Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
anyone who answered no simply doesnt know what he/she is talking about.
explain this then...i went from a 48 to a 38 in 2 months and at the same time doubled my curl, bench went from 215 to 295, and i lost net 30 pounds and probably 40 pounds of fat while gaining muscle...all of this is in the middle of me stuffing my face constantly. i was eating healthy, sure, but i was still eating at least 3000 calories a day.
i dont believe it for even a second that you cant do both at the same time. it doesnt even make sense that you wouldnt be able to. your budy is a machine and needs fuel to work - food and fat are fuel. calories in vs calories out is a fine way to look at it, but simply saying that fails to take into account all of the parameters. most people need 1500-1700 a day just to stay alive at a normal health level. if you give that person the calories in vs calories out, then fine, they are not building muscle and probably arent losing any fat. now what about the person who eats 3500-4000 (me) and continues to lose weight while becoming stronger. i was not a weight lifting noob either as i weight lifted extensively in high school, and that wasnt even 4 years ago.
research to prove this is not necessary as it just takes a little bit of observation and work to see the results for yourself. it makes zero sense for your body to only be able to do 1 at a time. all exercise by definition is toning/strengthening muscle and you are continually burning fat.
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ok it seems here that some people need to remember there is a difference between muscle tone and muscle mass.
Additionally, it is most definitely possible to lose fat and gain muscle; however, as said, it may not be the most effecient way.
Im trying to gain muscle tone right now, gain a little mass as well. I am not to concerned about burning fat, but I know that I will most definitely burn it. I run everday 6 days a week (Granted I ran track in High School and hope to in College). I lift every other day (Fairly high rep), which gives the muscles time to rebuild (Though was unsure until yesterday about abs). Then afterwards I have a peanut butter sandwhich for the protein.
But most importantly, something that I am suprised no one has mentioned is DRINK LOTS OF WATER. You would how much of a difference this makes!
-Kevin
Originally posted by: Special K
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ok it seems here that some people need to remember there is a difference between muscle tone and muscle mass.
Additionally, it is most definitely possible to lose fat and gain muscle; however, as said, it may not be the most effecient way.
Im trying to gain muscle tone right now, gain a little mass as well. I am not to concerned about burning fat, but I know that I will most definitely burn it. I run everday 6 days a week (Granted I ran track in High School and hope to in College). I lift every other day (Fairly high rep), which gives the muscles time to rebuild (Though was unsure until yesterday about abs). Then afterwards I have a peanut butter sandwhich for the protein.
But most importantly, something that I am suprised no one has mentioned is DRINK LOTS OF WATER. You would how much of a difference this makes!
-Kevin
A PB sandwich is a poor choice for protein. You are getting maybe 10g from that. You'd be better off with some whey protein mixed in water.
Originally posted by: Majesty
Actually, you need protein to build muscles. Hence the very existence of the whey protein.Originally posted by: Special K
Building muscle requires eating more calories than you burn. Losing fat requires burning more calories than you consume. These two requirements are kind of at odds with each other, unfortunately.
By reducing my calories intake and taking a very serious training (HIT or SuperSlow), in 1 year, I lost 50 pounds and gained muscles.
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Originally posted by: Special K
Originally posted by: Majesty
Actually, you need protein to build muscles. Hence the very existence of the whey protein.Originally posted by: Special K
Building muscle requires eating more calories than you burn. Losing fat requires burning more calories than you consume. These two requirements are kind of at odds with each other, unfortunately.
True, but at the end of the day you have to be eating above your maintenance level of calories to gain any weight.
No. Sorry. Your body normally uses protien to build. It normally uses carbs and then fat (in that order) for energy. However, in a pinch, assuming your body has no fat or carbs left to metabolize for energy, it CAN convert to using protien for energy. Excess calories, of any kind, get converted to fat. If your body has excess fat, it will resort to tapping into that fat as an energy source before it taps into its supply of protien. This leaves your body free to use the protien as new building blocks for new muscle cells.
Originally posted by: sash1
Originally posted by: Special K
Originally posted by: sash1
Running builds leg muscle and burns fat?
You still need a surplus of calories to build ANY muscle.
so am I not correct in saying running builds leg muscle and burns fat?
Originally posted by: mugs
I don't have any scientific facts either, but before my wedding I lost 20 pounds and doubled my max bench press at the same time.
I was consuming 1400 calories a day at the time.
Originally posted by: SludgeFactory
Originally posted by: mugs
I don't have any scientific facts either, but before my wedding I lost 20 pounds and doubled my max bench press at the same time.
I was consuming 1400 calories a day at the time.
Initial strength gains on a workout program aren't a reliable way of gauging how much muscle mass you may have added. Early gains are mostly due to improved neural recruitment of motor units.
This, plus shedding some fat and actually seeing musculature underneath it for the first time in a long time, is what leads a lot of people to conclude that you can effectively lose fat mass and gain significant lean mass simultaneously.
Originally posted by: SVT Cobra
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Originally posted by: Special K
Originally posted by: Majesty
Actually, you need protein to build muscles. Hence the very existence of the whey protein.Originally posted by: Special K
Building muscle requires eating more calories than you burn. Losing fat requires burning more calories than you consume. These two requirements are kind of at odds with each other, unfortunately.
True, but at the end of the day you have to be eating above your maintenance level of calories to gain any weight.
No. Sorry. Your body normally uses protien to build. It normally uses carbs and then fat (in that order) for energy. However, in a pinch, assuming your body has no fat or carbs left to metabolize for energy, it CAN convert to using protien for energy. Excess calories, of any kind, get converted to fat. If your body has excess fat, it will resort to tapping into that fat as an energy source before it taps into its supply of protien. This leaves your body free to use the protien as new building blocks for new muscle cells.
Completely wrong. Your body uses carbs then protein then fat for energy. At certain times you cna burn a higher ratio of fat then to muscle (carbs strill dominate), but that whole fat burning zone thing is a big myth.
Originally posted by: Frackal
Originally posted by: SVT Cobra
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Originally posted by: Special K
Originally posted by: Majesty
Actually, you need protein to build muscles. Hence the very existence of the whey protein.Originally posted by: Special K
Building muscle requires eating more calories than you burn. Losing fat requires burning more calories than you consume. These two requirements are kind of at odds with each other, unfortunately.
True, but at the end of the day you have to be eating above your maintenance level of calories to gain any weight.
No. Sorry. Your body normally uses protien to build. It normally uses carbs and then fat (in that order) for energy. However, in a pinch, assuming your body has no fat or carbs left to metabolize for energy, it CAN convert to using protien for energy. Excess calories, of any kind, get converted to fat. If your body has excess fat, it will resort to tapping into that fat as an energy source before it taps into its supply of protien. This leaves your body free to use the protien as new building blocks for new muscle cells.
Completely wrong. Your body uses carbs then protein then fat for energy. At certain times you cna burn a higher ratio of fat then to muscle (carbs strill dominate), but that whole fat burning zone thing is a big myth.
It depends ***A LOT*** on what type of activity you're engaged in, your hormone levels: (Insulin, cortisol, testosterone), etcetera. There is no absolute on this one
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Well yeah, but the sandwhich is also my lunch. In addition to that I am a poor college kid...
-Kevin
Originally posted by: SVT Cobra
Originally posted by: Frackal
Originally posted by: SVT Cobra
Originally posted by: ahurtt
Originally posted by: Special K
Originally posted by: Majesty
Actually, you need protein to build muscles. Hence the very existence of the whey protein.Originally posted by: Special K
Building muscle requires eating more calories than you burn. Losing fat requires burning more calories than you consume. These two requirements are kind of at odds with each other, unfortunately.
True, but at the end of the day you have to be eating above your maintenance level of calories to gain any weight.
No. Sorry. Your body normally uses protien to build. It normally uses carbs and then fat (in that order) for energy. However, in a pinch, assuming your body has no fat or carbs left to metabolize for energy, it CAN convert to using protien for energy. Excess calories, of any kind, get converted to fat. If your body has excess fat, it will resort to tapping into that fat as an energy source before it taps into its supply of protien. This leaves your body free to use the protien as new building blocks for new muscle cells.
Completely wrong. Your body uses carbs then protein then fat for energy. At certain times you cna burn a higher ratio of fat then to muscle (carbs strill dominate), but that whole fat burning zone thing is a big myth.
It depends ***A LOT*** on what type of activity you're engaged in, your hormone levels: (Insulin, cortisol, testosterone), etcetera. There is no absolute on this one
No, the body always burns carbs then muscle then fat. You find me someone otherwise and we can make a millions of dollars by having his genome decoded and find what gene causes it and maybe we can even win the noble prize. oh wait, that would mean we would have to find someone who evolved past todays humans. Good Luck, I'll pay you well.
No, the body always burns carbs then muscle then fat. You find me someone otherwise and we can make a millions of dollars by having his genome decoded and find what gene causes it and maybe we can even win the noble prize. oh wait, that would mean we would have to find someone who evolved past todays humans. Good Luck, I'll pay you well.
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Just like KarenMarie, I don't have scientific evidence, but I worked out 3 days a week for a year and never lost more than 5 pounds from the beginning of the year to the end of it. Some peoples bodies may naturally replace fat with muscle. My legs and arms were never so developed, but my weight was the same almost. Just that stinking gut that won't go away. :|
Originally posted by: alkemyst
Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Just like KarenMarie, I don't have scientific evidence, but I worked out 3 days a week for a year and never lost more than 5 pounds from the beginning of the year to the end of it. Some peoples bodies may naturally replace fat with muscle. My legs and arms were never so developed, but my weight was the same almost. Just that stinking gut that won't go away. :|
Gut is the last to leave for men...fat comes on love handles, front abs then kidney area...then the rest of the body for most men....it leaves in reverse order.
I started at 220.8 and 34% body fat in April...I dropped as low as 24% and 197lbs, in Sept my best weight was still 26% body fat and 206 pounds. I am 5'10" and was wearing size 34" jeans loosely. My mid section contributed that fat percent.
However, most said my Tanita scale is probably too conservative and to them 'looked' more 18-20% BF. I get massive though and look my best at about 15%. At that weight I will have defined abs, extremely ripped legs, arms and shoulders. My back and chest will be defined and swollen looking which IMHO looks better than ripped there. I would rather my legs and arms carried a little more fat on them at the same time but it doesn't happen. I fit into size 32 jeans at that weight loosely...dipping below 10% I go into size 29 jeans and start looking too veiny for anyone but a bodybuilder to like.
Thing that sucks is I blew out my right elbow when I dropped a 2.5 gallon water and tried to catch it. I have taken a month off and my body is suffering for it. Back up to about 209 and 27-30% body fat....size 34 is tight. One more week of rest then it's either cortizone injections or painkillers and ice and probably have to live with it. I will be seeing a sports doctor at that point.
Originally posted by: alkemyst
It's sort of a yes or no.
Yes you can get stronger and lose fat. Especially if new to training.
However, your max lifts will go down quite a bit on a cutting diet. Say I can do 100lb dumbbells for 6-8 reps while bulking...about a week after I cut my food intake down, I may only be able to get 2-4 reps out of that or even have to drop weight to 90-95lbs.
When most in the scene are talking muscle though, they are talking mass. So YMMV on what you are looking for.
In general, most people are better off cutting first, then adding muscle. Most will not do what it takes to put on serious mass anyway. If your bodyfat is already in the low teens as a male and you are not defined enough for your personal wants then no about of cutting will help.
You best bet will come from a 3 day a week program consisting of nothing more than the basics: bench press, squats, deadlifts....throwing power cleans in there is a good idea, but really optional at the starting point. If you want to throw a set of curls or something in feel free but know you are going to gain mass everywhere on your body sticking to the basics in the beginning. After 6-12 months of that and serious eating and sleeping, you should now be able to tell where you need work and where you are may be over-developing.
This is assuming you want to just get big and strong looking....various activities may preclude this from being your goal...but early power lifting can help even light weight gymnasts later on.
Originally posted by: dxkj
No, the body always burns carbs then muscle then fat. You find me someone otherwise and we can make a millions of dollars by having his genome decoded and find what gene causes it and maybe we can even win the noble prize. oh wait, that would mean we would have to find someone who evolved past todays humans. Good Luck, I'll pay you well.
You said your burn carbs, then muscle, then fat, but at what point are we talking about? Because I know it is possible to lose fat without being completely out of muscleJust a little confused on that order, and at what times do you burn your fat off instead of muscle?