Is Norway a socialist state?

[Matt1970]

Somewhere in this babble, I'm guessing, is an attack on the '47%'. You do realize that the only people in your country that don't pay any taxes whatsoever would be someone who is dead. There happens to be a few more taxes than income tax.

And, you know what? In all the countries that you mention there are also people who's income is low enough that they pay no income taxes either. And, as in the US, they do end up paying other taxes (i.e. sales taxes).

So, other than bashing on poor people what was your point again?

Read and understand what you read before you comment. There is a difference between someone who pays no taxes whatsoever and someone who has zero tax liability. Yes, other countries have poor, but with a 15% sales tax in most of those countries the lower incomes pay a lot more. You think the American people are ready for an on average 7% sales tax on top of existing sales taxes to pay for all the goodies they keep drawling over?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

I was talking about welfare and entitlements.

It's like insurance. It would be available to you if you needed it. Although many free market morons believe that their lives and careers are invincible, they really aren't.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Media stereotype. It's true that a lot of Swedish women are blue-eyed blondes, but a lot of them are stocky, big-boned farmer types. I know. I even slept with two of them. At the same time.

It didn't happen without picts.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

You prove it every day indigestible. Every single day. And please, go off script once in a while. It helps make us think you're a living breathing moron.

He's so pathetic and intellectual stunted, it's becoming painful to watch at this point. It's like he's a Randroid responding with short pre-programed comments.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Read and understand what you read before you comment. There is a difference between someone who pays no taxes whatsoever and someone who has zero tax liability. Yes, other countries have poor, but with a 15% sales tax in most of those countries the lower incomes pay a lot more. You think the American people are ready for an on average 7% sales tax on top of existing sales taxes to pay for all the goodies they keep drawling over?

Who in the United States has a zero tax liability? As I stated before *everyone* in the US pays taxes of one kind or another both directly and indirectly.

You apparently went for that whole 47% crap with complete abandon.

 

[Fern]

It didn't happen without picts.

What do they have to do with it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picts



Fern

 

[norseamd]

The funny thing is that Norway could afford to lower their taxes significantly because of their oil, but instead they invest the money in a pension fund, currently worth $828.9 billion, which is pretty good for the 5.1 million citizens.

was going to say something about this earlier

they need to take that oil money and make another profitable industry

like make some shipyards or high tech industry or luxury goods or something

 

[Fern]

While I realize that I'm answering the 'macro king', for others out there, my tax rates (federal and provincial) as a single person are pretty close to what an 'average' American in the same income range would have. We can say this is a mid-middle class income

I think I'm pretty safe in saying I get a heck of a lot more back from both levels of government in terms of services and support (i.e. our single payer health insurance system, unemployment insurance system, Canada Pension Plan) for those taxes than that same 'average' American gets from their federal and state governments.

Yes, I would think so too.

But that's IS our problem and why many of don't want to pay more in taxes. If we're getting little in return for our money why would we to pay more?

Making a bad investment doesn't get better by doubling down on it.

We call that 'throwing good money after bad'.

Fern

 

[Lepton87]

If people wanted they welfare state it would be possible, but if a majority of the voters don't want it then it's not going to be implemented.

For me, having a two party system would be really frustrating, compared a multi party system.

Two party system seems more about providing an illusion of choice by differing on unimportant but emotionally loaded social issues but not differing on issues that are actually important. When you get money from the exact same entities to lobby the exact same things you aren't really that different.

 

[Matt1970]

Who in the United States has a zero tax liability? As I stated before *everyone* in the US pays taxes of one kind or another both directly and indirectly.

You apparently went for that whole 47% crap with complete abandon.

Anyone on Welfare has zero tax liability. Any taxed "paid" by them is actually just tax revenue given back to the government. As far as tax revenue is concerned, they are a net loss. It's pretty simple pal.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Yes, I would think so too.

But that's IS our problem and why many of don't want to pay more in taxes. If we're getting little in return for our money why would we to pay more?

Making a bad investment doesn't get better by doubling down on it.

We call that 'throwing good money after bad'.

Fern

I think the point should be, why aren't Americans getting more back? Perhaps things like 'too big to fail' corporate bailouts, the 'military-industrial complex and a corporate/political philosophy of socialize cost and privatize profit maybe?

As I pointed out, *my* taxes aren't much different than an equivalent American and yet *I* get back more in personal support and services.

I don't think the issue is really about spending more.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Atleast we're bombarded with socialist propaganda every day by our dear communist leaders. Oh wait...
Press Freedom Index 2014:
#1 Finland
#3 Norway
#7 Denmark
#8 Iceland
#10 Sweden

#46 the US

Incorruptible has no fucking idea what he's talking about. That fuckface is only here to troll.

Unfortunately there's a certain segment of Americans that have grown up being brainwashed that the USA is "the best country in the world" in a big blanket statement. Best at everything, apparently. Whenever they are challenged about this they will go crazy and start frothing at the mouth and rant on about "love it or leave it" or some such shit. These idiots don't realize that it's the people who have a critical mind that are the real patriots.

You'll find these dribbling morons at the local walmart buying guns in their American flag underpants.

 

[norseamd]

Unfortunately there's a certain segment of Americans that have grown up being brainwashed that the USA is "the best country in the world" in a big blanket statement. Best at everything, apparently. Whenever they are challenged about this they will go crazy and start frothing at the mouth and rant on about "love it or leave it" or some such shit. These idiots don't realize that it's the people who have a critical mind that are the real patriots. You'll find these dribbling morons at the local walmart buying guns in their American flag underpants.

that sounds like where russia is going

 

[Fern]

I think the point should be, why aren't Americans getting more back? Perhaps things like 'too big to fail' corporate bailouts, the 'military-industrial complex and a corporate/political philosophy of socialize cost and privatize profit maybe?

As I pointed out, *my* taxes aren't much different than an equivalent American and yet *I* get back more in personal support and services.

I don't think the issue is really about spending more.

Corporate bailouts? I opposed them but, in general, it seems we got most of our money back.

Yes, we simply waste a lot of money on military spending. Congress keeps buying the military stuff they don't even want.

I'm not sure what you mean by "a corporate/political philosophy of socialize cost and privatize profit" unless you're referring, again, to bailouts.

Have you seen how much the govt healthcare website cost? How about Oregon's site?

Have you seen the bazillion reports of federal employees credit card abuse (theft is a better description)? Here's an example: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Artic...deral-Workers-Abusing-Government-Credit-Cards

Did you miss the recent news of the IRS waste/abuse of funds? Employees taking exotic vacations and the agency paying for it?

have you not noticed the continual reports of the US govt 'losing' money? Here's a sample: http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jun/13/world/la-fg-missing-billions-20110613

Or this: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2014/04/04/6-Billion-goes-Missing-State-Department

Our government and its employees are corrupt as hell.

I would like to leave this country (again) but cannot, at least not yet.

Fern

 

[Matt1970]

Unfortunately there's a certain segment of Americans that have grown up being brainwashed that the USA is "the best country in the world" in a big blanket statement. Best at everything, apparently. Whenever they are challenged about this they will go crazy and start frothing at the mouth and rant on about "love it or leave it" or some such shit. These idiots don't realize that it's the people who have a critical mind that are the real patriots.

You'll find these dribbling morons at the local walmart buying guns in their American flag underpants.

Why is it you haven't moved to one of these utopia's ???

 

[Matt1970]

I think the point should be, why aren't Americans getting more back? Perhaps things like 'too big to fail' corporate bailouts, the 'military-industrial complex and a corporate/political philosophy of socialize cost and privatize profit maybe?

As I pointed out, *my* taxes aren't much different than an equivalent American and yet *I* get back more in personal support and services.

I don't think the issue is really about spending more.

I can see why you took offence to my statement now. You ARE one of those people that cause a net loss in tax revenue yet you think things are unfair for you.

 

[Vic]

I can see why you took offence to my statement now. You ARE one of those people that cause a net loss in tax revenue yet you think things are unfair for you.

That's not what he said. He pointed out that Americans and Canadians pay about the same in taxes, but Canadians actually get something for what they pay while Americans really don't.
Fern already addressed why this is. Because American government is corrupt and wasteful. I agree and would like to add that another reason is because many Americans have been mislead into believing that they shouldn't expect anything from their government, or that to do so is somehow socialist.

 

[flexy]

I always laugh at the ignorant premise that "socialism" implies (according to the troll) "stealing from the hard working and giving to the leeches".

If this was the case, especially in those so called "socialist" countries like Norway, Denmark, Sweden incl. Germany there would be HUGE gaps between the alleged leeches who are freeloading and the "hard working others" from whom money is stolen.

IRONICALLY, this gap is actually the biggest in the US, the country where people live the delusion/illusion that it's not really "socialist" in some way.

As to my knowledge there is no "split society" in Norway, Denmark etc. where a percentage of the populace (like in the US) thinks its getting "robbed" and money is allegedly going to some "who are not entitled to it" since they are "leeching".

The irony: IN PARTICULAR in those most "socialist" countries, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland etc. a BIG percentage of people are actually WORKING IN/FOR the government..... in those countries it is a whopping 30% of the populace who are working for the government.

Basically, in a perfect world, indeed "everyone" would profit from this "socialism" and it is insofar true that in those "socialist" countries Joe Average

* has free health care
* has free access to education
* has a higher standard of living

So in other words, yes, it's as simple as that "they know better how to use tax money" because it very real benefits the society as a whole. I have up-to-date not come across people from Norway who criticized their system nor do I even have a remote impression that people from those countries are "unhappy", the opposite actually. (Not counting the climate, obviously)

Also..for the troll(s), which fortunately here on AT are in very low numbers as compared to some other sites...when you say that in those countries money "is stolen from hard working taxpayers" I would appreciate it giving some real examples of people living in Norway, Denmark etc. for whom "their socialist system" and the alleged fact that money is "stolen from them" is a problem. Otherwise you're just talking out your ass about things you know nothing about.

 

[flexy]

By the way, this is also an issue of the ever present Black/White thinking mentality in the US where it seems that only opposite extremes exist.

* There is a divide between "normal people" and "the government". Obviously, when the government does something, be it intervening in some way, higher taxes, this and that it's seen as something negative.

* There is a divide between those who assume themselves the "hard working ones" who are entitled to this and that and those "who are not hard working" and seen as "non entitled" leeches.

In a perfect (utopian) socialist society, this divide DOESN'T EVEN EXIST. It might very real not exist in Norway, Denmark etc. seeing eg. that 1/3 of people in fact *are* the government and people know that "the government" and whatever it does benefits them. (I have no reason to believe otherwise!)

Saying this is so simply because, oh yes, "the leeches are of course happy because they get their free money" etc. is just stupid ignorance and denying the fact that their system indeed WORKS. You don't get one of the highest GDPs in the world, HDI index, living standard etc. from a system that doesn't work, simple as that.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I can see why you took offence to my statement now. You ARE one of those people that cause a net loss in tax revenue yet you think things are unfair for you.

What the heck are you babbling about now?

Why in the world are you claiming that I think things are unfair for me?

I just stated that I felt I get a fair return in services and support for my taxes by both federal and provincial levels of govt.

I pay my taxes and get support and services in return. My govt. acting as it should for me and my fellow citizens.

How is this a problem?

 

[Lepton87]

Saying this is so simply because, oh yes, "the leeches are of course happy because they get their free money" etc. is just stupid ignorance and denying the fact that their system indeed WORKS. You don't get one of the highest GDPs in the world, HDI index, living standard etc. from a system that doesn't work, simple as that.

I agree that attributing the satisfaction with life that people have with getting free things from the government is ignorant to put it mildly. There's a lot of factors that contribute to feeling happy that have nothing to do with free things or even material goods as a whole. People need safety whether real or imagined. Nordic countries are relatively safe with a low crime rate along with low number of car accidents. Both are important for people's perception of safety. Then there is financial safety that through extensive safety net Nordic countries also provide. Having confidence in the quality of healthcare that you receive instead of worrying about getting any treatment at all is also very good for being happy. Having a short workday can't hurt either. They really need all those things to make up for that weather

 

[KMFJD]

Atleast we're bombarded with socialist propaganda every day by our dear communist leaders. Oh wait...
Press Freedom Index 2014:
#1 Finland
#3 Norway
#7 Denmark
#8 Iceland
#10 Sweden

#46 the US

Incorruptible has no fucking idea what he's talking about. That fuckface is only here to troll.

Have you ever had a look at his posting history?

 

[TROLLERCAUST]

They really need all those things to make up for that weather

Hey, it's not that bad. Right now it's +1 and snowing. Lovely. :thumbsup: It's been a super warm winter, there's barely any snow left on the ground.

Have you ever had a look at his posting history?

No. I won't bother with trolls.

 

[AViking]

Read and understand what you read before you comment. There is a difference between someone who pays no taxes whatsoever and someone who has zero tax liability. Yes, other countries have poor, but with a 15% sales tax in most of those countries the lower incomes pay a lot more. You think the American people are ready for an on average 7% sales tax on top of existing sales taxes to pay for all the goodies they keep drawling over?

In Sweden we pay 25% sales tax on goods. They aren't as materialistic though.

On food our sales tax is 12% though and for books, newspapers, exercise it's 6%

If you are constantly looking at this topic as how much money you have then you're missing the WHOLE point. The question you should be asking is what would lead to a better life. Does more money give you a better life or do tax benefits give you a better life? 90% or more of the population will get a better life from more tax benefits. The other 10% can probably buy whatever they want so to them the money is better in their pocket. The question is then if that 10% is willing to give up some of their money in order to live in a much more healthy and happy society.

I hope that one day America will get it. Before it becomes a 3rd world nation with any luck.

 

[Thebobo]

Unfortunately there's a certain segment of Americans that have grown up being brainwashed that the USA is "the best country in the world" in a big blanket statement. Best at everything, apparently. Whenever they are challenged about this they will go crazy and start frothing at the mouth and rant on about "love it or leave it" or some such shit. These idiots don't realize that it's the people who have a critical mind that are the real patriots.

You'll find these dribbling morons at the local walmart buying guns in their American flag underpants.

America FUCK YEA!