is it possible to lose fat and gain muscle at once?

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: ahurtt
I don't see why it isn't possible. If you are already fat somewhat, execising your muscles will burn that fat. All you need to eat to build more muscles is high protien. That will provide the building blocks for building new muscle cells (which are more dense and weigh more than fat cells). The existing fat you have in your body can be used as energy for those muscles to burn. In fact, the more muscle you have, the more fat your body burns. . .that's assuming you don't substitute by eating a lot of carbs. I see no reason why with a diet high in protien and low in fat and carbs, you cannot both loose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

The idea that the fat you burn will be used to synthesize new muscle is a good one, but unfortunately unless you are a complete beginner, have exceptional genetics, and/or are on drugs, doesn't work too well in practice.

brikis98 is right on in that you are better off focusing on 1 goal at a time.

I am not saying the fat you burn will be synthesized into new muscle. I am saying fat is excess energy. Muscle can only be built from protien (amino acids more specifically). There is no way to convert fat to protien. But fat can provide the energy your body needs to carry out exercise and do work leaving any protien you consume free to be used to synthesize new muscles.

Right, but the extent to which that happens is entirely determined by genetics. Instead of using fat for energy, your body may instead prefer to break down your muscles to reduce the amount of energy you require. This is why it is difficult to cut down to a very low bodyfat without losing any muscle, as I am currently finding out. Taking it slowly helps, but you can't beat your genetics.

I agree. Genetics play a big part. But for the typical person, the body will metabolize carbs first (because it's easiest to break down) for energy. Next it will turn to fat because a gram of fat contains a little more than 2x the energy that a gram of protien does. (1 gram fat = about 9 calories, whereas 1 gram protien = about 4 calories. And as we know, calories = energy). Finally, if nothing else is available, your body can burn protien for energy.

 

[ahurtt]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: brikis98

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: ahurtt
I don't see why it isn't possible. If you are already fat somewhat, execising your muscles will burn that fat. All you need to eat to build more muscles is high protien. That will provide the building blocks for building new muscle cells (which are more dense and weigh more than fat cells). The existing fat you have in your body can be used as energy for those muscles to burn. In fact, the more muscle you have, the more fat your body burns. . .that's assuming you don't substitute by eating a lot of carbs. I see no reason why with a diet high in protien and low in fat and carbs, you cannot both loose fat and gain muscle at the same time.

The idea that the fat you burn will be used to synthesize new muscle is a good one, but unfortunately unless you are a complete beginner, have exceptional genetics, and/or are on drugs, doesn't work too well in practice.

brikis98 is right on in that you are better off focusing on 1 goal at a time.

although you are correct that to get the best results, you should focus on 1 at a time, you can still get results even if you don't fall into the categories you listed above (beginner, genetics, drugs). your progress will be slow, but i can tell you from personal experience, it'll happen.

if you lift 3 days a week and do cardio 3 days a week with healthy diet (favoring more protein and less carbs, fats, etc) i absolutely gaurantee you will lose fat and gain muscle. however, the amount of muscle you will gain will be less than if you just focused on lifting (and the appropriate diet for it). likewise, the amount of fat you'll lose won't be as much as if you focused on cardio (and the appropriate diet for it).

still, it's worthwhile, especially if you are a beginner. going for both is an excellent way to get your body into good shape and set it up for a more focused approach to each of those goals later on.

Even still, the more muscle you have, the more difficult it becomes to add more, especially if you also want to achieve a very low bodyfat.

I have been training for 3 years now and it just keeps getting more difficult to make gains.

This is because the more muscle you have, the more energy your body needs even in a resting state to sustain those energy hungry muscles. If you have a large amount of muscle in your body, it becomes a fat burning machine. Eventually you just run up against a wall where due to your genetics, like you said earlier, your body has reached its limit with how much energy it can process in a given day to sustain all those muscles while at the same time building new muscles.

 

[Rogueverve]

Yes, but keep in mind it only becomes a major issue when you hit the 12-15%bf range. Before that its pretty easy, just eat slightly below maintenance (2-300 calories) and your body will do the rest naturally.

The key is in when and what you eat. As everyone above who has posted you DO burn muscle at times but only when there is no fat or carbs around to burn instead. The first thing you need after a hard workout is carbs and FAST. the 30-45 minutes after you workout are very important because your body is searching for rebuilding materials asap (the majority of it being carbs to replace glucose stores, and some protein). The best and quickest way to get it is with some sort of liquid shake (liquid absorbs better). A small amount of whey, milk, and a banana or strawberries (carbs) works really well in this regard. Some people have come up with systems or w/e called carb cycling and various other things but the importance is that you can almost eliminate muscle loss with proper nutrition (specifically post workout nutrition).

With respect to the people who have said that its best to do each one switching between them. Thats not 100% right, it will get you faster results but not necessarily better ones. Besides, if fat loss is the goal the more muscle you have the more you are going to burn off each day so it just begins to cycle.

Post Workout Nutrition: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/berardi4.htm
Carb-Cycling: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;js...309E0BFF34BDF8A2495A3A.hydra?id=811783

 

[Fritzo]

Yes, you can. But it slows down both processes.

 

[kalrith]

I did this while I was in high school. I was a beginner in weight lifting at the time, but I had been doing some exercise. I went to the doctor's and weighed in at 197 (I'm 6'1"). That was the most I had ever weighed, and I certainly didn't want to go over 200. I started biking on a trainer for 45 minutes 4 days per week and lifting weight 3 days per week. I kept a food journal and still remember that I was eating 3300 calories and about 150-170 grams of protein each day. In 6-7 months I weighed 174, had lost a lot of fat, and had gained a lot of muscle. I also almost doubled the weight that I was able to lift.

 

[JS80]

weight lift then doing cardio is the most effective way to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time

 

[zoiks]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Don't have scientific facts, but I have lost 8.75 inches and 2.5% Body Fat in the last 6 weeks, yet only lost 2 pounds on the scale.


edit: that is 2.5% not 1.5%

Dayyum. Those is a lot of inches.

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Don't have scientific facts, but I have lost 8.75 inches and 2.5% Body Fat in the last 6 weeks, yet only lost 2 pounds on the scale.


edit: that is 2.5% not 1.5%

Dayyum. Those is a lot of inches.

I go to the gym four days a week.

Mon/thurs lower body weights and serious cardio
tues/fri upper body weights and serious cardio.

I eat twice as much food, but with less calories and am very careful what i eat.

my diet used to consist of 64oz of coffee and a pack of marlboro until approx 7PM. Then i would eat whatever was quick and convenient. usually frozen pizza, chinese food, pasta, or fast food. and i ate cookies or potato chips and diet soda while watching teevee in bed. i worked from home and spent most of the day at the desk, or on the couch.

over 6 years, I REALLY packed it on.

so, i changed my diet, joined a gym and lost 16.5 scale pounds, three jean sizes and 8.75 inches (mostly in my thighs, hips and ass.) and i can see a really nice defination of muscle starting to develop.

I still have a long way to go... don't get me wrong, but I have been working my ass off for the past 6 weeks, and intend to continue this way until i am healthy, fit and ...hopefully... no longer smoke.

My biggest challenge is the diet. I am not really interested in food, and find it difficult to eat early in the day. But I am working on it... especially pre and post work out.

 

[zoiks]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
Don't have scientific facts, but I have lost 8.75 inches and 2.5% Body Fat in the last 6 weeks, yet only lost 2 pounds on the scale.


edit: that is 2.5% not 1.5%

Dayyum. Those is a lot of inches.

I go to the gym four days a week.

Mon/thurs lower body weights and serious cardio
tues/fri upper body weights and serious cardio.

I eat twice as much food, but with less calories and am very careful what i eat.

my diet used to consist of 64oz of coffee and a pack of marlboro until approx 7PM. Then i would eat whatever was quick and convenient. usually frozen pizza, chinese food, pasta, or fast food. and i ate cookies or potato chips and diet soda while watching teevee in bed. i worked from home and spent most of the day at the desk, or on the couch.

over 6 years, I REALLY packed it on.

so, i changed my diet, joined a gym and lost 16.5 scale pounds, three jean sizes and 8.75 inches (mostly in my thighs, hips and ass.) and i can see a really nice defination of muscle starting to develop.

I still have a long way to go... don't get me wrong, but I have been working my ass off for the past 6 weeks, and intend to continue this way until i am healthy, fit and ...hopefully... no longer smoke.

My biggest challenge is the diet. I am not really interested in food, and find it difficult to eat early in the day. But I am working on it... especially pre and post work out.

Thats very commendable. I hope you can keep at it.

 

[Al Neri]

posting on atot is proven to help you lose fat and gain muscle!

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: dpopiz
people seem to be split about this...
anyone have some scientific facts?

Yes it absolutely is, especially for a newbie weight trainer. Go to www.bodybuilding.com to find a decent forum with enough good advice to get you started

 

[Fern]

is it possible to lose fat and gain muscle at once?

Yes. I don't need any scientific evidence.

I had a long lay-off from lifting. When I went back at it, my waistline shrunk and my chest/arms etc got bigger.

No need to get all scientific about it: when you lift/excersize you burn calories/fat. You lose fat. When you lift/excersize you gain muscle. It really is that simple. Trying to maximize these effects, and get past plateu's is what gets a bit more complicated.

Fern

 

[EmperorIQ]

Originally posted by: Special K
Not unless you are a complete beginner, have incredible genetics, and/or are on drugs.

Building muscle requires eating more calories than you burn. Losing fat requires burning more calories than you consume. These two requirements are kind of at odds with each other, unfortunately.

 

[EmperorIQ]

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Majesty

Originally posted by: Special K
Building muscle requires eating more calories than you burn. Losing fat requires burning more calories than you consume. These two requirements are kind of at odds with each other, unfortunately.

Actually, you need protein to build muscles. Hence the very existence of the whey protein.

True, but at the end of the day you have to be eating above your maintenance level of calories to gain any weight.

I was under the impression that muscle weight would replace muscle weight on a careful diet.

For me, I cut my calories to 1,500 a day. I eat carefully balanced meals with an occasion Whey protein smoothie.

I have lost fat and built muscle.

I don't know your stats (height, weight, bodyfat, etc.), but I am speaking from the perspective of a male who is trying to attain 200+ lbs. of muscle at <10% bodyfat, which is incredibly difficult to do. Once you get beyond a level of progress, the body is not going to simply burn fat to build muscle anymore, unless you have exceptional genetics or are on drugs.

Although you are right that a careful diet is important to maximize results.

I know of a personal trainer who is 5'10" and he once was at 210lbs w/ less than 10% body fat. He said it was very hard work but he just didn't like what he had to do to keep at that size. It was just eating, lifting and sleeping.

 

[JEDI]

"is it possible to lose fat and gain muscle at once?"

no

 

[funboy6942]

Originally posted by: Special K
Not unless you are a complete beginner, have incredible genetics, and/or are on drugs.

Building muscle requires eating more calories than you burn. Losing fat requires burning more calories than you consume. These two requirements are kind of at odds with each other, unfortunately.

So say if your fat, do nothing but body building activities, dont eat much so your body will start to use the stored up fat, there by you put on muscle mass at the same time, and in same places as the fat that is being absorbed to make up the missing calories.

Thats what I did for a year and I looked damn good. Fat-loose weight without musle gain-end up with flabby skin hanging off your body in places the muscle would of filled out the streched out skin from being fat

Of course I was no where as obese as I am today, just little junky, and in no way, even if I could, put on enough muscle in the fat areas. Today I would end up with a 300lb muscualr man with 100 of it being streched out flabby skin.

Its really the only option for semi-fat people. If your fat and going for the skinny only, with no muscle mass, it can only be done if you have absolutly NO strech marks anywhere on your body. Anywhere there is a strech mark the skin will not shrink there, you end up with flabby skin, and IMO you may as well just stay fat, if what your going for is looking good. Flabby streched out skin is as/more un-sexy as being just fat. Atleat if you gain the muscle you still got strech marks but its a 6 pack strech marked area not flopping around in the wind or jiggling all over when you run, worse then your fat did, ew.

One big downside though is if your the fat with the man titties, pray you loose the fat in the titties first or you build up the muscle mass under them and make you look like you got even bigger man titties.

You go from looking like this guy (how I looked as a teen before I did what I did, and ended up looking just like him, but better looking)

To losing the weight and ending up with something like this.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: JEDI
"is it possible to lose fat and gain muscle at once?"

no

LOL, yes it is. That's silly. I have been bodybuilding since I was 17 (6 years) and know the sport intimately. It is ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE, in fact, it's almost inevitable for the newbie who has a decent training/eating/rest regimen

 

[Whisper]

I'd say it's quite possible, yes. Although the gains typically tend to be slower from what I've seen, to an extent. Your current level of fitness will also play into the scenario quite significantly.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: JEDI
"is it possible to lose fat and gain muscle at once?"

no

LOL, yes it is. That's silly. I have been bodybuilding since I was 17 (6 years) and know the sport intimately. It is ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE, in fact, it's almost inevitable for the newbie who has a decent training/eating/rest regimen

esplain

what regiment would u recommend for a normal sized newbie?

 

[yhelothar]

You probably can, and will lose fat and gain muscle at the same time if you're fat to begin with. But if you're normal sized, and you're trying to bulk up while losing fat, it's not going to happen.

 

[zerocool84]

well im not a scientist or anything but while i was doing some construction for over the summer a couple of years ago, i lost 20lbs but then gain 10 back but obviously it was muscle. i dont know how any of this works but i didnt lose much weight but looked better because of the muscle. just run, and eat small/healthy meals throughout the day. you should be fine

 

[MrDudeMan]

anyone who answered no simply doesnt know what he/she is talking about.

explain this then...i went from a 48 to a 38 in 2 months and at the same time doubled my curl, bench went from 215 to 295, and i lost net 30 pounds and probably 40 pounds of fat while gaining muscle...all of this is in the middle of me stuffing my face constantly. i was eating healthy, sure, but i was still eating at least 3000 calories a day.

i dont believe it for even a second that you cant do both at the same time. it doesnt even make sense that you wouldnt be able to. your budy is a machine and needs fuel to work - food and fat are fuel. calories in vs calories out is a fine way to look at it, but simply saying that fails to take into account all of the parameters. most people need 1500-1700 a day just to stay alive at a normal health level. if you give that person the calories in vs calories out, then fine, they are not building muscle and probably arent losing any fat. now what about the person who eats 3500-4000 (me) and continues to lose weight while becoming stronger. i was not a weight lifting noob either as i weight lifted extensively in high school, and that wasnt even 4 years ago.

research to prove this is not necessary as it just takes a little bit of observation and work to see the results for yourself. it makes zero sense for your body to only be able to do 1 at a time. all exercise by definition is toning/strengthening muscle and you are continually burning fat.

 

[KoolDrew]

Originally posted by: EmperorIQ

Originally posted by: Special K
Not unless you are a complete beginner, have incredible genetics, and/or are on drugs.

Building muscle requires eating more calories than you burn. Losing fat requires burning more calories than you consume. These two requirements are kind of at odds with each other, unfortunately.

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: ahurtt

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: Majesty

Originally posted by: Special K
Building muscle requires eating more calories than you burn. Losing fat requires burning more calories than you consume. These two requirements are kind of at odds with each other, unfortunately.

Actually, you need protein to build muscles. Hence the very existence of the whey protein.

True, but at the end of the day you have to be eating above your maintenance level of calories to gain any weight.

No. Sorry. Your body normally uses protien to build. It normally uses carbs and then fat (in that order) for energy. However, in a pinch, assuming your body has no fat or carbs left to metabolize for energy, it CAN convert to using protien for energy. Excess calories, of any kind, get converted to fat. If your body has excess fat, it will resort to tapping into that fat as an energy source before it taps into its supply of protien. This leaves your body free to use the protien as new building blocks for new muscle cells.

Actually, as soon as you hit the fasting state and burn through your glycogen, you'll start burning protein. Blood glucose levels will be maintained for the most part, and you can't get glucose in any significant amount from fat.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: Frackal

Originally posted by: JEDI
"is it possible to lose fat and gain muscle at once?"

no

LOL, yes it is. That's silly. I have been bodybuilding since I was 17 (6 years) and know the sport intimately. It is ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE, in fact, it's almost inevitable for the newbie who has a decent training/eating/rest regimen

esplain

what regiment would u recommend for a normal sized newbie?

Honestly, the best recommendation is to go to www.bodybuilding.com which has a decent enough forum that will allow one to research. Its actually very much like a person coming to this forum and asking "what type of PC should I build for xxx amount of cash? and how do I do it? "

I could give you a routine but there is more you need to know, its best to research a bit, develop your own routine around your own particulary lifestyle, and then post it for critique and such.


But yes, it is very common for people who were previously very sedentary and are now just beginning a weight-training regimen to lose fat and gain muscle over the same xxxx period of time.