is it possible to lose fat and gain muscle at once?

[xtknight]

I find that after I eat rice/baked chicken I immediately feel ready to work out. So do I need to eat even more of it after I work out or what?

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek


Well yeah, but the sandwhich is also my lunch. In addition to that I am a poor college kid...

-Kevin

Have you considered tuna packs? They are around a buck at walmart. You merely tear open the package and dig in with a spoon. The small ones have about 20g of protein and they keep forever.

No I haven't, but now that you mention it I definitely will. Parents weekend is on Nov. 2 so Ill hold out until then

-Kevin

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: xtknight
I find that after I eat rice/baked chicken I immediately feel ready to work out. So do I need to eat even more of it after I work out or what?

No not at all if your goals are just to stay fit.

 

[rmrfhomeoops]

This base on my experience and guess only:

When I first working out I have at one point after couple months stop losing weight no matter what. Yet at the same time I was getting stronger and look leaner. Couple of my friends/gym rats, also have experience this earlier when they first working out as well. From what I can conclude from experience, the optimum condition for gaining muscle while losing fat is possible under these conditions,

Starting point: Lazy couch potatoes with addiction to junk foods
Weight: 30%+ body fat for men.
diet: Pizza, sweets, and deep fried foods. Lots of excess calories espeically late in the day.
routine: most strenous task, walking from car at parking lot to office.
sleep: irregular

First starting working out (2-3months)
diet: high protein, complex carbs in the morning to afternoon and only protein in the evening (little complex carbs & fibers). Little healthy fat such as mono-saturated fat & omega-3 fatty acid. Sufficient maintenance calories (+/- 200 calories).
routine: workout 4 times week. Each session progressive increase the weight. Use weight that one can only achive 6-8 reps.
Sleep: consistent 8-9 hours/day.

The later condition requires one's body to adapt either through CNS or muscle gain. The complex carbs + proteins mainly goes to build/maintain muscle while the fat cells is mainly used to to maintain basic activities (walking, sitting, breathing etc). When those two conditions are met, the chance of losing fat while gaining muscle greatly increased.

 

[allies]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: sash1
Running builds leg muscle and burns fat?

You still need a surplus of calories to build ANY muscle.

If you get a decent equilibrium working you should be able to build muscle and burn fat. However it is much, MUCH easier to build muscle while eating bunches of extra calories and then cut the fat to show muscle gains.

 

[thatsright]

Originally posted by: dpopiz
people seem to be split about this...
anyone have some scientific facts?

Yes, its called exercise

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: alkemyst
It's sort of a yes or no.

Yes you can get stronger and lose fat. Especially if new to training.

However, your max lifts will go down quite a bit on a cutting diet. Say I can do 100lb dumbbells for 6-8 reps while bulking...about a week after I cut my food intake down, I may only be able to get 2-4 reps out of that or even have to drop weight to 90-95lbs.

When most in the scene are talking muscle though, they are talking mass. So YMMV on what you are looking for.

In general, most people are better off cutting first, then adding muscle. Most will not do what it takes to put on serious mass anyway. If your bodyfat is already in the low teens as a male and you are not defined enough for your personal wants then no about of cutting will help.
You best bet will come from a 3 day a week program consisting of nothing more than the basics: bench press, squats, deadlifts....throwing power cleans in there is a good idea, but really optional at the starting point. If you want to throw a set of curls or something in feel free but know you are going to gain mass everywhere on your body sticking to the basics in the beginning. After 6-12 months of that and serious eating and sleeping, you should now be able to tell where you need work and where you are may be over-developing.

This is assuming you want to just get big and strong looking....various activities may preclude this from being your goal...but early power lifting can help even light weight gymnasts later on.

Why would you say the part I have bolded? I have been cutting for a few months now trying to get <10% bf. I am probably at about 12-13% right now. Why would you say I can't get any lower?

I didn't say that.

I said if you are not defined enough at that bodyfat, it makes no sense to go lower.

You can go as low as you'd want on bodyfat. Just doesn't make the best body.

 

[alkemyst]

this thread is worthless here. So much misinformation in the thread.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Majesty

Originally posted by: Special K
Building muscle requires eating more calories than you burn. Losing fat requires burning more calories than you consume. These two requirements are kind of at odds with each other, unfortunately.

Actually, you need protein to build muscles. Hence the very existence of the whey protein.

True, but at the end of the day you have to be eating above your maintenance level of calories to gain any weight.

No. Sorry. Your body normally uses protien to build. It normally uses carbs and then fat (in that order) for energy. However, in a pinch, assuming your body has no fat or carbs left to metabolize for energy, it CAN convert to using protien for energy. Excess calories, of any kind, get converted to fat. If your body has excess fat, it will resort to tapping into that fat as an energy source before it taps into its supply of protien. This leaves your body free to use the protien as new building blocks for new muscle cells.

Completely wrong. Your body uses carbs then protein then fat for energy. At certain times you cna burn a higher ratio of fat then to muscle (carbs strill dominate), but that whole fat burning zone thing is a big myth.

It depends ***A LOT*** on what type of activity you're engaged in, your hormone levels: (Insulin, cortisol, testosterone), etcetera. There is no absolute on this one

No, the body always burns carbs then muscle then fat. You find me someone otherwise and we can make a millions of dollars by having his genome decoded and find what gene causes it and maybe we can even win the noble prize. oh wait, that would mean we would have to find someone who evolved past todays humans. Good Luck, I'll pay you well.

What in the hell? Maybe we are not understanding each other. Are you saying that the body will, always, tap first exclusively into glycogen stores only until those are depleted, and then will exclusively turn to muscle tissue for its energy needs until .. what? All the person's muscle is gone? LOL and then it turns to fat stores? wtf??? Please clarify

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

If your body has excess fat, it will resort to tapping into that fat as an energy source before it taps into its supply of protien. This leaves your body free to use the protien as new building blocks for new muscle cells.

I don't think that you know what you're talking about.

Your body will not just keep using up fat as energy without wasting muscle too. It's just not going to happen.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: ahurtt
But fat can provide the energy your body needs to carry out exercise and do work leaving any protien you consume free to be used to synthesize new muscles.

Again, please stop.

If that was the case, you could simply work out and eat protein all day and lose weight incredibly fast. Your body would use the fat for its energy, and any protein you ate would be turned into muscle.

It simply doesn't work that way. If you cut your calories too much, your body will not just use all its fat for energy. Since muscle consumes energy even while you're resting and makes your body burn excess calories, your body will shed muscle in an effort to match your caloric intake. Your metabolism will slow down.

Originally posted by: ahurtt

I agree. Genetics play a big part. But for the typical person, the body will metabolize carbs first (because it's easiest to break down) for energy. Next it will turn to fat because a gram of fat contains a little more than 2x the energy that a gram of protien does. (1 gram fat = about 9 calories, whereas 1 gram protien = about 4 calories. And as we know, calories = energy). Finally, if nothing else is available, your body can burn protien for energy.

STOP!!!!

This is just ridiculous. If that was the case, you could simply stop eating and your body would burn off all its fat before it started eating into your muscle. That would be awesome, a 400 lb person with 200 lbs of muscle could just stop eating, then all the fat would burn away leaving a chiseled 200 lb beefcake.

Never going to happen. If he cut his caloric intake too much, he'd end up looking much like a smaller version of what he looks like now. He'd lose most of his muscle well before the fat left.

Remember, the body is trying to survive- excess muscle is a liability. It will reduce the amount of muscle in order to accomodate the new calorie restricted diet.

If you want to lose fat, you need to gradually reduce your caloric intake while still taking in enough protein. It's a very fine line.

The people who claim that they lost fat and gained muscle are just seeing beginner gains. That's more misleading than anything.

 

[thescreensavers]

so

 

[thescreensavers]

?
the forums are screwed up

 

[classy]

I have read through some of the responses and it is clear most have no clue in the world of what they are talking about. In short the answer is yes, you can without a doubt gain muscle and lose fat. And it does not depend on what a person's build is either. While it is true an overweight person can generally do this, even a skinny person can as well, but not to the same degree. There are many factors that influence this, mainly diet and then excercise, as well as type of excercise as well. And let me address one person, the one who bought up Ronnie Coleman and professional bodybuilders, that person is clueless, lol. Real quick without going into great detail, most of the size loss by bodybuilders when preparing for a contest is not fat loss, its water weight, plain and simple. The mistake many here are making is they attribute fat loss with weight loss and that is not at all true. You can lose weight you can see on a scale and hardly even change your bodyfat percentage, just like you change your bodyfat percentage, but yet not see much weight loss at all. In closing the answer is yes, but varies on many factors.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Frackal

What in the hell? Maybe we are not understanding each other. Are you saying that the body will, always, tap first exclusively into glycogen stores only until those are depleted, and then will exclusively turn to muscle tissue for its energy needs until .. what? All the person's muscle is gone? LOL and then it turns to fat stores? wtf??? Please clarify

It's not necessarily until they are depleted. It depends on activity (also alcohol will tend to be burned first and it's very inefficient for fuel).

But in general in starvation mode (when all other easily available sources of glucose are gone), your body will start breaking down it's lean muscle mass and preserve fat more. Obviously you will get to a point where your fat is gone...then your body will sort of begin to eat itself as there is nothing left to preserve the CNS.

This is why nutrition and actually eating more, but smarter causes more fat loss.

If your body learns it doesn't need to preserve fat it tends to let it go easily.

A very basic macro usage is in the first 15-20 mins of activity you are burning MOSTLY glycogen (I say mostly because your body is burning a bit of everything always)....then as your aerobic activity becomes extended your body begins to use more of it's fat stores.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: classy
I have read through some of the responses and it is clear most have no clue in the world of what they are talking about. In short the answer is yes, you can without a doubt gain muscle and lose fat. And it does not depend on what a person's build is either. While it is true an overweight person can generally do this, even a skinny person can as well, but not to the same degree. There are many factors that influence this, mainly diet and then excercise, as well as type of excercise as well. And let me address one person, the one who bought up Ronnie Coleman and professional bodybuilders, that person is clueless, lol. Real quick without going into great detail, most of the size loss by bodybuilders when preparing for a contest is not fat loss, its water weight, plain and simple. The mistake many here are making is they attribute fat loss with weight loss and that is not at all true. You can lose weight you can see on a scale and hardly even change your bodyfat percentage, just like you change your bodyfat percentage, but yet not see much weight loss at all. In closing the answer is yes, but varies on many factors.

You have to be talking amateur's or lighter weight lifters if you think it's water-weight they are mostly losing. Day or week of the contest yeah, then they are trying to shed water.

Most heavyweights go up 50lbs+ during their off season...that's not water, it's just easier eating and living. For someone 200lbs+ staying at less than 10% bodyfat is pretty hard. When you are a natural 130-140lbs wet, it's a lot easier to stay there.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: classy
I have read through some of the responses and it is clear most have no clue in the world of what they are talking about. In short the answer is yes, you can without a doubt gain muscle and lose fat. And it does not depend on what a person's build is either. While it is true an overweight person can generally do this, even a skinny person can as well, but not to the same degree. There are many factors that influence this, mainly diet and then excercise, as well as type of excercise as well. And let me address one person, the one who bought up Ronnie Coleman and professional bodybuilders, that person is clueless, lol. Real quick without going into great detail, most of the size loss by bodybuilders when preparing for a contest is not fat loss, its water weight, plain and simple. The mistake many here are making is they attribute fat loss with weight loss and that is not at all true. You can lose weight you can see on a scale and hardly even change your bodyfat percentage, just like you change your bodyfat percentage, but yet not see much weight loss at all. In closing the answer is yes, but varies on many factors.

Oh the irony, I have a degree in nutrition and I am a professional powerlifter, and what you said is complete bs. You have no idea, Ronnie Colman is up around 315-340 before he starts cutting down to about 285. And losing water weight doesn't get you down to his bf% dumbass.And yes I did explain in detail and give the reasons why this is not possible. Once again stfu.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: classy
I have read through some of the responses and it is clear most have no clue in the world of what they are talking about. In short the answer is yes, you can without a doubt gain muscle and lose fat. And it does not depend on what a person's build is either. While it is true an overweight person can generally do this, even a skinny person can as well, but not to the same degree. There are many factors that influence this, mainly diet and then excercise, as well as type of excercise as well. And let me address one person, the one who bought up Ronnie Coleman and professional bodybuilders, that person is clueless, lol. Real quick without going into great detail, most of the size loss by bodybuilders when preparing for a contest is not fat loss, its water weight, plain and simple. The mistake many here are making is they attribute fat loss with weight loss and that is not at all true. You can lose weight you can see on a scale and hardly even change your bodyfat percentage, just like you change your bodyfat percentage, but yet not see much weight loss at all. In closing the answer is yes, but varies on many factors.

You have to be talking amateur's or lighter weight lifters if you think it's water-weight they are mostly losing. Day or week of the contest yeah, then they are trying to shed water.

Most heavyweights go up 50lbs+ during their off season...that's not water, it's just easier eating and living. For someone 200lbs+ staying at less than 10% bodyfat is pretty hard. When you are a natural 130-140lbs wet, it's a lot easier to stay there.

Wrong. Maybe 20 years ago. But most top bodybuilders stay with 20-30 lbs or so of their contest weight. Only the most massive guys like Cutler or Coleman will drop 40 plus pounds. And neither of them this year drop 50+ lbs. Many will drop 15 or so pounds in the last week or two because of water loss, not fat loss. Want proof? Jay knocked off RC this year. The week after at the Austrian Gran Prix he beat him again. Here is blurb from the article.

JAY WINS REMATCH #1

Written by: Greg Merritt

He was still holding water from yesterday's 14-hour flight, but Jay Cutler was clearly better defined than Ronnie Coleman in Friday's Austrian Grand Prix, and for the second time in six days (the first being the Mr. Olympia), Iron Jay relegated eight-time Mr. O Coleman to the runnerup spot.

Here is the full article, here. And these guys represent what 1-2% of the entire population. I would bet 60% of the weightloss is water. That is how you see those strirations . Man Benaziza died from diuretics. So in closing you need to watch your mouth and learn some facts.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra

Originally posted by: classy
I have read through some of the responses and it is clear most have no clue in the world of what they are talking about. In short the answer is yes, you can without a doubt gain muscle and lose fat. And it does not depend on what a person's build is either. While it is true an overweight person can generally do this, even a skinny person can as well, but not to the same degree. There are many factors that influence this, mainly diet and then excercise, as well as type of excercise as well. And let me address one person, the one who bought up Ronnie Coleman and professional bodybuilders, that person is clueless, lol. Real quick without going into great detail, most of the size loss by bodybuilders when preparing for a contest is not fat loss, its water weight, plain and simple. The mistake many here are making is they attribute fat loss with weight loss and that is not at all true. You can lose weight you can see on a scale and hardly even change your bodyfat percentage, just like you change your bodyfat percentage, but yet not see much weight loss at all. In closing the answer is yes, but varies on many factors.

Oh the irony, I have a degree in nutrition and I am a professional powerlifter, and what you said is complete bs. You have no idea, Ronnie Colman is up around 315-340 before he starts cutting down to about 285. And losing water weight doesn't get you down to his bf% dumbass.And yes I did explain in detail and give the reasons why this is not possible. Once again stfu.

Let me also address something else in your post. Because it is clear you got your degree from some online mickey mouse college. For the last and final time you like many other goofballs associate fatloss with weightloss. While fatloss does lead to weightloss, it is not always the case. And like I said many factors come into play from diet, excercise, type of excercise, and genetics. I don't care what lousy piece of toilet paper is hanging on your wall, it is a fact proven countless times, you can gain muscle while losing fat. You need to go back to school or better yet go to a real school.

 

[91TTZ]

Don't even bother bringing up people like Ronnie Coleman or Jay Cutler. They are on so many steroids, estrogen blockers, diuretics, etc, that that don't come remotely close to representing what a normal person can do.

 

[Babbles]

I think THIS GUY proved that you can build muscle and lose fat at once, albeit it is not easy. I know there is another lengthy thread floating somewhere over at Bodybuilding.com that has a bunch of information in regards to this very subject matter.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra

Originally posted by: classy
I have read through some of the responses and it is clear most have no clue in the world of what they are talking about. In short the answer is yes, you can without a doubt gain muscle and lose fat. And it does not depend on what a person's build is either. While it is true an overweight person can generally do this, even a skinny person can as well, but not to the same degree. There are many factors that influence this, mainly diet and then excercise, as well as type of excercise as well. And let me address one person, the one who bought up Ronnie Coleman and professional bodybuilders, that person is clueless, lol. Real quick without going into great detail, most of the size loss by bodybuilders when preparing for a contest is not fat loss, its water weight, plain and simple. The mistake many here are making is they attribute fat loss with weight loss and that is not at all true. You can lose weight you can see on a scale and hardly even change your bodyfat percentage, just like you change your bodyfat percentage, but yet not see much weight loss at all. In closing the answer is yes, but varies on many factors.

Oh the irony, I have a degree in nutrition and I am a professional powerlifter, and what you said is complete bs. You have no idea, Ronnie Colman is up around 315-340 before he starts cutting down to about 285. And losing water weight doesn't get you down to his bf% dumbass.And yes I did explain in detail and give the reasons why this is not possible. Once again stfu.

Let me also address something else in your post. Because it is clear you got your degree from some online mickey mouse college. For the last and final time you like many other goofballs associate fatloss with weightloss. While fatloss does lead to weightloss, it is not always the case. And like I said many factors come into play from diet, excercise, type of excercise, and genetics. I don't care what lousy piece of toilet paper is hanging on your wall, it is a fact proven countless times, you can gain muscle while losing fat. You need to go back to school or better yet go to a real school.

ROFL, LOL you go believe that.