Is it me or is this Unattended child in motor vehicle law too vague

[dabuddha]

where do you live with carjackers in every lot?

you're talking to a guy that leaves his truck unlocked everywhere

oh, and fun fact - it starts without a key because the steering column was put together incorrectly after a rebuild

you can't live your life worrying about everything, leave your damn kid in a locked and running car and be back in 5 like a normal person

No. Like I said, I'm not comfortable with doing so and I take my kids with me when I go inside. If others are comfortable with it, more power to them. Unfortunately those are the ones that usually end up on the news when some poor child gets taken or hurt.

 

[dabuddha]

if the kid is in the backseat of the car, they still could have choked with the parents in the car. stupid reason is stupid.

If the parent was in the car, they would have been able to intervene and save the child. This time the kid was lucky that Kaido's friend was there otherwise the retard mom would have come back to a dead child in the backseat of the car.

 

[KidNiki1]

If the parent was in the car, they would have been able to intervene and save the child. This time the kid was lucky that Kaido's friend was there otherwise the retard mom would have come back to a dead child in the backseat of the car.

and if the parent was driving the car but was watching the road instead of the kid? the kid still could have choked. if the parent was in the car, the kid still could have choked. the kid could be in a room and the parent in the next room and the kid could choke on a piece of candy. the kid could be in the backyard and the parent inside and the kid could have choked.

my point was that being afraid someone might abduct your kid, or steal you kid and your car, or your kid injures themselves in the running car or your kid is left all day in an unattended car is one thing.

his example is only related because something that COULD HAPPEN ANYWHERE, happened this time in a car. bad example.

 

[jaedaliu]

I leave my kid in the car for maybe 3 minutes while I run in to pay for gas or something. But not while I just "shop".

Then again I live in the type of town where you can leave your car running until it was out of gas and it would still be sitting there.

Some moron just north of me is going to prison because she forgot her child in the car while she went to work for 9 hours. The high was like 16f that day.

pfft, I have a friend in Norway. The preschool/daycare leave the kids outside napping until it's -20C (-4F) before they bring them in.

 

[Kaido]

If the parent was in the car, they would have been able to intervene and save the child. This time the kid was lucky that Kaido's friend was there otherwise the retard mom would have come back to a dead child in the backseat of the car.

It's hard because kids are sneaky like that. Murphy's law. My next-door-neighbor's toddler drown a few years ago; they were kinda lax about watching him (on the phone all the time, but not totally ignorant or anything) & he snuck through the door and drown in their pool. Pretty horrible. All happened in the space of a few minutes. I'm probably overly-paranoid about my own kid because of that. My babycam is a huge stress reducer

It's a difficult question overall. I mean, it's like babysitting - at what age should they stay home? How old should the babysitter be? It really depends on the kid & the maturity of the babysitter. I mean, I'm not going to unstrap the baby from the carseat just because I'm filling up gas, you know? But if I'm headed into a store, obviously I'll take him with me.

 

[dabuddha]

and if the parent was driving the car but was watching the road instead of the kid? the kid still could have choked. if the parent was in the car, the kid still could have choked. the kid could be in a room and the parent in the next room and the kid could choke on a piece of candy. the kid could be in the backyard and the parent inside and the kid could have choked.

my point was that being afraid someone might abduct your kid, or steal you kid and your car, or your kid injures themselves in the running car or your kid is left all day in an unattended car is one thing.

his example is only related because something that COULD HAPPEN ANYWHERE, happened this time in a car. bad example.

So lets deal with the actual events instead of what ifs.

Fact: The mom left her kid for who knows how long inside a locked car. Fact: The kid started choking on a piece of candy. Fact: The kid was only saved because of the friend.
Fact: If the mom had taken the kid inside with her like a responsible parent would, the kid might or might not have choked. If they did choke, the parent could intervene immediately.

 

[dabuddha]

It's hard because kids are sneaky like that. Murphy's law. My next-door-neighbor's toddler drown a few years ago; they were kinda lax about watching him (on the phone all the time, but not totally ignorant or anything) & he snuck through the door and drown in their pool. Pretty horrible. All happened in the space of a few minutes. I'm probably overly-paranoid about my own kid because of that. My babycam is a huge stress reducer

It's a difficult question overall. I mean, it's like babysitting - at what age should they stay home? How old should the babysitter be? It really depends on the kid & the maturity of the babysitter. I mean, I'm not going to unstrap the baby from the carseat just because I'm filling up gas, you know? But if I'm headed into a store, obviously I'll take him with me.

Agreed. If you're right next to the car, I don't have a problem leaving a kid strapped in. BTW agreed on the camera I've got a foscam that I use as a "baby monitor" to keep an eye on my youngest when we put him to bed

 

[Kaido]

and if the parent was driving the car but was watching the road instead of the kid? the kid still could have choked. if the parent was in the car, the kid still could have choked. the kid could be in a room and the parent in the next room and the kid could choke on a piece of candy. the kid could be in the backyard and the parent inside and the kid could have choked.

my point was that being afraid someone might abduct your kid, or steal you kid and your car, or your kid injures themselves in the running car or your kid is left all day in an unattended car is one thing.

his example is only related because something that COULD HAPPEN ANYWHERE, happened this time in a car. bad example.

Well I think there's a difference between being within viewing distance & being able to respond to the situation versus being stuck in a line of people inside a building & not seeing what is happening. That child would have been dead if my buddy hadn't saved him. That's ridiculous. And he got yelled at by the mom for messing with the kid & her car. So yeah, stupid is stupid, but there's also situations that are inherently more dangerous than others. I mean, my kid chokes from time to time, but I'm around to whack it out of him - kids are going to put themselves in dangerous situations, which is why it's part of a parent's job to keep an eye on them.

And that's why the law is vague. Number one, how do you even enforce something like that? You'd have to have officers monitoring it all the time and then have to make sure you have all of the facts straight to do anything about it. Number two, it doesn't apply to every situation. If you're filling up gas & can see the kid, no big deal. If you strap the kid in the car & then realize you left the bottle in the house, it's usually okay to run in & get it. But it's obviously not okay to go shopping while leaving a baby strapped into the car. Part of the problem is that you can't rely on 100% of people to make good decisions for their families, so you run into people who do crazy stuff. And people naturally forget sometimes, which makes it dangerous.

 

[Mixolydian]

The question is - at what age is it OK?

 

[Kaido]

The question is - at what age is it OK?

It depends on the kid. I was fine by myself at like 7 years old. But my brother was off microwaving marshmallows wrapped in tinfoil at the same age

 

[Kaido]

Agreed. If you're right next to the car, I don't have a problem leaving a kid strapped in. BTW agreed on the camera I've got a foscam that I use as a "baby monitor" to keep an eye on my youngest when we put him to bed

Yeah, I'm really glad we have that kind of technology available. I've seen a lot of stuff coming out for babies that does monitoring built into onsies, so you can make sure they're still breathing & stuff without having to use an ultrasonic pad (our kid was colicky, so we had to monitor him all the time in case he threw up while he was on his back).

My friend's family lost a child a number of years ago before backup cameras were invented. His mom was in the house & thought his dad had the baby & vice-versa; when the dad backed out of the driveway in their SUV, the toddler ran out of the house behind the car & that was it. It was just a simple miscommunication that could have happened to anybody, and he was looking behind him as he pulled out, but the rear window height wasn't enough to see the child. Really really unfortunate situation, but it happens all the time, either due to negligence or just bad luck.

 

[Gunslinger08]

I think that everyone under the age of 18 should be accompanied by an adult at all times, in public and private, to ensure that they don't hurt themselves.

 

[radtechtips]

I think that everyone under the age of 18 should be accompanied by an adult at all times, in public and private, to ensure that they don't hurt themselves.

Oh that's bullshit

 

[Linflas]

Oh that's sarcasm

FIFY

 

[Possessed Freak]

Really, illegal in all circumstances... walk up ATM, time to get the stroller out.

 

[chimaxi83]

Show me the statistics that show that anything has changed other than the over-saturated coverage of what used to be local stories on a national level by multiple 24x7 cable news operations inducing mass hysteria in the population.

Nah. My opinion in this thread isn't based on any statistics, not that I'd give a fuck either way. My opinion is based on both growing up and being a parent in Chicago. Statistics don't mean shit to me in some cases. Far too many shitheads walking around here means I couldn't care less what numbers say.

 

[BoomerD]

I never worried about leaving my kids in the car for short periods. I just stuck them in the trunk and went about my business.

They were always happy to see me return.

 

[phucheneh]

Fact: ATOT fails at English. Holy shit a lot of you don't understand what that law is saying.

Don't leave an unattended child in a car that is too hot or too cold. Don't leave an unattended child in a car with the keys in it.

That's it.

'Carjacking' is a moot point because it specifies 'not running.' Yes, door locks can be defeated quickly; no, the anti-theft/immobilizer cannot.

And it doesn't say shit about the car being locked. By the law, you can leave your kid in an unlocked, non-running car on a temperate day. Which makes that law rather lenient, at it's actually depending on parents to take some common sense responsibility. Clearly the real issue is that it's not illegal for some people to reproduce.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

I stayed in the car all the time as a kid when my parents were going into a store. With the keys, so I could listen to the radio. I didn't die, get kidnapped, or take the car for a joyride.

That's how I was growing up too. I hated shopping.

 

[OCGuy]

Welcome to our nanny state. The people who write the laws are the most ignorant bunch of twits one could imagine. Although sometimes that benefits me, since their ridiculous and inaccurate wording allows work-arounds or lawsuits to stop them.

 

[88keys]

Laws are written vaguely for a reason. But it's not so it can be at that discretion of the people. It's so it will be at the discretion of law enforcement to decide when and where the law applies.

 

[DrPizza]

Welcome to our nanny state. The people who write the laws are the most ignorant bunch of twits one could imagine. Although sometimes that benefits me, since their ridiculous and inaccurate wording allows work-arounds or lawsuits to stop them.

Nanny state? How about some of the nanny parents. I was walking from my house to my friend's houses, alone, by kindergarten. By 2nd grade, my curfew was "when it starts getting dark - you better be home by the time the street lights turn on." Ditto for my own kids. And, amazingly, the boogie man didn't steal them.

 

[88keys]

We don't live in that world anymore.
Times change. People must adapt.

 

[Linflas]

We don't live in that world anymore.
Times change. People must adapt.

Again show the hard data that demonstrates that the world today is more dangerous for a kid than it was 50 years ago. In addition to what DrPizza said we used to camp out in the backyard in the summer with nary a parent in sight and the boogie man didn't come into the backyard either. Our limits in the summer months were basically however far we could get between breakfast and lunch and lunch and supper. We waded in creeks, explored the woods and built tree forts all without adult supervision.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

So lets deal with the actual events instead of what ifs.

Fact: The mom left her kid for who knows how long inside a locked car. Fact: The kid started choking on a piece of candy. Fact: The kid was only saved because of the friend.
Fact: If the mom had taken the kid inside with her like a responsible parent would, the kid might or might not have choked. If they did choke, the parent could intervene immediately.

Based on your rationale no parent should ever leave their child's side. Ever. Because if they do, something bad might happen. Little johnny might choke, he might get kidnapped, he might go into respiratory distress, he might poop himself and start eating it, etc. The possibilities are endless and we should never expose children to any sort of risk.

Newsflash - people just one generation ago left their kids in the car unattended while they did minor errands. And guess what? Most of those kids are now well adjusted adults. The fact that something might happen is not justification for a law prohibiting something that is in fact quite safe, particularly when a parent exercises reasonable judgment.

FWIW I am a parent of two small children. I have left both of them in a locked car while I do minor errands (e.g., taking money out of an ATM), particularly when the car is in plain view from wherever I am. If the car will be out of sight for any length of time, the kids go with me.

Also - I find it extremely annoying that your kind of people feel like it is somehow your job to tell everyone else what they must do, when in fact most people would exercise reasonable judgment to avoid exposing their kids to unreasonable risks of harm. Mind your own business. Your just like my idiot neighbor who stood at the end of my driveway to "make sure my son was ok" when he (my 5 year old son) was playing up by my garage some 200 feet from the road where I could easily watch him through the window (and I was watching him). And no, the neighbor is not a pedophile (See- its easy to predict where your worry wort mind will go). But I'm sure you would say that it should be criminal for kids to play in the front yard without a parent present, right?

Forgive me for being callus, but it is not the government's job to parent its citizens or the children of its citizens.