Is there any such thing as a religious hot deal?

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
All Religious HD's are just blatant attempts to recruit, nothing more. I think that's why so many people have problems with them.

that about sums it up.

 

[crobusa]

i don't quite understand you. I think overall you agree with JZero, but you just seem to want to ban religion threads. If so, why did you post this thread?? are you going to be openminded on the issue or not??

I don't want to rant. I want to ask for other's opinions and form a concenisus. People say all the time, take it to OT. I've doing this. In the first post, I said I wish to petition for either a outright ban on religious HDs.

If i had a deal on religious books, (not bibles but books) or religious videos, or Christian music and i posted it and i got the same types of responses that we currently get to any religious hot deals, what would be ur position then??

I should have made a distinction earlier between Religion HDs and religious related HDs. You are correct, I have no problem with religion related hds, just ones that are giving away the manifesto of the religion. Videos or music that is sold on the mass market and benefits more than a minority I have no problem with. If it can be found on Amazon for $49.95, that's great! If it is either available everywhere for free or is offered for next to nothing because it has no interest outside .01% of population, I feel that's not a Hot Deal.

You keep referring to ONE particular thread but should that ONE particular thread (a wierd one theologically btw) be the standard for all religious HD threads? or should we talk about religious HD threads in general. What is wrong with a HD thread that offers free bibles. HOW can you object to that?

I don't like dogma by itself being marketed as a HD. I see it offered for free everywhere. I don't want to see posts of "online books", just so someone can indoctrinate more people. I admit "hotness" is a subjective quality, but no one has yet claimed to use their services, only heckle them.

The only objection is that it pisses of certain people. SOO WHAT??

Were it not for people being pissed off, the thread would be at the bottom of the forum. I'm frustrated myself at people bringing it to the top. I am just as angry at them as I am with people shouting In Before Thle stupid Lock.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: crobusa

The only objection is that it pisses of certain people. SOO WHAT??

Were it not for people being pissed off, the thread would be at the bottom of the forum. I'm frustrated myself at people bringing it to the top. I am just as angry at them as I am with people shouting In Before Thle stupid Lock.

So your real problem is with the people TROLLING in the threads not the thread itself.

which is exactly what JZero has been trying to say, as i read his posts.

i agree with JZero, Either ban religious HD threads all together OR prevent people from trolling in them as is the rule.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
All Religious HD's are just blatant attempts to recruit, nothing more. I think that's why so many people have problems with them.

that about sums it up.

just because people have a problem with them DOES not give them the right to troll in the thread.

ALL HD threads are marketing of sorts, "recruiting" as you call it is Marketing.

Leave the threads alone and they would die quicker ANYWAY. those that want to protest IN the threads that they don't like the thread are the biggest morons because they are perpetuating.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Shouldn't something targetted at the moderators be posted in forum issues?

 

[crobusa]

So your real problem is with the people TROLLING in the threads not the thread itself.

My real problem is that any religious page/book/keychain or offer for salvation can be called a hot deal. FW has a page for items worth less then $20. This nonsence would go there.
As much as it bothers me to say this, the trolls have an unexpected benefit by making sure the thread is locked. That should be no reason to stop the conversation, but at least it saves it from being on a front page with light jabs as replies.

 

[Jzero]

So your real problem is with the people TROLLING in the threads not the thread itself.

which is exactly what JZero has been trying to say, as i read his posts.

i agree with JZero, Either ban religious HD threads all together OR prevent people from trolling in them as is the rule.

We are definitely all in agreement (at least you, me and Crobusa) that something should be done. I think that's the bottom line 🙂

As for:

All Religious HD's are just blatant attempts to recruit, nothing more. I think that's why so many people have problems with them.

Say the Mormon church is offering to send you a free copy of the Book Of Mormon, and they want your name address and phone number.
A few years ago, Cisco gave away a bunch of free books and they also wanted name address and phone. The books always were related to a Cisco technology.
Each time I ordered a Cisco book, I knew that if I gave my correct phone number, a salesperson would call me, and they did.

What is the difference? One deal pimps a religion, one pimps DWDM MAN/WAN switches? It's all just trying to glean contact information for the sales force.

 

[DrPizza]

I'm simply going to respond to the initial question on the post.
Is there any such thing as a religious hot deal? Answer: Yes.
Sorry, but inasmuch as the Bible is a religious text, it's also one that is studied in various college courses.
Last semester, I needed a copy of the Bible for a grad level world civ class. Great. Got one free.
That was a hot deal for me; saved me a bundle.

As far as recruitment goes, I really don't think that sending a free bible to anyone is going to make them religious. Otherwise, they wouldn't make you ask for the free bibles.

A free trial, or free sample of anything that holds a value may be considered a hot deal. A free Bible is merely a free sample of religion. Getting that free sample does not compel the recipient to become a lifelong user of any particular product, bibles included.

 

[crobusa]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Shouldn't something targetted at the moderators be posted in forum issues?

After PMing the mods, they said it would make a good reply in a thread here. This was locked once. I hope to get a wide audience so I can find out how others feel on the subject. Only if a new solution was created would I post there, but this issue has been going on so long, they know about it already.

 

[przero]

crobusa - Let me get this straight. You don't want anyone to post a hot deal with religious references because it is offensive?

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: crobusa

So your real problem is with the people TROLLING in the threads not the thread itself.

My real problem is that any religious page/book/keychain or offer for salvation can be called a hot deal. FW has a page for items worth less then $20. This nonsence would go there.
As much as it bothers me to say this, the trolls have an unexpected benefit by making sure the thread is locked. That should be no reason to stop the conversation, but at least it saves it from being on a front page with light jabs as replies.

you see, now your changing the parameters again. everytime the question is asked you point blank you respond that it's really only the trollers you have a problem with given a little leeway you change your tune and imply that you want to do away with OR build another room just for those type deals.

SO i'm gonna put the screws to you again. HOW exactly would you classify religious HD and what would you classify as "legitimate" Hot Deals??

The only example you've given was the $10.00 for someone who's child memorizes 10 commandments. First of all, this shouldn't be offensive to anyone, no one that is disinterested in religion is going to force his child to memorize 10 commandments for 10 bucks. be for real. as jzero said, only christians who were already going to have their children memorize 10 commandments would sign up for something like this.

you further imply that you don't think it is right for a parent to impress religious idea's or beliefs on their children. you have a right to that belief but it is WAAAAAYYYYY out of the scope of the moderators of this forum. it is not a belief that you have any right trying to force on other children. i teach my children about God and religion and you have no business making any comments on this whatsoever.

You haven't been able to maintain a consistent position. you keep waffling because you want to pretend to have some kind of objectivity (which you don't, you are OBVIOUSLY biased against "religious" Hot Deals. but you refuse to DEFINE what a religious HOT DEAL is and you make statements that are ludicrous and have no real business here.

I could go thru the Hot Deals forum on any given day and say 99% of it is trash. so should i make some kind of broad generalizations about each of those types of posts that i don't like and just flame away until the mods lock it so that only the types of HOT DEAL posts I find valuable are on the first page??

this is another tenant of your so called argument that "valuable" hd's should be on the first page. SO the question must be asked, VALUABLE TO WHOM??? TO YOU??

What exactly is your position?

 

[przero]

LeeTJ - Well said.

 

[Vic]

I don't think it matters who or what is "offended" by a "religious" HD.
HD is not OT. If a deal is legal and legitimate, you don't like it, and you don't have a legitimate warning about the deal (i.e. reseller ratings, better deal elsewhere, etc.), then click on by. Threadcrapping is rude and immature, and most certainly should be a bannable offense here. I hope Valsalva's vacation is a permanent one.

btw, I find the "atheist" crowd on AT to be as offensive as (and similar to) a group of racists.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: Vic
I don't think it matters who or what is "offended" by a "religious" HD.
HD is not OT. If a deal is legal and legitimate, you don't like it, and don't have a legitimate warning about the deal (i.e. reseller ratings, better deal elsewhere, etc.), then click on by. Threadcrapping is rude and immature, and most certainly should be a bannable offense here. I hope Valsalva's vacation is a permanent one.

btw, I find the "atheist" crowd on AT to be as offensive as (and similar to) a group of racists.

agreed.

but as you notice, most posting in this thread are pro religion, IOW, the atheist have chosen not to argue because they have nothing legitimate to say. the few that have posted have done nothing more than neff and troll.

 

[0roo0roo]

not all threads are valid in ht. ask yourself, why the ban on porn related hotdeals? there isn't the freedom to post anything you want.

 

[RossMAN]

Originally posted by: Vic
I don't think it matters who or what is "offended" by a "religious" HD.
HD is not OT. If a deal is legal and legitimate, you don't like it, and you don't have a legitimate warning about the deal (i.e. reseller ratings, better deal elsewhere, etc.), then click on by. Threadcrapping is rude and immature, and most certainly should be a bannable offense here. I hope Valsalva's vacation is a permanent one.

btw, I find the "atheist" crowd on AT to be as offensive as (and similar to) a group of racists.

He was given a vacation? Got a link?

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
not all threads are valid in ht. ask yourself, why the ban on porn related hotdeals? there isn't the freedom to post anything you want.

no one here is arguing that ALL threads are valid.

As JZero said, either make it a NO religious HD a rule OR don't allow anyone to flame in religious HD just like they aren't allowed to in other HD. what is so hard about that??

why can't you just acknowledge that the problem exists?

just what exactly is it your trying to defend?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: RossMAN
He was given a vacation? Got a link?

nm... I misread the mod's comments in the thread in question where the mod posted "I agree with the sentiment that you should have been given time off for this incident." 😱
Sorry to say but I disagree with the mod in this instance. Religious tolerance and freedom of expression are one thing and I very much support them. OTOH, Valsalva has (IMO) proven himself to be a bigot.

 

[crobusa]

Let?s use this terminology:
-Religious Hot Deal: Paraphernalia directly related to converting: bibles and giving money to convert
-Hot Deal regarding religion: Music Videos, t-shirts, watches, toenail clippers, corkscrews, anything useful that has a religious passage on it.
-Stuff in-between, worth less then $1 but usefull to some: keychains, hairbraids.

I would ban the Religious hot deal, leave the Hot deal regarding religion open and vacation the thread crapper, and make a judgment on the stuff in-between.

Finally, if you don?t like atheism or any alternative religion on AT, I don?t give a damn. Theists and atheists alike have had problems with ALL religious hot deals because for either the post, the threadcrap, or the response. I happen to think the last two are inevitable unless there is a option to hide deals.
Theists hate the threadcrap, and atheists hate the responses that keep the free bible on the first page ?till it?s finally locked.

Lastly I don?t like the following hot deals whether their religious or not:
-Offering an item that is otherwise free.
-Offering an item that is so obscure no one has any use for it except one or two people and has little value to anyone else.

Whatever you believe in, there is definite room for improvement. I have done my best to suggest compromises, but something needs to be done.

btw, I find the "atheist" crowd on AT to be as offensive as (and similar to) a group of racists.

but as you notice, most posting in this thread are pro religion, IOW, the atheist have chosen not to argue because they have nothing legitimate to say. the few that have posted have done nothing more than neff and troll.

*Sits back and LMAO* Are you saying I?m trolling or do you think I?m not an atheist. I don't want a flame war, and obviously don't see myself as a rasist. When did we take sides?

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: Zim Hosein

Originally posted by: RossMAN
AFAIK most religious Hot Deals threads are locked because people can't be civil.

Sadly RossMAN is right 🙁

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: crobusa
Let?s use this terminology:
-Religious Hot Deal: Paraphernalia directly related to converting: bibles and giving money to convert
-Hot Deal regarding religion: Music Videos, t-shirts, watches, toenail clippers, corkscrews, anything useful that has a religious passage on it.
-Stuff in-between, worth less then $1 but usefull to some: keychains, hairbraids.

I would ban the Religious hot deal, leave the Hot deal regarding religion open and vacation the thread crapper, and make a judgment on the stuff in-between.

Finally, if you don?t like atheism or any alternative religion on AT, I don?t give a damn. Theists and atheists alike have had problems with ALL religious hot deals because for either the post, the threadcrap, or the response. I happen to think the last two are inevitable unless there is a option to hide deals.
Theists hate the threadcrap, and atheists hate the responses that keep the free bible on the first page ?till it?s finally locked.

Lastly I don?t like the following hot deals whether their religious or not:
-Offering an item that is otherwise free.
-Offering an item that is so obscure no one has any use for it except one or two people and has little value to anyone else.

Whatever you believe in, there is definite room for improvement. I have done my best to suggest compromises, but something needs to be done.

btw, I find the "atheist" crowd on AT to be as offensive as (and similar to) a group of racists.

but as you notice, most posting in this thread are pro religion, IOW, the atheist have chosen not to argue because they have nothing legitimate to say. the few that have posted have done nothing more than neff and troll.

*Sits back and LMAO* Are you saying I?m trolling or do you think I?m not an atheist. I don't want a flame war, and obviously don't see myself as a rasist. When did we take sides?

nope

i already said what i felt about your responses.

again, Thread crapping is specifically against the rules of forums. as you said, every time a religious hot deal is posted someone comes in and flames.

oh btw, Bibles are NOT otherwise free. they cost money. they are offered for free by some people. hence IT IS A HOT DEAL. refer a few posts above.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: wizardLRU

Originally posted by: Zim Hosein

Originally posted by: RossMAN
AFAIK most religious Hot Deals threads are locked because people can't be civil.

Sadly RossMAN is right 🙁

again, the reason they are not civil is because people can not OBEY the rules of the forum.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: LeeTJ

Originally posted by: Vic
I don't think it matters who or what is "offended" by a "religious" HD.
HD is not OT. If a deal is legal and legitimate, you don't like it, and don't have a legitimate warning about the deal (i.e. reseller ratings, better deal elsewhere, etc.), then click on by. Threadcrapping is rude and immature, and most certainly should be a bannable offense here. I hope Valsalva's vacation is a permanent one.

btw, I find the "atheist" crowd on AT to be as offensive as (and similar to) a group of racists.

agreed.

but as you notice, most posting in this thread are pro religion, IOW, the atheist have chosen not to argue because they have nothing legitimate to say. the few that have posted have done nothing more than neff and troll.

I beg your pardon. I posted that I thought the reason that many objected to Religious Hot Deals was because it was a Blatant attempt to recruit. So far no one has refuted that. Since when is the truth a Troll or a Nef?

Please don't make all Christians out as Martyrs just because a few act like it.

 

[crobusa]

oh btw, Bibles are NOT otherwise free. they cost money. they are offered for free by some people. hence IT IS A HOT DEAL. refer a few posts above.

Bibles may cost something to produce, but it's a common practice for them to be given away. They have small street value, and serve little purpose other then to prosletyze. Would you have no objection of HD is flooded with Korans, Buddist texts, Satanic Bibles, and Athiest's manifestos? Would you honsistly call those hot deals?

BTW, by calling atheists nefs and trolls, you do nothing but try to start a flamewar. If you can't stop saying antagonist things, I suggest you leave.

 

[LeeTJ]

Originally posted by: crobusa

oh btw, Bibles are NOT otherwise free. they cost money. they are offered for free by some people. hence IT IS A HOT DEAL. refer a few posts above.

Bibles may cost something to produce, but it's a common practice for them to be given away. They have small street value, and serve little purpose other then to prosletyze. Would you have no objection of HD is flooded with Korans, Buddist texts, Satanic Bibles, and Athiest's manifestos? Would you honsistly call those hot deals?

yes I would call them HD, not for me, but for someone. Does a hd have to be a hd for EVERYONE?