Question Is "the writing on the wall" - the end for enthusiasts? [LTT]

[VirtualLarry]

Discussing if Apple's M1 silicon is the future of computing, and discrete CPU and GPU days are numbered.

Maybe this should go in the Apple M series silicon thread, sorry.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

They have found success using kind-of an Apple model, where their entertainment devices (TVs and consoles) complement their entertainment properties (TV/Hollywood studios/game studios). Their TVs might be overpriced but at least on the console side, they did the sensible thing and made it affordable to a degree, giving them runaway success.

Reaction to reading that -

 

[coercitiv]

I doubt anyone other than Apple can copy Apple's pricing for their products (no matter how good) and still not go bankrupt due to low volume of sales.

Excellent point, you have to love the Apple flavored kool aid. Sony was the only other company with a similar cult following, we all know how that went.

The market is full of brands that charge as much as Apple does for SOME of their products. Dell, Lenovo, Asus, all of them have very expensive products, just because you're not considering them does not mean they do not exist.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Walmart re-introduced "VAIO"

My only exposure to a VAIO laptop was in my first IT support assistant job where the HR manager had a stupid 12 inch VAIO which wouldn't detect the USB flash drive whenever he put it in and he would forget how to make it visible. My IT manager knew how and he showed me when the HR manager shouted at me when I couldn't solve his problem in 5 seconds (he was very impatient). Guess what he did? Opened disk management. Right clicked the USB volume and assigned a drive letter to it. Apparently, you had to do that from time to time as the laptop would often "forget" to assign the drive letter to to the UFD. Never encountered that problem on any other PC or laptop as far as I can recall.

 

[igor_kavinski]

The market is full of brands that charge as much as Apple does for SOME of their products. Dell, Lenovo, Asus, all of them have very expensive products, just because you're not considering them does not mean they do not exist.

True. But these companies don't bet their livelihood on these expensive devices. If they did, they would cease to exist.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The market is full of brands that charge as much as Apple does for SOME of their products. Dell, Lenovo, Asus, all of them have very expensive products, just because you're not considering them does not mean they do not exist.

Some is the operative word though. And can you give me this week's lottery numbers since you are evidently psychic? I personally equate Apple to BMW, Porsche, and Mercedes biz model here in the U.S.. Honda and Toyota have luxury brands, but with the others, that's all they offer.

And do me a solid; go hump someone else's leg for awhile.

 

[coercitiv]

And do me a solid; go hump someone else's leg for awhile.

How about you practice what you preach then?

 

[igor_kavinski]

Honda and Toyota have luxury brands, but with the others, that's all they offer.

That's why I dislike Apple. In their perfect world and through their rose-tinted glasses, the average income is $3000-4000 per month, EVERYWHERE.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

How about you practice what you preach then?

Not trying to hurt your feels. I gave up coffee a ways back after drinking it for 40yrs. But it is in my pre workout stack, so I am typing without my normal mental filter at the moment. There is no wrong or right in these discussions, we are all playing psychic friends network.

 

[coercitiv]

I am typing without my normal mental filter at the moment.

Take your time then, do your workout, get some rest and only then post stupid things on the Internet. It's important to know you're at full humping capacity.

 

[VirtualLarry]

That's why I dislike Apple. In their perfect world and through their rose-tinted glasses, the average income is $3000-4000 per month, EVERYWHERE.

That's like, crypto-miner income.










Edit: Ok, ok, I exaggerated. A tad.

 

[Doug S]

That's why I dislike Apple. In their perfect world and through their rose-tinted glasses, the average income is $3000-4000 per month, EVERYWHERE.

They realize there are people who can't afford their products, they just choose to target the higher end of the market because that's where the money is. Why do you think they should be guilted into offering low end stuff, it isn't like no one else sells smartphones, laptops, in-ear speakers, etc. etc.

Do you feel the same about Rolls Royce or Moon Audio? They think the average income is $300,000 per month.

 

[Markfw]

I don't like apple since they are so proprietary.

 

[aigomorla]

That's why I dislike Apple. In their perfect world and through their rose-tinted glasses, the average income is $3000-4000 per month, EVERYWHERE.

You must be talking about California...
You need to earn at least that much unless you want to live out of your car.
Ive had really funny resume's with almost no experience fresh out of college ask double that, and they wanted to do Remote on top.
You have no idea how many applications i threw in the shredder after having a good laugh.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Do you feel the same about Rolls Royce or Moon Audio?

Couldn't care less about them. And I didn't give a damn about Apple pre-M1. I wish they had a 4-core M1 MBA with 4GB/128GB for $500 so people could at least put their foot in their door. Guess they want their current customers to keep feeling exclusive and chic.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Take your time then, do your workout, get some rest and only then post stupid things on the Internet. It's important to know you're at full humping capacity.

I did hurt your feels.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I did hurt your feels.

Get a room, you two

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Get a room, you two

A little good nature banter isn't going to break the forums.

 

[Glo.]

The reson is odd to say the least: people look at what Apple is able to achieve with the Mac Studio and then expect the PC makers to match this at a fraction of the cost. For some reason Apple integrated performance is the future, but Apple pricing is not included in the prediction model.

Mac Studio equivalent would be Threadripper/EPYC APU.

AMD Phoenix, Intel Meteor Lake-P, Arrow Lake-P - M1/M2 equivalents.

So we are looking at SSF PCs priced eqivalent to Mac Mini with M1.

 

[Shivansps]

If there's one thing that OEMs are jealous of Apple, it's that Apple solders everything. Even without Super APUs, I could see convergence happening just to kill off third party upgrades.

The problem here is that there are a lot of "OEMs" that work on the current "Desktop PC Model", PSUs, cases, disks, memory, motherboards, etc etc etc. And they are all putting pressure for the current model not to die off. Honestely there have been rumors about the death of desktop pcs for 10-15 years now, yet here we are.

OEMs like Lenovo, HP, etc can do wharever they want anyway. They can block wharever they want because they make their own mbs and bios, they can ever make the cpu to be unable to be used on other mbs too. So this would change nothing for them.

The other oems do not want more stuff to be soldered on the boards, thats more cost for them, more parts that can fail, and the target market for each product becomes smaller. Like instead of selling a AM4 board you would have to make like 10 boards with the diferent options.

AMD can make a "killer APU" if they want, but they arent interested in doing it, they want to sell dgpus too. Like this Killer RDNA3 apu with RTX2060 performance in 2023/2024... by that time it will not be that impressive!

 

[Glo.]

The problem here is that there are a lot of "OEMs" that work on the current "Desktop PC Model", PSUs, cases, disks, memory, motherboards, etc etc etc. And they are all putting pressure for the current model not to die off. Honestely there have been rumors about the death of desktop pcs for 10-15 years now, yet here we are.

OEMs like Lenovo, HP, etc can do wharever they want anyway. They can block wharever they want because they make their own mbs and bios, they can ever make the cpu to be unable to be used on other mbs too. So this would change nothing for them.

The other oems do not want more stuff to be soldered on the boards, thats more cost for them, more parts that can fail, and the target market for each product becomes smaller. Like instead of selling a AM4 board you would have to make like 10 boards with the diferent options.

AMD can make a "killer APU" if they want, but they arent interested in doing it, they want to sell dgpus too. Like this Killer RDNA3 apu with RTX2060 performance in 2023/2024... by that time it will not be that impressive!

Gigabyte's Aorus Model S 12th is a Compact Mini-ITX Gaming System That Doesn't Rely on Liquid Cooling

Gigabyte has tried its luck at building compact gaming systems in the past, mainly part of its BRIX family of mini PCs, but none really took off. Last year the company introduced the Aorus Model S, although it didn't seem to garner much traction either, but it seems like Gigabyte is ready to...

www.techpowerup.com

Razer Tomahawk Modular Gaming Desktop Arrives

During CES 2020, way back in January of this year, Razer had shown off a quite interesting concept. Called a modular gaming desktop, the concept has a goal to allow users to just swap-out parts on the fly and have no trouble doing so. Today, the company has officially decided to launch the...

www.techpowerup.com

Actually, companies/OEMs are currently developing next generation form factors, and pre built PCs.

This nieche, currently, will grow into mainstream desktop experience, guys.

P.S. Any mainstream desktop APU with RTX 2060 performance within upcoming 18 months will be extremely impressive achievement. Regardless of what else will be on market in dGPU space.

 

[jpiniero]

OEMs like Lenovo, HP, etc can do wharever they want anyway. They can block wharever they want because they make their own mbs and bios, they can ever make the cpu to be unable to be used on other mbs too. So this would change nothing for them.

I think it's more memory and disk than CPU, at least with consumer/corporate products. Soldered is probably an easier sell than locking socketed stuff to a specific OEM. But even soldered can be an issue since people like having the ability to go third party to save money.

For an assembly cost standpoint from a Giant OEM, I don't know what is cheaper.

The other oems do not want more stuff to be soldered on the boards, thats more cost for them, more parts that can fail, and the target market for each product becomes smaller. Like instead of selling a AM4 board you would have to make like 10 boards with the diferent options.

You mean ODMs (Board Makers)... and that's another issue.

 

[Glo.]

I think it's more memory and disk than CPU, at least with consumer/corporate products. Soldered is probably an easier sell than locking socketed stuff to a specific OEM. But even soldered can be an issue since people like having the ability to go third party to save money.

For an assembly cost standpoint from a Giant OEM, I don't know what is cheaper.



You mean ODMs (Board Makers)... and that's another issue.

Going full-Apple route and soldering the RAM may be, at this point, impossible to push for companies.

People will still like to replace the RAM, SSD, etc. In 5 years?

Yeah, then I can see it happening that we will get everything soldered to Mobo, for one reason, or another.

Probably because Optane cache soldered into Mobo has magical ability to speed up identification on the Web 5.0.

 

[coercitiv]

Actually, companies/OEMs are currently developing next generation form factors, and pre built PCs.

They're certainly taking their sweet time developing them, here's the Aorus Model S promotional video from last year, sporting the 11900K.

Meanwhile, the Razer Tomahawk is priced exactly as I said, 100% Mac Studio level. It's $2400 just for the system without a dGPU.

 

[Captante]

Is "the writing on the wall" - the end for enthusiasts?

No.... this is about the 900th time I've heard this and it's no more true now then it was the first time back in the late 1990's.

I enjoy LTT most of the time (and in particular Anthony-stuff) but that video is poorly researched click-bait.

 

[poke01]

I am fine with Apple being proprietary. Forcing someone to be "open source" goes against that image imo.

Apple can make closed source OS, hardware and services but what pisses me off is the Apple stance on Right to Repair and their treatment of customers when they make a failed product ie iPhone 4 and MacBook Pro with the butterfly keyboard.

Apple is a greedy company that is also stuborn and it's C-Suites have no shame and are ignorant.