Is the sheriff right or wrong about his stand on Narcan?

[Puffnstuff]

Consider this, a drug user sees Narcan as a security blanket so they have fewer reasons to try overcoming their drug addiction. They make the choice each time they shoot up or smoke up and should have to suffer the consequences of their actions period!

 

[Victorian Gray]

Consider this, a drug user sees Narcan as a security blanket so they have fewer reasons to try overcoming their drug addiction. They make the choice each time they shoot up or smoke up and should have to suffer the consequences of their actions period!

Yes, because drug addicts are such rational, clear thinking people.

 

[zzyzxroad]

Consider this, a drug user sees Narcan as a security blanket so they have fewer reasons to try overcoming their drug addiction. They make the choice each time they shoot up or smoke up and should have to suffer the consequences of their actions period!

Don't forget popping pills. I do believe many O.D.s are still from prescription opioids. How did you get so well versed in addiction. Have you had the unfortunate experience of dealing with many? You seem like a real expert on the subject.

 

[agent00f]

I couldn't agree more. The moment I read his remarks I saw in him what I see in you, contempt of others for their inferior morality.....two absolute moral certainties that differ not one ounce in certitude or contempt, but about who has the right to it.

The truth is that neither of you have that right. The victims of your contempt need to be saved. People take opioids to escape physical and then psychic pain, to the point of death because of their terror of that pain. The sheriff can't bear the pain of compassion. He was trained to hold in contempt his own human feelings. All of it is nothing but self hate. The perp is the victim and the victim the perp. You refuse to see this because it would cost you your hate. Your hate is the one ring and it is precious to you.

Funny when not even you believe in this fake equivalency given how much you're willing to shill for the most amoral elements of society just to validate your crackpot, compared to open contempt against me for pointing that out.

 

[xthetenth]

If they are forced to carry it the city should pass an ordinance making the dopeheads attend rehab if they have to be revived for drug use. If they fail to follow through then they should be denied future services when they OD. Money is limited and the public cannot be held responsible for people who will not behave responsibly for themselves. The snowflakes can grovel all they want to but if they had to go out of pocket at a personal level each time someone deliberately used drugs they'd change their stance on this.

Narcan is vastly less expensive and more available than rehab. People are dying who are trying to get into rehab because they can't get in before their addiction comes back and they overdose.

Don't worry though, good Samaritans like you who don't want to face addiction like you don't are coming through and fighting tooth and nail against having rehab facilities, because that might bring junkies to their community. And what's saving lives when it comes to being reminded of that odious business? Funerals are a much more appropriate place to deal with the effects of addiction, no?

Consider this, a drug user sees Narcan as a security blanket so they have fewer reasons to try overcoming their drug addiction. They make the choice each time they shoot up or smoke up and should have to suffer the consequences of their actions period!

Goddamn defibrillators everywhere letting people think they might have a chance when they have a heart attack, so they can go on and have that second hot dog.

What the fuck, man. You are literally saying that one mistake in a less-than-rational mental state should be allowed to kill people because consequences really matter to people in a less-than-rational state.

 

[theeedude]

Republicans don't believe in redemption. That's why they vote to create their special version of hell at every opportunity. Then when their own kids turn to drugs to escape it, they cheer on letting them die.
They are actually very similar to Russian alcoholics, and it's not surprising that they like same kind of politics.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Consider this, a drug user sees Narcan as a security blanket so they have fewer reasons to try overcoming their drug addiction. They make the choice each time they shoot up or smoke up and should have to suffer the consequences of their actions period!

Opioid addicts dont think like that.

It's rare to smoke opium, or derivatives. The intravenous delivery made smoking a thing of the past. In USA at least.

Pills are typically crushed and snorted. Double whammy is that opioid have quite a bit of acetaminophen, which at the doses prescribed wouldn't be a problem, but people snort multiple, sometimes more than a daily allowance of acetaminophen all at once, just destroying their liver also.

The idea of addiction being a disease comes with the understanding that addiction makes the user have little to no choice over what they're doing. I support this, and prefer we fund treatment centers as opposed to prisons.

 

[preCRT]

Sheriff is dead wrong.

ALL police cars should carry Narcan, Epi-pens, and AEDS.
Lives can be saved, the education/training is minor and easily taught.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Sheriff is dead wrong.

ALL police cars should carry Narcan, Epi-pens, and AEDS.
Lives can be saved, the education/training is minor and easily taught.

So the next time an ambulance crew is passing by an armed bank robbery they should just jump right in and stop it to protect the innocents there right? Same mentality you exhibit wanting LEO's to carry medications. Give the EMT's stun guns and let em have fun.

The administration of drugs is not basic first aid nor should it be considered as a LEO responsibility any more than EMT's should be forced to carry nonlethal weapons to conduct law enforcement.

 

[shortylickens]

So the next time an ambulance crew is passing by an armed bank robbery they should just jump right in and stop it to protect the innocents there right? Same mentality you exhibit wanting LEO's to carry medications. Give the EMT's stun guns and let em have fun.

The administration of drugs is not basic first aid nor should it be considered as a LEO responsibility any more than EMT's should be forced to carry nonlethal weapons to conduct law enforcement.

Thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
But I doubt its the dumbest thing you've ever said.

 

[Moonbeam]

Funny when not even you believe in this fake equivalency given how much you're willing to shill for the most amoral elements of society just to validate your crackpot, compared to open contempt against me for pointing that out.

Your projecting your contempt for yourself on me. We differ only in that you want to get even for your pain and I live with that misery knowing the impotence of rage. Eat your hate or it will eat you.

 

[agent00f]

Your projecting your contempt for yourself on me. We differ only in that you want to get even for your pain and I live with that misery knowing the impotence of rage. Eat your hate or it will eat you.

Speaking of projecting, I mock people who deserve it for sport, not the reason you do.

 

[Moonbeam]

So the next time an ambulance crew is passing by an armed bank robbery they should just jump right in and stop it to protect the innocents there right? Same mentality you exhibit wanting LEO's to carry medications. Give the EMT's stun guns and let em have fun.

The administration of drugs is not basic first aid nor should it be considered as a LEO responsibility any more than EMT's should be forced to carry nonlethal weapons to conduct law enforcement.

Legal responsibility and moral duty are two different things and apparently for most police departments they don't conflict in this case. We are seeking here which kind of police decisions, one different from another, is a more ethical approach. In one case, some departments place life first and others, or at least one, does not. The evidence of those who have contributed to this thread dismisses your 'not a basic first aid' argument nor is your analogy analogous.

 

[Moonbeam]

Speaking of projecting, I mock people who deserve it for sport, not the reason you do.

You mock people because you are impelled to as a programmed sleeping machine. It's fun for you because you have no real being joy. That's rather sad so I'm here to help you as best I can. I have a moral duty to give you Narcan.

 

[agent00f]

You mock people because you are impelled to as a programmed sleeping machine. It's fun for you because you have no real being joy. That's rather sad so I'm here to help you as best I can. I have a moral duty to give you Narcan.

I also enjoy various other hobbies for similar reasons unrelated to hating myself, as I would expect most folks. Pretty sure you were in the minority to do everything out of self-spite, that's why it's considered an abnormal psych condition by people who diagnose those for a living.

 

[Moonbeam]

Republicans don't believe in redemption. That's why they vote to create their special version of hell at every opportunity. Then when their own kids turn to drugs to escape it, they cheer on letting them die.
They are actually very similar to Russian alcoholics, and it's not surprising that they like same kind of politics.

I think this is an important insight. If you hate yourself you will mistrust others because what we see in others is what we feel is true about ourselves. That does not mean that optimism is sometimes a way to pretend we do not feel how we feel.

It's an old question, Is humanity at core good or evil? For thousands of years people have experienced a transformative event that tells them that there is only love. I think it is the inner intuition of this truth that powers billions of people to have faith in some sort of higher truth.

 

[Moonbeam]

I also enjoy various other hobbies for similar reasons unrelated to hating myself, as I would expect most folks. Pretty sure you were in the minority to do everything out of self-spite, that's why it's considered an abnormal psych condition by people who diagnose those for a living.

Hobbies are fine. What you have is a compulsion. You will feel a need to respond to this. See if you can resist.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Sheriff is dead wrong.

ALL police cars should carry Narcan, Epi-pens, and AEDS.
Lives can be saved, the education/training is minor and easily taught.

Lives that will be wasted a day later, or a week later or a month later.

http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/01/13/opioid-prescriptions-after-overdosing

I'm kind of neutral on this one, just to play devil's advocate here, where does society draw the line on helping people who don't or won't help themselves? Surviving an overdose is in the vast majority of cases a precursor to another overdose somewhere down the line. The police or fire departments might talk a suicide down from a ledge, but when the same person is on a ledge almost every day eventually it's going to dawn on them that they're wasting their time. What's the point of saving the lives of peoples that are actively trying to kill themselves? Eventually they're going to win.


And if you really want to raise the hackles of the reflexively nanny-leaning among the self-appointed crusaders for right, ask whether society is best served by keeping habitual drug users alive or letting the situation Darwin-ize itself. The thing I find most troubling about this is that opiate overdoses are a drop in the bucket. The people dying most from habitual drug use are overwhelmingly smokers with alcoholics in second place. But when the henny-pennys are looking for a problem to lament it's overdoses. Forcibly rip a pack of cigarettes out of a smokers hand and they're going to go right back to killing themselves as soon as they can get another pack. Nobody minds that they're killing themselves in droves because the perception is that they made a conscious decision to do it, so they deserve the consequences. Cut off an alcoholic and they're going to find a different place to drink themselves to death and nobody minds. Again, the perception is that they're willingly participating in behavior that is likely to be fatal, so screw 'em, it's their choice. So why the angst about another much smaller segment of society who are committing suicide with a different drug? Why do they have to be saved when people killing themselves in other ways are not?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Actually, plenty of people care.

 

[Sunburn74]

I disagree. People make mistakes. They shouldn't have to die from them. We've all come close to killing ourselves by accident be it not the swift action of a stranger. Just think of every car accident you were almost in due to negligence on your part where a stranger saved the day.

I have no issue with narcan going to overdoses. I just understand a group of professionals pushing back against added responsibilities and liabilities without an increase in pay or benefits to match.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I just understand a group of professionals pushing back against added responsibilities and liabilities without an increase in pay or benefits to match.

Oh well, welcome to the private sector treatment.

In my town, police get pay raise every year. They're going to be the only union left standing.

 

[DisarmedDespot]

Narcan's like $40 a dose. It's really not a big deal. If he wants to let members of his own community die, that's on him.

 

[Puffnstuff]

All Narcan does is mask a major problem that needs to be addressed at its root cause. As for those who resort to name calling and insults in lieu of intelligent discussion well that's why the forum has an ignore button.😀 Based upon some of the comments I've read I'm convinced that some posters are using the very drugs we're speaking of.😛

 

[DisarmedDespot]

All Narcan does is mask a major problem that needs to be addressed at its root cause.

And until we deal with the root cause, just let people die? Come on, there's just no logical reason to not use it besides sheer callousness. The opportunity cost is $40. Narcan isn't going to solve it, but it's going to save some lives and it's better than just hoping the problem goes away.

 

[xthetenth]

So the next time an ambulance crew is passing by an armed bank robbery they should just jump right in and stop it to protect the innocents there right? Same mentality you exhibit wanting LEO's to carry medications. Give the EMT's stun guns and let em have fun.

The administration of drugs is not basic first aid nor should it be considered as a LEO responsibility any more than EMT's should be forced to carry nonlethal weapons to conduct law enforcement.

Stopping an armed bank robbery is something that has the potential to go horribly wrong if done incorrectly, much worse than if it hadn't been tried at all, and requires a good amount of training to do right. Also, the only thing at immediate risk in most cases is money, not lives. Meanwhile, you're talking about things that have been carefully designed to make them easier to use and minimize the side effects so that they either save a life or don't cause harm.

You seem to be bouncing around with different justifications, you should probably ask yourself why you're starting from the position of certainty that it shouldn't be done and those people should be allowed to die.