Is Mexico a parasite on the USA?

[Stark]

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK

No, you are the one that should get over it because it is a fact!!! It wasn't a donation, was it??? It was robbery!!! But I didn't even mentioned the USA anywhere in that post, so you reached the conclusion yourself...... We are over it, it is past, but it is an undeniable FACT!!!

Oh man. It's amazing how you can claim the United States stole Mexico's land, but I guess Mexico didn't steal anybodys land of course. Oh right, you don't care about that do you.

See:
Mexican American War
Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (ratified by US AND Mexican Congresses)
$15 million paid to Mexico paid as compensation for annexed territory

I'm suprised nobody has brought up Mexico's long standing historical relationship with socialism and their third world status. The PAN party and Fox are supposed to be a sign that the old PRI days are over, but are Fox's ideas of an open border and support of ILLEGAL workers the alternative?
short history/commentary

 

[AvesPKS]

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cKOh man. It's amazing how you can claim the United States stole Mexico's land, but I guess Mexico didn't steal anybodys land of course. Oh right, you don't care about that do you.

Well, then PROVE it....... What land did we steal????

Following your beliefs of whoever was there first, owns the land...

Lemme see, just like the United States, you stole land from the native tribes. I'm sure the Mexican government today is representative of them huh? You don't think there were non-Mexican people living in Southwest United States also?

Like I said, you're "we were here first" belief is flawed. If every country was to follow that policy, I don't think any country would exist.

He does have a point. Americans displaced their native population, and assume a completely different identity from the native one. In Mexico (while I am by no means saying that the conquistadors did not kill any natives), it was more of a process of integration. Mexicans are Mexicans, and can probably claim some native ethnicity (unless you're spanish, and then you really don't have much more of a claim than us).

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
The Mexican people are great.

The Mexican Government is nothing but a giant pimple on the ass of the USA.

That's my sentiments in a nutshell

 

[AvesPKS]

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: AvesPKS
Ok. It looks like he talked to the migrant from Guerrero in Xochimilco, a shantytown fifteen miles south of Mexico City. He talked to the woman and the governemnt ex-minister in Mexico City. I also anticipate you criticizing this person because he lives in a shantytown...but doesn't the fact that shantytowns exist there, and that the shantytown was an improvement from where he came from, indicate something about the state of things in Mexico?

Nested quotes deleted.....

You keep making the generalization.... I said it, we have problems but we are not blind to them. We have lots of god, bad and worse places..... as you have also (don't tell that downtown Detroit is a nice place to live.....) Our proportion of bad places outnumbers the good ones, that is all! Saying "the whole country" is totally retarded, and that is the perception a lot of people have!!

Ahh, the infamous "corruption myth"...

First, you say this. I then respond with a series of quotes depicting this "myth."

That author should go and visit the country, and experience it first hand..... A lot of myth here.

Then, you say this, again calling what these quotes contain a "myth." I mean, I don't understand it. Are you flat out calling this author, and myself, a liar? Or are you going to admit that these quotes do not contain "myths"?

 

[Nitemare]

By your definition. They are neither parasitic or symbiotic.

They provide cheap labor and do jobs that most Americans would classify as beneath them for a great price so that Americans can collect welfare checks, do nothing and get drunk in their trailer parks while spawning kids for more money.

Welfare recipients are parasitic and should be cut off not hard working Mexicans

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cKOh man. It's amazing how you can claim the United States stole Mexico's land, but I guess Mexico didn't steal anybodys land of course. Oh right, you don't care about that do you.

Well, then PROVE it....... What land did we steal????

Following your beliefs of whoever was there first, owns the land...

Lemme see, just like the United States, you stole land from the native tribes. I'm sure the Mexican government today is representative of them huh? You don't think there were non-Mexican people living in Southwest United States also?

Like I said, you're "we were here first" belief is flawed. If every country was to follow that policy, I don't think any country would exist.

Well, touche!!!

I got you! We, as Mexicans, are in fact the MIX of the spaniards and the native tribes. I am on your side, the spaniards stole the country.... But they mixed also with the people, resulting in a new race called "MESTIZOS". This new race, technically, was born in the country so they owned the land, not to mention that they were born also from the original owners of the land (the native cultures), so they can claim inheritance... ! Were the spaniards robbers? Yes, they stole the land and devastated the country. Did Mexicans as a new race/culture steal the land? No, because they are born from the original owners.... just following your logic.
The situation in latinamerica was quite unique, as in almost all the places the colonialists didn't mix with the native people.....

 

[AvesPKS]

Originally posted by: Stark

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK

No, you are the one that should get over it because it is a fact!!! It wasn't a donation, was it??? It was robbery!!! But I didn't even mentioned the USA anywhere in that post, so you reached the conclusion yourself...... We are over it, it is past, but it is an undeniable FACT!!!

Oh man. It's amazing how you can claim the United States stole Mexico's land, but I guess Mexico didn't steal anybodys land of course. Oh right, you don't care about that do you.

See:
Mexican American War
Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (ratified by US AND Mexican Congresses)
$15 million paid to Mexico paid as compensation for annexed territory

I'm suprised nobody has brought up Mexico's long standing historical relationship with socialism and their third world status. The PAN party and Fox are supposed to be a sign that the old PRI days are over, but are Fox's ideas of an open border and support of ILLEGAL workers the alternative?
short history/commentary

I mean, though, still, seriously, come on. He does kind of have a point. I don't really care how we obtained the land. It doesn't bother me in the least. But don't try to justify the annexation of Mexican territory by saying we "paid" for it. Also, do you think that our military defeat of them had anything to do with their ratification of this treaty?

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: Stark

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK

No, you are the one that should get over it because it is a fact!!! It wasn't a donation, was it??? It was robbery!!! But I didn't even mentioned the USA anywhere in that post, so you reached the conclusion yourself...... We are over it, it is past, but it is an undeniable FACT!!!

Oh man. It's amazing how you can claim the United States stole Mexico's land, but I guess Mexico didn't steal anybodys land of course. Oh right, you don't care about that do you.

See:
Mexican American War
Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (ratified by US AND Mexican Congresses)
$15 million paid to Mexico paid as compensation for annexed territory

I'm suprised nobody has brought up Mexico's long standing historical relationship with socialism and their third world status. The PAN party and Fox are supposed to be a sign that the old PRI days are over, but are Fox's ideas of an open border and support of ILLEGAL workers the alternative?
short history/commentary

The $15 millions given was as a "compensation".... it never reflected the true value of the land. If the intention was to buy the land, why invade?

Also, if I recall it correctly, the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo covers ONLY the piece of land called "El Chamizal", a tiny piece 15000 sq km big.... I don't remember that as a fact, so if anyone can bring the text we can clear it out.

 

[Dragnov]

He does have a point. Americans displaced their native population, and assume a completely different identity from the native one. In Mexico (while I am by no means saying that the conquistadors did not kill any natives), it was more of a process of integration. Mexicans are Mexicans, and can probably claim some native ethnicity (unless you're spanish, and then you really don't have much more of a claim than us).

Okay. I don't really have much to add, because I don't really have anything agains't what you said. In fact, I really didn't even care to debate the U.S./Mexico relationship. All I wanted to say is that the Southwest U.S. is not Mexico, and will not be part of Mexico for the forseeable future. If people want to claim the US "stole" the land than so be it, just about every country that exists "stole" it's land then. Therefore, get over it. (The British aren't whining that the East Coast of the U.S. is still part of Britian do they?) We are ALL immigrants, therefore it is absurd to claim ones territory based on who was there first.

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: AvesPKS

Then, you say this, again calling what these quotes contain a "myth." I mean, I don't understand it. Are you flat out calling this author, and myself, a liar? Or are you going to admit that these quotes do not contain "myths"?

As myth, I mean that the general perception is "Corruption is the ONLY way the goverment works...... " Very different from reality. Yes, I am calling the aouthor a liar, as he said "the police are the robbers...." there are several bad elements in the police that protect the robbers (too many maybe, but don't tell that doesn't exist up there....) However, there is a complete different concept between "police are the robbers" and "a lot of police elements are/protect the robbers" It depends a lot in geographical location, as some places are worse than others. So, when the generalization is made, it becomes a LIE.... I gues, anyway, that we are reaching common ground.

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK

Okay. I don't really have much to add, because I don't really have anything agains't what you said. In fact, I really didn't even care to debate the U.S./Mexico relationship. All I wanted to say is that the Southwest U.S. is not Mexico, and will not be part of Mexico for the forseeable future. If people want to claim the US "stole" the land than so be it, just about every country that exists "stole" it's land then. Therefore, get over it. (The British aren't whining that the East Coast of the U.S. is still part of Britian do they?) We are ALL immigrants, therefore it is absurd to claim ones territory based on who was there first.

I don't know why a lot of people in the USA get paranoind about the fact that such land was stolen. It is a fact. I never said "give us the land"...... Did I? I also pointed how we didn't steal our land..... Yes, that belongs to the past, but just as some historic events are facts even if some people feel uncomfortbale, this is one of them. period.

We are neighbors, and we are the largest commercial partner of the USA (or second, depends on the month....) We should see each other as that, as partners, but when some hamburguer-eater-TV-watcher comes here with a stupid statement or question I don't like it.

 

[friedpie]

Originally posted by: MacBaine
They do the jobs you would never do.

Bullcrap.

Who collects your garbage? Who does the hideous laundry at hospitals, or changes bedpans in nursing homes? There are dozens of lowpaying, hard and or disgusting jobs out there that ordinary people have been doing for decades. Picking fruit is not the only one. BTW, in the eastern US, mexicans are doing more construction work than fruit picking.

 

[andyfasthands]

Instead of Mexican Immigration, it should simply be referred to as the Importing of Labor. How much do you think the US in general imports (sending out money to other countries) in technology goods? Fashion goods? European autos? Mexican labor IS vital to the economy only because they do inexpensive QUALITY work in niche sectors. Instead of being glamourized they are constantly being crapped on by incompetant, unqualified fools like Stark.

 

[Stark]

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: AvesPKS
Ok. It looks like he talked to the migrant from Guerrero in Xochimilco, a shantytown fifteen miles south of Mexico City. He talked to the woman and the governemnt ex-minister in Mexico City. I also anticipate you criticizing this person because he lives in a shantytown...but doesn't the fact that shantytowns exist there, and that the shantytown was an improvement from where he came from, indicate something about the state of things in Mexico?

Nested quotes deleted.....

You keep making the generalization.... I said it, we have problems but we are not blind to them. We have lots of god, bad and worse places..... as you have also (don't tell that downtown Detroit is a nice place to live.....) Our proportion of bad places outnumbers the good ones, that is all! Saying "the whole country" is totally retarded, and that is the perception a lot of people have!!

the problem with your example is that you can drive 15 minutes from downtown Detroit and be in a decent, first world area. If you drive 15 minutes from anywhere in mexico you are still in third-world mexico (except maybe TJ where you can be in SD).

I've been to Tijuana, Rosarito, Ensenada, Cabo San Lucas, San Jose del Cabo, Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, Acapulco, and Cosumel. (I like to contribute to that tourist industry). Each place I've been, I can clearly see that I am in Mexico... dirty, smelly, third world, cinder-block construction, street hustling, vw bug-driving, homeless kids chiclete selling, MEXICO. Panama feels different. Costa Rica feels different. Places in the Caribbean feel different. But Mexico is Mexico, and if it wasn't cheap and the food wasn't good, it wouldn't be worth visiting. Maybe there's a special place inland somewhere that goes against everything I've seen, but I doubt it.

Some of the countryside in mexico is beautiful, but where it's developed, it's clearly inferior to the US, Canada, Europe, and many other Latin American countries. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: Stark

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK

No, you are the one that should get over it because it is a fact!!! It wasn't a donation, was it??? It was robbery!!! But I didn't even mentioned the USA anywhere in that post, so you reached the conclusion yourself...... We are over it, it is past, but it is an undeniable FACT!!!

Oh man. It's amazing how you can claim the United States stole Mexico's land, but I guess Mexico didn't steal anybodys land of course. Oh right, you don't care about that do you.

See:
Mexican American War
Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (ratified by US AND Mexican Congresses)
$15 million paid to Mexico paid as compensation for annexed territory

I'm suprised nobody has brought up Mexico's long standing historical relationship with socialism and their third world status. The PAN party and Fox are supposed to be a sign that the old PRI days are over, but are Fox's ideas of an open border and support of ILLEGAL workers the alternative?
short history/commentary

I cannot believe the post results.... well, whows the average level of knowledge of the typical AT.....

That link is utter garbage.... but what could I expect from a brainwashed TV watcher???

I bet ONLY a few people here know exactly what the objective of communis/socialism is, and I bet NOBODY has ever read the memories of Ernesto Guevara de la Serna.... (that is "El Che"Guevara, one of the men with the highest integrity form the last century..... but not available to you because he was a commie, and commies are bad.....)

The victory of PAN was a result of a lot of people finally getting fed up and casting their votes.... the PRI was able to stay in power because people were too lazy to vote!

 

[andyfasthands]

Originally posted by: friedpie

Originally posted by: MacBaine
They do the jobs you would never do.

Bullcrap.

Who collects your garbage? Who does the hideous laundry at hospitals, or changes bedpans in nursing homes? There are dozens of lowpaying, hard and or disgusting jobs out there that ordinary people have been doing for decades. Picking fruit is not the only one. BTW, in the eastern US, mexicans are doing more construction work than fruit picking.

There is a difference between "unpleasant" and difficult jobs.

 

[friedpie]

If they send $6 Billion dollars back to Mexico, aren't they simply draining our economy?

Don't forget all the health care resources they use up. Many border towns are near bankruptcy because of all the illegals draining the health care resources. You and I will pay for it through increased insurance and the like.

 

[andyfasthands]

Originally posted by: Stark

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: AvesPKS
Ok. It looks like he talked to the migrant from Guerrero in Xochimilco, a shantytown fifteen miles south of Mexico City. He talked to the woman and the governemnt ex-minister in Mexico City. I also anticipate you criticizing this person because he lives in a shantytown...but doesn't the fact that shantytowns exist there, and that the shantytown was an improvement from where he came from, indicate something about the state of things in Mexico?

Nested quotes deleted.....

You keep making the generalization.... I said it, we have problems but we are not blind to them. We have lots of god, bad and worse places..... as you have also (don't tell that downtown Detroit is a nice place to live.....) Our proportion of bad places outnumbers the good ones, that is all! Saying "the whole country" is totally retarded, and that is the perception a lot of people have!!

the problem with your example is that you can drive 15 minutes from downtown Detroit and be in a decent, first world area. If you drive 15 minutes from anywhere in mexico you are still in third-world mexico (except maybe TJ where you can be in SD).

I've been to Tijuana, Rosarito, Ensenada, Cabo San Lucas, San Jose del Cabo, Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, Acapulco, and Cosumel. (I like to contribute to that tourist industry). Each place I've been, I can clearly see that I am in Mexico... dirty, smelly, third world, cinder-block construction, street hustling, vw bug-driving, homeless kids chiclete selling, MEXICO. Panama feels different. Costa Rica feels different. Places in the Caribbean feel different. But Mexico is Mexico, and if it wasn't cheap and the food wasn't good, it wouldn't be worth visiting. Maybe there's a special place inland somewhere that goes against everything I've seen, but I doubt it.

Some of the countryside in mexico is beautiful, but where it's developed, it's clearly inferior to the US, Canada, Europe, and many other Latin American countries. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

You aren't even staying on the topic of your own thread. You are clearly a discriminatory racist.

 

[andyfasthands]

The productivity of Mexican labor is accounted for in our GDP. How can it be considered parasitic? Profits are made from their willingless to work at such low wages. Way more than $6B.

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: Stark

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: AvesPKS
Ok. It looks like he talked to the migrant from Guerrero in Xochimilco, a shantytown fifteen miles south of Mexico City. He talked to the woman and the governemnt ex-minister in Mexico City. I also anticipate you criticizing this person because he lives in a shantytown...but doesn't the fact that shantytowns exist there, and that the shantytown was an improvement from where he came from, indicate something about the state of things in Mexico?

Nested quotes deleted.....

You keep making the generalization.... I said it, we have problems but we are not blind to them. We have lots of god, bad and worse places..... as you have also (don't tell that downtown Detroit is a nice place to live.....) Our proportion of bad places outnumbers the good ones, that is all! Saying "the whole country" is totally retarded, and that is the perception a lot of people have!!

the problem with your example is that you can drive 15 minutes from downtown Detroit and be in a decent, first world area. If you drive 15 minutes from anywhere in mexico you are still in third-world mexico (except maybe TJ where you can be in SD).

I've been to Tijuana, Rosarito, Ensenada, Cabo San Lucas, San Jose del Cabo, Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, Acapulco, and Cosumel. (I like to contribute to that tourist industry). Each place I've been, I can clearly see that I am in Mexico... dirty, smelly, third world, cinder-block construction, street hustling, vw bug-driving, homeless kids chiclete selling, MEXICO. Panama feels different. Costa Rica feels different. Places in the Caribbean feel different. But Mexico is Mexico, and if it wasn't cheap and the food wasn't good, it wouldn't be worth visiting. Maybe there's a special place inland somewhere that goes against everything I've seen, but I doubt it.

Some of the countryside in mexico is beautiful, but where it's developed, it's clearly inferior to the US, Canada, Europe, and many other Latin American countries. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

Well, obviously you have been only in the beaches and tourist sites..... I agree, they are miserable.
Have you tried visiting Queretaro, Puebla, Leon, Aguascalientes, Toluca, Guanajuato just to mention a few?? The same 15 minutes drive put you in decent places (well, more like 30 minutes) It is a shame people parrot because they have been to a beach or resort..... Worth visiting??? We have on of the richest cultures in the world, but as I said, you need to be very fluent in Spanish to see things that the average tourist will never experience.....

 

[Stark]

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: Gr1mL0cK

Okay. I don't really have much to add, because I don't really have anything agains't what you said. In fact, I really didn't even care to debate the U.S./Mexico relationship. All I wanted to say is that the Southwest U.S. is not Mexico, and will not be part of Mexico for the forseeable future. If people want to claim the US "stole" the land than so be it, just about every country that exists "stole" it's land then. Therefore, get over it. (The British aren't whining that the East Coast of the U.S. is still part of Britian do they?) We are ALL immigrants, therefore it is absurd to claim ones territory based on who was there first.

I don't know why a lot of people in the USA get paranoind about the fact that such land was stolen. It is a fact. I never said "give us the land"...... Did I? I also pointed how we didn't steal our land..... Yes, that belongs to the past, but just as some historic events are facts even if some people feel uncomfortbale, this is one of them. period.

We are neighbors, and we are the largest commercial partner of the USA (or second, depends on the month....) We should see each other as that, as partners, but when some hamburguer-eater-TV-watcher comes here with a stupid statement or question I don't like it.

And history has shown that Polk, Manifest Destiny and the Mexian-American war are the best things to ever happen to the western states (see my previous post).

The actions of the President of the United States have a profound impact on America's foreign relations. However, in some instances, the actions of the people have an even more profound impact. This was certainly the case with the Mexican-War. The settling of Texas and other western areas played a major role in the war that would be fought between America and Mexico. But why would these settlers knowingly move west of America's present boundaries, and even into foreign territory? The answer is simple: economics. By moving ahead of "official" settlement in the U.S. proper, these Americans were hoping to "get in on the beginning of the price rise" (Lavender 127). In other words, these people wanted to sell the land at high prices when it became part of the United States. There were also plentiful trade opportunities as well as a distressing power vacuum out west. What made these settlers and traders think the land would one day be part of the America? History up to that time showed how America had constantly expanded westward across the continent. America showed no signs of stopping anytime soon. The idealistic concept of Manifest Destiny also convinced people to move West. For them, certain parts of North America were simply "destined" to become part of the United States; the French, English, Spanish, Mexicans, Russians and the Indians be damned (Newhouse 142).

The forward thinking settlers simply presumed that America would eventually assume their new lands. Then they could sell the land at higher prices to farmers, plantation owners, or whomever when the land finally was part of the United States. In effect, these settlers were waiting for America to "catch up" to them (Lavender 127).

What is role of President Polk and Tyler in all of this? Surely, their actions played a large role in the Mexican-American War. This fact cannot be denied. But what was the motivation for these actions? Why did Tyler want Texas so badly? Obviously, he wanted to be the President for four more years. But it goes deeper than that. The question of Texan annexation would not have come up if there had not already been Americans settling and causing problems (from the Mexican perspective) in Texas. These settlers were in Texas due to the reasons mentioned earlier: economics and the arrogant Manifest Destiny. Why did Polk promise California and Oregon to the voters? He did this because Americans were already there and because of the massive economic potential in these areas.

The westward movement of Americans and Manifest Destiny have been established as the overall causes for the Mexican-War. However, it is important to examine, and perhaps refute, some other possible causes of the war.

During and after the war, many in the United States placed the majority of the blame for the Mexican-American War squarely on the shoulders of Mexico. There may be a grain of truth in this ultra-patriotic view (Combs 99). President Polk sent troops under General Zachary Taylor to the region between the Rio Grande and Nueces Rivers. Texas believed that its southern boundary was represented by the Rio Grande River. The Mexicans, however, did not acknowledge this boundary and instead believed that it was the Nueces River. So, the Americans believed they were on Texan (soon to be American) soil, while the Mexicans believed that the Americans were on Mexican soil (Lavender 130). When Mexican forces attacked the Americans in this region, Polk believed that Mexico "invaded our territory, and shed American blood upon the American soil" (Richardson 442). With this information in hand, Polk proceeded to ask the Congress for a declaration of war, which he received easily. However, according to Polk's diary and other sources, he planned to ask Congress for a declaration before word of the Mexican "attack" ever reached Washington (Quaife 386). Refuting this "Mexico's Fault" theory even more is the fact that the government of Mexico at this time was in a period of chaos (Garraty and Gay 811). Still, the attack proved an effective scapegoat for not only Polk, but many other pro-war politicians.

The Mexicans can not be totally blamed for this war. The attack that many patriots were so fond of using as justification for the war was simply an attempt by Mexico to defend land that it believed belonged to Mexico. Of course, Mexico could have responded in a more peaceful manner to the idea of Texas annexation. And Mexico could have responded better to American desires to purchase California and other areas of the Southwest (Lavender 130). If only it could be as easy as the Louisiana Purchase had been, Polk must have thought.

link

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: friedpie

Originally posted by: MacBaine
They do the jobs you would never do.

Bullcrap.

Who collects your garbage? Who does the hideous laundry at hospitals, or changes bedpans in nursing homes? There are dozens of lowpaying, hard and or disgusting jobs out there that ordinary people have been doing for decades. Picking fruit is not the only one. BTW, in the eastern US, mexicans are doing more construction work than fruit picking.

Mexicans do landscaping at our apartment complex, they pick up trash and clean where I work and they expand the interstate on which I drive on everyday. There is a Columbian who barely speaks English where I get my hair cut

They pick the fruits and vegetables that we eat. If it was not for them I would be getting paid less because we had to pay more for lazier employees and my food would cost more because I had to pay someone a nice sum to pick it or cook it. Bring in the hardworking Mexicans and cut off welfare entirely. Let those lazy fvcks starve to death. Issue the Mexicans tax payer id numbers and grant them citizenship in "x amount" of years

No thanks. I say welcome to America.

 

[andyfasthands]

That article has nothing to do with the "American people" or "economics," only the American half-assed arrogance that stems from ideas of white supremecy. All I see is a political argument, with claims made from American second-hand sources. Get some real primary sources from the Mexican writers during that era and maybe you'd have a better argument, Stark. Poorly written.

 

[Stark]

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: Stark

Originally posted by: alexruiz

Originally posted by: AvesPKS
Ok. It looks like he talked to the migrant from Guerrero in Xochimilco, a shantytown fifteen miles south of Mexico City. He talked to the woman and the governemnt ex-minister in Mexico City. I also anticipate you criticizing this person because he lives in a shantytown...but doesn't the fact that shantytowns exist there, and that the shantytown was an improvement from where he came from, indicate something about the state of things in Mexico?

Nested quotes deleted.....

You keep making the generalization.... I said it, we have problems but we are not blind to them. We have lots of god, bad and worse places..... as you have also (don't tell that downtown Detroit is a nice place to live.....) Our proportion of bad places outnumbers the good ones, that is all! Saying "the whole country" is totally retarded, and that is the perception a lot of people have!!

the problem with your example is that you can drive 15 minutes from downtown Detroit and be in a decent, first world area. If you drive 15 minutes from anywhere in mexico you are still in third-world mexico (except maybe TJ where you can be in SD).

I've been to Tijuana, Rosarito, Ensenada, Cabo San Lucas, San Jose del Cabo, Mazatlan, Puerto Vallarta, Acapulco, and Cosumel. (I like to contribute to that tourist industry). Each place I've been, I can clearly see that I am in Mexico... dirty, smelly, third world, cinder-block construction, street hustling, vw bug-driving, homeless kids chiclete selling, MEXICO. Panama feels different. Costa Rica feels different. Places in the Caribbean feel different. But Mexico is Mexico, and if it wasn't cheap and the food wasn't good, it wouldn't be worth visiting. Maybe there's a special place inland somewhere that goes against everything I've seen, but I doubt it.

Some of the countryside in mexico is beautiful, but where it's developed, it's clearly inferior to the US, Canada, Europe, and many other Latin American countries. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

Well, obviously you have been only in the beaches and tourist sites..... I agree, they are miserable.
Have you tried visiting Queretaro, Puebla, Leon, Aguascalientes, Toluca, Guanajuato just to mention a few?? The same 15 minutes drive put you in decent places (well, more like 30 minutes) It is a shame people parrot because they have been to a beach or resort..... Worth visiting??? We have on of the richest cultures in the world, but as I said, you need to be very fluent in Spanish to see things that the average tourist will never experience.....

You're probably right. I'll put those on my list of places to see.

Alex, I hope you understand that I don't hate or hold any grudges against the Mexican people. However, the ideas being procaimed by Fox (open borders) and put into law by our corrupt and inept California legislature are very frustrating. Laws should mean something, and right now it seems like they don't to the people creating new laws.

 

[andyfasthands]

At the bottom of Stark's link:

Notice: You are welcome to read and use any of the above material, but I make no guarantees as to the quality, credibility, or accuracy of the information and anaylsis. In other words, use at your own risk.

John Heys, AP U.S. History (1995)
jheys@oasis.novia.net

(Mario's note: I found this article on the web and found it to be quite accurate. It was written by an American High School student.)