Is the sheriff right or wrong about his stand on Narcan?

[Sea Ray]

Yeh, fuck them stupid junkies. The faster they kill themselves off the more time officers can spend at the donut shop.

More like "more time they can spend attending to emergencies that aren't self inflicted." This sheriff is kinda like our Joe Arpaio. This county is a stone's throw from where I live. This opioid stuff is a huge problem with few solutions.

 

[Sea Ray]

I don't agree with him. He's elected, let voters in that area decide

I know the area well. He's very respected by the voters

 

[ch33zw1z]

I know the area well. He's very respected by the voters

I had a feeling that was the case.

You won't find me voting for callous disdain or willful ignorance.

 

[ch33zw1z]

So the next time an ambulance crew is passing by an armed bank robbery they should just jump right in and stop it to protect the innocents there right? Same mentality you exhibit wanting LEO's to carry medications. Give the EMT's stun guns and let em have fun.

The administration of drugs is not basic first aid nor should it be considered as a LEO responsibility any more than EMT's should be forced to carry nonlethal weapons to conduct law enforcement.

You're presenting it like LEO's need to be anaesthesiologist to administer narcan. Simply isn't the case.

EMT'S would need to go through much more training to be LEO's, which is your comparison.

 

[Jhhnn]

I disagree. People make mistakes. They shouldn't have to die from them. We've all come close to killing ourselves by accident be it not the swift action of a stranger. Just think of every car accident you were almost in due to negligence on your part where a stranger saved the day.

I have no issue with narcan going to overdoses. I just understand a group of professionals pushing back against added responsibilities and liabilities without an increase in pay or benefits to match.

What liability? Administering narcan can't be wrong. It has no effect on people not using opioids.

 

[agent00f]

I disagree. People make mistakes. They shouldn't have to die from them. We've all come close to killing ourselves by accident be it not the swift action of a stranger. Just think of every car accident you were almost in due to negligence on your part where a stranger saved the day.

I have no issue with narcan going to overdoses. I just understand a group of professionals pushing back against added responsibilities and liabilities without an increase in pay or benefits to match.

It's actually somewhat more subtle and devious than that. The sheriff is making a certain moral judgement (and basically letting some die) of certain citizens. What's not to say he, not unlike Sea Ray's favorite Sheriff Joe here, doesn't care for mexican-lookin' people and decides it's not his deputies' job to do much for them either.

These people know narcan doesn't cost much and whatever, they just believe it's their job to punish certain drug users. Of course not all drug users; you can be sure that if it's one of the good ol' boys, they'd do everything they can.

 

[Ackmed]

Would you feel the same way if we were talking about an epipen?

Trying to compare the two is silly. One is for an allergy, that they can't help. One is for a drug they give themselves, which they can help.

Around here it's a pretty big problem. As of May 1st, 108 deaths so far this year. More people are killed drugged while driving, than from being drunk and driving. For those that think some drug users don't use use it as a free pass, you're wrong. There is a good samaritan law here, where neither the drug user that it's used on, or whoever calls it in can be charged. It's abused greatly.

 

[disappoint]

Seems financial considerations are involved in addition to ethical ones. How much ethics can we afford??????

All of it. We can afford all of the ethics. If we can send billions of dollars in aid to other nations, if we can spend so many resources on fighting wars like the war in Iraq under false (WMDs) pretenses, if we can expand the already huge military budget by 50 billion more, then we can at least take care of our own backyard. Maybe even make it a priority rather than an afterthought.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Trying to compare the two is silly. One is for an allergy, that they can't help. One is for a drug they give themselves, which they can help.

Around here it's a pretty big problem. As of May 1st, 108 deaths so far this year. More people are killed drugged while driving, than from being drunk and driving. For those that think some drug users don't use use it as a free pass, you're wrong. There is a good samaritan law here, where neither the drug user that it's used on, or whoever calls it in can be charged. It's abused greatly.

So comparing two products designed specifically as an immediate life saving device administered by anyone is silly?

You're make by my point for me with this response. It isn't about the implement. It's about the people it's designed to save. People we just shouldn't give a shit about.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's actually somewhat more subtle and devious than that. The sheriff is making a certain moral judgement (and basically letting some die) of certain citizens. What's not to say he, not unlike Sea Ray's favorite Sheriff Joe here, doesn't care for mexican-lookin' people and decides it's not his deputies' job to do much for them either.

These people know narcan doesn't cost much and whatever, they just believe it's their job to punish certain drug users. Of course not all drug users; you can be sure that if it's one of the good ol' boys, they'd do everything they can.

It's not about your fave boogieman, Race, at all. Butler County is 91% White & the Sheriff's dept doesn't carry norcan for use on anybody. Opioid drug overdoses were the leading cause of death in the county last year-

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...doses-killed-192-butler-county-2016/98349728/

Oh, yeh- narcan is free at the county health dept but sheriffs can't carry it... Go figure.

 

[agent00f]

It's not about your fave boogieman, Race, at all. Butler County is 91% White & the Sheriff's dept doesn't carry norcan for use on anybody. Opioid drug overdoses were the leading cause of death in the county last year-

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...doses-killed-192-butler-county-2016/98349728/

Oh, yeh- narcan is free at the county health dept but sheriffs can't carry it... Go figure.

It would be to your benefit to understand how analogies work.

 

[Jhhnn]

It would be to your benefit to understand how analogies work.

You tried to make it about Race when it's not that at all. White people are dying & the Sheriff won't do anything to help them.

 

[agent00f]

You tried to make it about Race when it's not that at all. White people are dying & the Sheriff won't do anything to help them.

It happened to be about race for Sheriff Joe (who Sea Ray brought up, btw) because he didn't like mexicans, and happens to be about certain drug users for this guy for similar reasons. However, since you brought it up the locale, I would point out that Cincinnati is in the heart of new trump country, which you appear to insist is free of racism because too many white people live there.

 

[Jhhnn]

It happened to be about race for Sheriff Joe (who Sea Ray brought up, btw) because he didn't like mexicans, and happens to be about certain drug users for this guy for similar reasons. However, since you brought it up the locale, I would point out that Cincinnati is in the heart of new trump country, which you appear to insist is free of racism because too many white people live there.

Nice straw man you have there. Race isn't what's motivating the Sheriff in Butler County. It's more like depraved indifference towards drug overdoses in general.

 

[agent00f]

Nice straw man you have there. Race isn't what's motivating the Sheriff in Butler County. It's more like depraved indifference towards drug overdoses in general.

I didn't say race was motivating the butler sheriff, just some analogous "moral" mandate to expelling "illegals". I did say however that it's erroneous to assume certain Ohioans can't be racist because too many white residents.

 

[Jhhnn]

I didn't say race was motivating the butler sheriff, just some analogous "moral" mandate to expelling "illegals". I did say however that it's erroneous to assume certain Ohioans can't be racist because too many white residents.

Yes, you did try to drag race into something that isn't about race at all. You still are.

 

[agent00f]

Yes, you did try to drag race into something that isn't about race at all. You still are.

It's just a fact it was very much about race in the similar case of Sheriff Joe whom Sea Ray brought up. But I understand, you just can't bring yourself to blame any non-aristocratic conservative for much of anything. They're the Real victims.

 

[Moonbeam]

It's just a fact it was very much about race in the similar case of Sheriff Joe whom Sea Ray brought up. But I understand, you just can't bring yourself to blame any non-aristocratic conservative for much of anything. They're the Real victims.

I see you've uncovered another Nazi apologist. Good work.

 

[agent00f]

I see you've uncovered another Nazi apologist. Good work.

No, that's just you and Jaskalas. Jhhnn only apologizes for sons of the confederacy, not the reich.

 

[Moonbeam]

No, that's just you and Jaskalas. Jhhnn only apologizes for sons of the confederacy, not the reich.

I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

 

[agent00f]

I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

Well let's hope you can sufficiently serve as a lesson to others.

 

[Puffnstuff]

You're presenting it like LEO's need to be anaesthesiologist to administer narcan. Simply isn't the case.
.EMT'S would need to go through much more training to be LEO's, which is your comparison.

There are multiple issues present surrounding this matter outside of the ease of administering the Narcan. Once you open the door to job enlargement by adding such a responsibility on LEO's then if another medical need in a different area is not addressed in the very same way then the disparity becomes a legal issue. What about diabetic shock kits which are also nonlethal? If you are going to carry something for drug abusers then you should carry something for other people, such as those who have diabetes so they can also have access to life saving medical treatment from a LEO first responder. This is why I believe that this service should be provided by EMS only.

Another thing to keep in mind when it comes to new medications is that they are driven by one thing, $$$$$, which is why every doctor's office in the land is littered with flyers and free samples to raise product awareness and promote sales.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Nah man, fuck those diabetics. They did it to themselves.

I'm assuming you're aware that insulin and narcan are not the same thing, and that providing insulin can be much more dangerous.

The claim has already been presented that giving narcan to someone who hasn't overdosed on opiates will have no effect, good or bad. Please feel free to refute that, or present a comparison that fits.

Ease of delivery and no potential to harm makes this a no brainer. Personal feeling towards drugs and drug addicts should not take the place of logic and common decency.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I'm assuming you're aware that insulin and narcan are not the same thing, and that providing insulin can be much more dangerous.

I spoke specifically about a shock kit which doesn't have insulin. My late wife was a diabetic and EMS had to come many many times to get her out of an insulin coma. Once we were able to get shock kits that stopped. My kids were adept at using the shock kit which raises the sugar levels in a diabetic returning them to consciousness. My point is that when LEO's are expected to provide that kind of service for one segment of our population they have a lawful duty to provide it for all members. Is it more ethical to provide this service to a drug user versus someone who inherited a disease? I think not.

People addicted to drugs need help breaking free from them. Coming to rescue them each time they OD only reinforces their belief that they're OK rather than encouraging them rather than to seek help. When you have to repeatedly respond to the same person for the same self induced reason something more than a rescue has to occur.

 

[ch33zw1z]

If a shock kit involves no insulin, and is so easy a child can do it, then I don't see a problem training cops to use it.

Depending on cost and space requirements, I don't know if I would be putting them in cruisers.

Users don't OD thinking "good thing the cops can save me", that's foolish to present that as common thoughts of users.

OD happens because black market drugs are not consistent, and the margin of error is slim.

LEO's are expected to protect and serve. During an opiate epidemic, I say carrying narcan fulfills those duties.

Show me the counts for diabetic shock compared to opiate OD, such as frequency of occurence. I'm not having luck on Google this morning. I did Google shock kits, but did really get where I wanted to after 15 or so minutes.