!"

 

[Zebo]

Asians work too hard that's why. Need to stop a smell the roses.

I'd rather have hispanic parents than asain that's for sure.

Not racist, but also serves no purpose but to divide. I mean what's the point? Want Hispanic parnets to change? Why force your ideals on them? Want Asian parents to change? I doubt it from reading that.

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: mugs
I'd rather have latino parents than asian parents.

That's the dumbest comment I have heard today.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Give Asians a generation or two in the US and they'll be as big as slackers as the rest of the American population.

I don't agree. Its been quite a few generations and somehow I don't see this happen. While the number of asian slackers might increase due to general population increase, I think you will still see a disproportionate number of asians at the top.

Eh? I see very few Asians in the uppermost reaches of Western society. Politics, acting, science etc. On average they are above average but as far as the top level goes they really haven't made a dent. Unless you consider Indians Asians, which unfortunately many people do here.

I really don't like this ubermensche idea lot of Asians have as well... "We are smarter on average than Whites, Indians, Arabs etc.!!!"

the limited number in politics is because we were sh*t on longer then you know..well that and simple numbers. for a long time immigration was frozen, and before that it was only men allowed long after the ending of slavery we were still not allowed to own land, or gain citizenship. hell a white woman marrying an asian would lose her citizenship

long after blacks had the ability to enter politics thanks to citizenship..we had nothing because of stuff like the chinese exclusion act denied us citizenship.

1882 Chinese Exclusion Act passed. This federal law prohibits immigration of Chinese laborers for ten years; denies the right of naturalization to Chinese immigrants already in the U.S.http://smccd.net/accounts/helton/asianlegis.htm

I'm just jumping in here to say something (I dont want to get involved in Proletariat's supremacist like arguments), but Indians weren't even allowed to become US citizens until the 1950s or so. If you married one, you lost your citizenship. You should look up newspaper articles about then, they're pretty funny. All this crazy stuff about the "Hindoo invasion" (yes, they spelled it Hindoo) when barely any were even allowed into the country.

I think the limited number of certain immigrants in politics is because they're conditioned to go into science and engineering. However, I feel that this is now changing. I wonder where Proletariat is getting his info that Asians haven't made a dent in the top levels of science & engineering.

 

[ivol07]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: mugs
I'd rather have latino parents than asian parents.

That's the dumbest comment I have heard today.

Why?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: amoeba

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Give Asians a generation or two in the US and they'll be as big as slackers as the rest of the American population.

I don't agree. Its been quite a few generations and somehow I don't see this happen. While the number of asian slackers might increase due to general population increase, I think you will still see a disproportionate number of asians at the top.

Eh? I see very few Asians in the uppermost reaches of Western society. Politics, acting, science etc. On average they are above average but as far as the top level goes they really haven't made a dent. Unless you consider Indians Asians, which unfortunately many people do here.

I really don't like this ubermensche idea lot of Asians have as well... "We are smarter on average than Whites, Indians, Arabs etc.!!!"

Since we are generalizing....

They are good robots. Clogs in the corporate wheel. Coruse they do better on average, playing it safe, playing the odds, but creativity and individuality suffers. It's easy to learn what's already written. Read Dave Berrys book about his trip to japan . Even when they try and "rebel" as youngsters thier creativity is limited to every "rebel kid" wearing the exact same shit, exact same hair, listening to the exact same band.

Need I say more?
http://almaz.com/nobel/chemistry/chemistry.html
http://almaz.com/nobel/physics/physics.html
http://almaz.com/nobel/medicine/medicine.html
http://almaz.com/nobel/literature/literature.html
http://almaz.com/nobel/economics/economics.html

Browsing those names I see very few Asain names, all Japanese of the Asain, and all that won that year collabortaed with a western sounding name. PS: this is like the vanguard award(s) for creativity and innovation in various arts and sciences. So even in thier supposedly "strong" suit they generally are weak at the top.

 

[DVad3r]

This has nothing to do with racism, its culture...if u want to get a good glimpse of the latino culture, go watch latin kings of comedy DVD pureee jokes, and its true, my latino friends even said so !

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Mrvile
Asians generally use cable or DSL internet while hispanics hook up wires to hamster wheels and tell them to run like they're crossing the border.

Why does that remind of a Gilligan's Island espisode? (Actually, about half of them.)

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Eh? I see very few Asians in the uppermost reaches of Western society. Politics, acting, science etc. On average they are above average but as far as the top level goes they really haven't made a dent.
I really don't like this ubermensche idea lot of Asians have as well... "We are smarter on average than Whites, Indians, Arabs etc.!!!"

Let see, just the top of my head.
Politics: Washington Governor, U.S. Senator (Hawaii) (can't remember names at this moment)
Acting: Dustin Nguyen, Jason Scott Lee, Lee Diamond Phillip
Science: Do I need to get you all the names of Asian doctors in my city? It would take a while just to list them and it is just a medium/mid size city. Take a look around the Federal/State sciences entities, there are tons of us there.

I know we don't have a lot at the top yet but considering our short history (especially for the recently immigrants), we achieve more than other races (per capita), even the natives.

I woud never say we are smarter, just work harder and relentless (see my sig). Our parents give up a lot for us and we just tried our darnest.

Here is my take. When I was in HS, there was only 1 black guy and zero hispanics/other races beside us Asians and Whites in AP classes.
When I was in college, same thing, zero black/hispanics/other beside us Asians and Whites in our MBA classes. One white gal and I were the only 20something in our classes, everyone were 30 or older. Our city is 50/50 between black and white.

I don't understand why other minority races need affirmative actions just to get in college/get a job/promotions,etc. Why not just study/work harder and smarter to get in/achieve on your own merits? I did it and other Asians did it, without any help.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: zerocool1
not really, because of how IQ tests are designed and certain concepts of statistics.
IQ tests are normalized and when you take sample sizes when n>30 the distribution becomes closer and closer to a normal distribution.

The sample sizes have been huge and the distrubution is not equal among races. The average score among everybody has been normalized to 100, but certain races consistently outscore others, both in IQ tests and in aptitude tests (which stem from their IQ scores). When the samples are larger, like you say, they do get closer to the normal distribution for their race- but as I said before not all races have the same scores. Sub-saharan Africans have an average of around 85, US whites around 100, and Asians around 106. When you sample millions of people in these groups you see the average of the results sticking to these historical averages.