Question Is "the writing on the wall" - the end for enthusiasts? [LTT]

[VirtualLarry]

Discussing if Apple's M1 silicon is the future of computing, and discrete CPU and GPU days are numbered.

Maybe this should go in the Apple M series silicon thread, sorry.

 

[Heartbreaker]

I usually skip all LTT videos, and watching this one reinforces my default stance.

This just uses sketchy reasoning all over the place. Fixating on die size, while ignoring the difference process nodes they are on, and rambling on speculation not really backed up. Like claiming they would be 3090 performance if they didn't use Metal... WTH?

Ignoring the constant inaccurate nonsense:

Yeah, ARM is likley to eventually make big inroads into the Windows Ecosystem, and more powerful ARM APUs are coming... But this will be almost entirely aimed at mobile (tablet and laptops), and the likelihood of M1-Max/Ultra style APUs seem remote, because that kind of enthusiast performance market benefits from choice and modularity.

If you try to make a monster APU for PC, it would just be one of many options, and probably end up niche, with too low volume to make a successful product, in stark contrast to Apple which just makes it the ONLY choice.

So the enthusiast DIY market will likely remain unfazed by this for the foreseeable future.

 

[tomatosummit]

I am fine with Apple being proprietary. Forcing someone to be "open source" goes against that image imo.

Apple can make closed source OS, hardware and services but what pisses me off is the Apple stance on Right to Repair and their treatment of customers when they make a failed product ie iPhone 4 and MacBook Pro with the butterfly keyboard.

Apple is a greedy company that is also stuborn and it's C-Suites have no shame and are ignorant.

Apple being closed and propietary is the main problem, they can be as expensive as they want but everything else they do is abusing the software and hardware monopoly they have among their customers.
A normal market would have the customers up in arms but apple customers are locked in thanks to modern marketing methods. It even seeps into stuff as simple as consumers now seeing a slab of machined aluminium as 'build quality'.

 

[pj-]

No.... this is about the 900th time I've heard this and it's no more true now then it was the first time back in the late 1990's.

I enjoy LTT most of the time (and in particular Anthony-stuff) but that video is poorly researched click-bait.

Feel exactly the same. LTT is usually fun and Anthony is great, but sometimes his takes are whacky. Especially when Apple is involved.

 

[aigomorla]

As long as I have been reading about the convergence device replacing PC, I am starting to think it is like worthwhile fusion reactors; always 20yrs away.

who needs PSU's when we can expect something like this?



would probably even save crypto mining.
Oh wait... no nothing will save that, because i think us Gamers will probably buy AR's and shoot up crypto farms the next time there becomes a GPU shortage.

 

[aigomorla]

Walmart re-introduced "VAIO" (Not "Sony VAIO", mind you) laptops, with high-end prices to match. (Starting at $699, topping at $5000+.)

I had a Sony Vaio 505.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Vaio_505_series

It was the most usless yet hottest thing.
I had it tethered over bluetooth, for the first cellular modem connection back when att was cingular wireless.
I remember going on AT, and AOL messenger while on lunch break at graduate school.

Everyone was jealous, even the girls were more jealous as it was a pretty elegent notebook, which was incredibly difficult to get, as the wait times on them were long.

But again, it was worthless, had very poor battery life, and no such thing as a portal backup battery pack back in 2005.
My Ex at the time wanted to one up me, and got a Sony Vaio C1.
I laughed at her so hard, saying my notebook was bad enough seeing stuff, imagine trying to navigate on a screen half its size.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Vaio_C1_series

But i loved the Vaio's line.... and i also hated them with a passion.
They were not durable... they were incredibly fragile.
Both laptops got replaced to a IBM Thinkpad, when IBM owned it, and i haven't left that brand until Lenovo came along and Wrecked the Thinkpad to the point where no one left had confidence in them, and they discontinued the name all together.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Feel exactly the same. LTT is usually fun and Anthony is great, but sometimes his takes are whacky. Especially when Apple is involved.

You know back in the day, when Anand started doing positive Apple content, and even showing us pics of his homes setup using Apple products, many here were doing the WTF M8?!? It then came as no surprise for some of us, when he took the job with Apple. It is relevant to LTT, in that Linus has expensive taste. And judging by his increasingly jacked up personality on camera, a drug habit to support. And Apple minions are probably a demographic that his media group has barely penetrated to this point.

After all, LTT is a media production company first and foremost.

It's not my intent to insult anyone's intelligence by stating the obvious; only pointing out that it is necessary to evaluate their content through that filter. Anthony is not the head writer, so while he undoubtedly provides technical and creative input, perhaps he does not get to write the final script that they shoot for all of his segments? As they have to constantly generate content to retain the short attention spans of viewers, there is always going to be sponsored content, fluff pieces, and all the other dreck that traditional TV channels developed long ago. This segment is likely designed for exactly what has occurred. That is, to be a topic of discussion around the virtual water cooler.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

But i loved the Vaio's line.... and i also hated them with a passion.
They were not durable... they were incredibly fragile.
Both laptops got replaced to a IBM Thinkpad, when IBM owned it, and i haven't left that brand until Lenovo came along and Wrecked the Thinkpad to the point where no one left had confidence in them, and they discontinued the name all together.

You can't just end the story on a cliff hanger! We want to know what laptop brand you use now. Did you have pity sex with the Ex because she bought a picture book?

 

[Thunder 57]

...And judging by his increasingly jacked up personality on camera, a drug habit to support.

I never really thought about that, but it would explain quite a bit.

 

[poke01]

Apple being closed and propietary is the main problem, they can be as expensive as they want but everything else they do is abusing the software and hardware monopoly they have among their customers.
A normal market would have the customers up in arms but apple customers are locked in thanks to modern marketing methods. It even seeps into stuff as simple as consumers now seeing a slab of machined aluminium as 'build quality'.

EU will be breaking up Apple's software lock which is good and balances the market.
Apple's prices for their iPhones, iPads and MacBooks is good and in line with high-end android and Windows pricing. The base prices are good but it's the upgrade prices on Macs Apple needs to fix.

This video demos why Apple's propietary hardware and software is good and keeping in mind the HP is only $100 cheaper and has horrific thermals:

Apple is leading in Perf/W and it shows. What Apple does really well is their execution is 99% on point. They meet their goals majority of time. We have Intel that is hardly on track and AMD is much better than Intel but it lacks volume and supply chain mastery like Apple has.

All I am saying is if Apple fix their stupidness when it comes to repair and stuborness it will be good just for us but the industry.

 

[aigomorla]

You can't just end the story on a cliff hanger! We want to know what laptop brand you use now. Did you have pity sex with the Ex because she bought a picture book?

Im sad to say im in bed with the other side of evil from apple.
I use a Surface Pro 7.
They are just as unserviceable as apple's.
I also use a Galaxy Tab S8 unless i need that windows environment.
The Tab is so much thinner then the surface, but sometimes you really need that windows.

And no.... she ended up using that laptop or a very long time time as she still loved it.
All she really needed was something that could use microsoft office.

I on the other hand was pimping a Thinkpad T series.
I still think to this date the Thinkpad was the best laptop i have ever owned.
Even down to how the keys felt, it was vastly superior then anything at its time.

 

[poke01]

I still think to this date the Thinkpad was the best laptop i have ever owned.

ThinkPad's have keyboards and build quality on any laptop.
MacBook's have the best trackpad, battery life and sleep mode on any laptop
Surface have interesting gimmicks and fancy tablets

 

[soresu]

Intel and AMD (Nvidia will probably follow suit) are both planning big APU designs for hyperscalers starting next year and some of the designs will definitely trickle down to consumer products. I like the idea of having a single 600W APU with huge unified LPDDR5-6 based memory instead of CPU+dGPU solution. Not saying it will ever replace CPU+dGPU combo, but it will be an interesting alternative.

AMD's big APU is compute only (CDNA3 based), no gfx save for the VCN unit which was kept in for decoding image/video for training AI models.

 

[soresu]

The question is, when does the size of the market of people who build (or buy and later upgrade) their PCs became too small for Intel/AMD to bother with?

If you mean people that personally do it for themselves that market has always been a tiny fraction of the whole, at least once half decent laptops became available.

Most of the people that actually buy discrete PC parts are resellers that assemble pre built systems and buy those parts in bulk.

Even these people who build the systems for resale still want modularity because it offers their customers a lot of choice thus increasing their chances of a sale.

 

[pj-]

You know back in the day, when Anand started doing positive Apple content, and even showing us pics of his homes setup using Apple products, many here were doing the WTF M8?!? It then came as no surprise for some of us, when he took the job with Apple. It is relevant to LTT, in that Linus has expensive taste. And judging by his increasingly jacked up personality on camera, a drug habit to support. And Apple minions are probably a demographic that his media group has barely penetrated to this point.

After all, LTT is a media production company first and foremost.

It's not my intent to insult anyone's intelligence by stating the obvious; only pointing out that it is necessary to evaluate their content through that filter. Anthony is not the head writer, so while he undoubtedly provides technical and creative input, perhaps he does not get to write the final script that they shoot for all of his segments? As they have to constantly generate content to retain the short attention spans of viewers, there is always going to be sponsored content, fluff pieces, and all the other dreck that traditional TV channels developed long ago. This segment is likely designed for exactly what has occurred. That is, to be a topic of discussion around the virtual water cooler.

I watch pretty much every video they produce and am quite certain Linus personally doesn't like Apple very much. One of the fairly unique (for youtube) things about LTT is the credits they put in every video. Anthony is credited as the writer on this one and it feels very much like his voice. If anything they give him too much freedom as a lot of his stuff could use some editing. I don't think his weird takes are necessarily any kind of pro apple bias or conscious desire to court Apply fans (they have a dedicated apple channel for that) but more just unchecked pontificating.

But yes, the point of the video was to generate clicks and it seems to have done its job. I don't mind the clickbait so much as the whiplash in their content that sometimes occurs. Anthony's most recent video before this one essentially boiled down to "the mac studio is dumb"

I think they are at their best when they play with enterprise hardware from a prosumer perspective, or do silly things like strap an external cooler to a steam deck

 

[Ranulf]

or do silly things like strap an external cooler to a steam deck

I don't think anything will top the whole room water cooling they did, in a suburban tract home.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I watch pretty much every video they produce and am quite certain Linus personally doesn't like Apple very much. One of the fairly unique (for youtube) things about LTT is the credits they put in every video. Anthony is credited as the writer on this one and it feels very much like his voice. If anything they give him too much freedom as a lot of his stuff could use some editing. I don't think his weird takes are necessarily any kind of pro apple bias or conscious desire to court Apply fans (they have a dedicated apple channel for that) but more just unchecked pontificating.

But yes, the point of the video was to generate clicks and it seems to have done its job. I don't mind the clickbait so much as the whiplash in their content that sometimes occurs. Anthony's most recent video before this one essentially boiled down to "the mac studio is dumb"

I think they are at their best when they play with enterprise hardware from a prosumer perspective, or do silly things like strap an external cooler to a steam deck

Thanks for taking the time for a well thought out reply. Have an upvote and like; its all I got.

 

[aigomorla]

I don't think anything will top the whole room water cooling they did, in a suburban tract home.

I sir take your call, and add onto your bid.

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Geothermal baby...

 

[nerp]

I never really thought about that, but it would explain quite a bit.

I swear during lockdowns in 2020 he was so freaking stoned and it was obvious. Bloodshot eyes, cotton mouth, the works. I don't know what other drugs he's allegedly on, but the dude clearly seems pretty wake'n'bake to me.