Originally posted by: Netopia
On the second issue, the memorization of material... do some research into how the mind works. Do I think that memorizing a moral code will turn hardened children into model citizens? Nope... which is why I don't even come near to saying anything like that. What I do know is the power of repetition. What do YOU think happens when an average person repeats something to themselves over and over and over? I can still remember some of my dialogues from 7th Grade French that I had to memorize over 25 years ago!. What if a kid with no moral upbringing pounds into their own head "I mustn't steal... I mustn't steal" "I won't lie... I won't lie" "I won't kill... I won't kill"? In many cases it may do little more than get them to know the words... but what if in even 1% it was internalized? What if 1% of kids who memorized these things accepted a moral code and became better humans because of it? Was it worth the effort?
blah blah blah. Maybe YOU should do some research into how the mind works. Your biggest fallacy is somehow assuming that by memorization of the 10 commandments translates to behavioral modification. Even if i stipulate that "1% of it was internalized" (which is still a meaningless statement), we can predict that there will probably NOT be a change in the child's behavior. First of all, do you HONESTLY believe that getting a kid to memorize 10 lines on how to behave with the motivation of earning $10 for his DAD is going to cause him to modify what he does? Absolutely not!!! Many of the kids who are defiant and commit crimes are OBVIOUSLY aware that what they're doing is wrong -- they KNOW they police could come after them with the potential of being thrown in jail. They're not retarded. A lot of their behavior can be explained by their beliefs and attitudes. Using stealing as an example: Beliefs: they think they can gain something from stealing (sell stuff later, etc.), they might get a cheap thrill out of it, they think they can get away with it, they really don't have that much to lose, the benefits (money) outweigh the risks (getting caught). Attitudes: they don't think stealing is a big deal, all their friends do it too so it's normal, etc. If you were to insert "moral code" into that equation, your sense of morals would have to overcome all of these obstacles in order for the kid to think twice about stealing. On the other hand, getting one of these kids to memorize the 10 Commandments isn't going to do squat because: they'll probably think it's a big joke or waste of time, they're dad's getting $10 anyway (not them), and if it actually dawns on them that they should try following a couple of the commandments, it'll hit them really fast that they have a lot to lose and nothing to gain. Forget about moral code. You can predict that there will be absolute ZERO change in the way these kids think and behave by paying their dad $10 to learn the 10 commandments. I maintain that this deal is cold, and all of you hoping/wishing/praying that the kids will turn into angels tells me you're living in a dream world.
If you don't like this particular Religious Hot Deal, come up with something better and back it up yourself...
There you go again on your high horse trying to demand me to do things. First you tried to change the forum rules, and now you're requiring that I come up with better deals than memorizing the 10 Commandments for $10. Actually, here's okay, here's one:
HOT: Stop going to Church. Save 10% of your yearly income and do something useful with your Sunday mornings.
What you care about is that you've got an issue with God and you want to vent it onto everyone else. You have deep seated resentments and you feel the need to act out. Somewhere you've got some major pain in you that you think is eased by attacking people of faith and the faith they believe in.
Wow, Freud, that's pretty good. I love how people here like to psychoanalyze me and they assume all sorts of great stuff. One guy thought I used to be a die-hard Christian, but went astray. Another assumed that I had some beef against Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, etc. (despite the fact that I never wrote about them)....and yet another likened me to racists, sexists, and homophobes (despite the fact that the Catholic Church is fairly homophobic), etc. And now I've got some major pain in me which is only relieved by attacking people of faith. I like that...it's not "attacking Christian jerks on AT," but now extended to "people of faith."
if that wasn't so, you'd be able to see more objectively and realize that there is good in most things "religious" even for the atheist.
You're right...I should see that religious things are good for the atheist... ummm...okay.
You know what? I believe that Christianity is the only true religion, but that doesn't mean that I believe that Christianity is the only religion with truth. If Islam says it is wrong to murder, that is truth. If Buddism says to be selfless, that can also be truth.
What if my Jewish friend believes that he cannot go to hell because hell doesn't exist. Is THAT the truth?
I think the problem you have is that you belive that anti-religion is truth and because you hold so tightly to this belief you blind yourself to the fact that there are universal truths that need to reach people, even if it is through religion.
I think that you have wished/hoped/prayed to yourself so badly that I am anti-religious that you have failed to actually correlate your wish/hope/prayer to anything that I have actually written. If you've come to the conclusion that I am anti-religious in general, then you're either not actually reading what I write before you form conslusions, or you have the reading comprehension of an 8 year old. pick one.
If you ever want to talk, just PM me and I'll be happy to converse. I don't have any expectation of you converting, but wouldn't life be more joyful for you if you could be at peace with whatever is hurting you so that you didn't have a constant anger and need to lash out against people of faith?
If you convert me, then does that score you brownie points with Jesus? If so, I convert. I don't want you to burn in hell.
You are correct, it is just my suggestion. Buy you need to ask yourself why you feel the need to rant and rave and carry on.
...because of people like you. I thought that would be obvious to even the most casual observer with limited experience in this thread.
If you really wanted to warn someone, you would do so and be done with it, but that isn't the case. You have an axe to grind, anger to dispense on others and so you hammer away again and agian.
That's because the Christians of AT are so full of anger and hatred and have to post inane followups to what I write. For instance, we STILL have people here who honestly believe that $10 for 10 Commandments was a hot deal....we've even got one guy who thinks that the juvenile delinquents in Washington D.C. will stop stealing and beating each other up once they learn it's wrong by memorizing these commandments. Did it occur to you that if my posts weren't followed by a barrage of retarded whining from the Christian community (with a 1:10 ratio), then i wouldn't have to respond with a followup?
I suggest that you truly examine your motives, ask yourself why and then try to deal with your internal issues. Life will not only be better for those you obstruct and offend but you will be happier and have more time to spend on things that build up rather than spending your time on things that tear down.
You seem to have the euphoric fluffiness of the more devout Christians I've met... Yes, I MUST have internal issues and I must have a horrible life of suffering and pain and anguish and lack of fulfillment because I don't have Jesus to carry me over the sand and I don't have the bible to tell me how to do things like walking with alternating feet and brushing my teeth. They probably taught you in Church that those people who have not found Jesus live incredibly unfulfilling lives -- too bad half the world has never heard of Jesus Christ or the other 2/3 of the Trinity...their lives must absolutely suck.
Valsalva
