Is it just me or does it seem like the Middle Class is Dying?

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Originally posted by: waggy
[
only time it matters is going out for dinner. gotta change where we go depending who i go out with heh

I'll go anywhere you're buying waggy

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer

Originally posted by: waggy
[
only time it matters is going out for dinner. gotta change where we go depending who i go out with heh

I'll go anywhere you're buying waggy

heh :beer:

 

[zephyrprime]

It strikes me as odd that supposed capitalist are lecturing someone for being jealous of someone else's wealth. In capitalism, shouldn't jealousy be considered a positive force that causes people to strive to make more money?

 

[Pocatello]

The middle class isn't dieing, it's changing. A lot of blue collar jobs are disappearing. A blue collar worker for the former big 3 automobile companies better start looking for another career soon. I see a lot of opportunities in the health care sector, until the CEOs start to outsourcing doctors and nurses as well (they are doing that already). A high school diploma isn't good enough. On the other hand, Wal-Mart is always hiring. I have family members who aren't good at school, so they start their own business, and have become very successful.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Special K
For every successful entrepreneur are probably thousands who put everything they had into their companies and didn't see a fraction of the success that people like Bill Gates did

or look at someone like Richard Stallman, brilliant computer geek & hacker who practically founded the free software movement. He thinks it is a human rights violation to charge for software. Imagine if Richard Stallman had been a selfish pr1ck like Bill Gates, instead of creating the GPL and the GNU tools, he might have spent his life trying to overcharge suckers for emacs or other software or spent his life like Bill Gates stealing ideas and software from other people and remarketing it at outrageous prices. I believe that 50 years from now, the influence of Bill Gates will be forgotten, but the influence of Richard Stallman will live on through open source and free software which is rapidly becoming the accepted standard in business and is already the accepted standard in the sciences. Assessing people's worth to society by their pay check is just an incredibly stupid thing.

You are fscked in the head. Completely. The rich are evil according to you because they have more money than middle class people, yet you applaud somebody would be happy to eliminate the income of millions of middle class people worldwide?

Human rights violation to charge for software. What a tool. :roll:

 

[EKKC]

all i have to say is, if you're getting a year end bonus more than the lotto jackpot is worth. that's just wrong.
companies should get a grip on how to hire executives and rework all compensation packages for them.

 

[TehMac]

It seems to me actually that the middle class who work hard are getting richer, and the poorer chaps are filling in that gap with their work.
So I dunno, how old are you/profession?

 

[Trevelyan]

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Reports by the census bureau indicate that the gap between the super rich and the well-off is increasing every year.

This doesn't bother me though, and it shouldn't bother you either, since you and I are well off. I can afford an okay apartment with an okay TV and a nice computer. I can afford to eat well. I can afford to do what I want to do for work. That's enough for me. I can't buy a yacht, so what?

word cotton

 

[uberman]

There is no more middle class. We are simply a country of haves and have-nots, the rich and the poor.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: uberman
There is no more middle class. We are simply a country of haves and have-nots, the rich and the poor.

Which one are you?

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

She we tell hime about the ex- Pfizer exc that got canned due to incompetance and was also handed a $180 million severence package?

And yes, the middle class has been dyeing for about 6 years now. ... go figure.

 

[MemoryInAGarden]

Don't like where you're at because of the cost of living? Then move. Can't find a job in a field in which you have expertise in a cheaper location? Then try getting a job anywhere you can if you find your current situation so intolerable. It does you no good to complain and wish things were better elsewhere if you sit around, mope, and do nothing.

 

[uberman]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: uberman
There is no more middle class. We are simply a country of haves and have-nots, the rich and the poor.

Which one are you?

Definitely the have-nots or the poor.

 

[AnthroAndStargate]

It is funny because the middle class only cares about gay marriage and abortion.

It is their fault that they are being screwed - they do not focus on important issues like the fact that we are in a war yet have not raised taxes - the fact that social security is getting ready to collapse - and the fact that our country is basically going to ******.

I will be blaming the current Middle Class for causing me to pay freaking SUPER HIGH taxes thanks to Iraq for the rest of my life - while benefiting from no gov't services in the process since they cant afford to run.

BOO HOO.

 

[HomeAppraiser]

Dying since Reagan took office!

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: uberman

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: uberman
There is no more middle class. We are simply a country of haves and have-nots, the rich and the poor.

Which one are you?

Definitely the have-nots or the poor.

Really?

How old are you? Do you have a car? A TV? You obviously have a computer and an internet connection.

The absurdity in this is people who live very comfortably and enjoy quite a few luxuries think they are "poor" because they cannot afford high end goods.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: EKKC
all i have to say is, if you're getting a year end bonus more than the lotto jackpot is worth. that's just wrong.
companies should get a grip on how to hire executives and rework all compensation packages for them.

Why is it wrong?

Why do you care how a company compensates it's employees?

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: uberman
There is no more middle class. We are simply a country of haves and have-nots, the rich and the poor.

NK has nuclear weapons. Iran does not have nuclear weapons.

/thread

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: Darkstar757

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: MagnusTheBrewer
The '50's era was indeed the "cookie cutter cheaply built tract home.," which is why I comapared it to "the super cheap, 2 x 4 constructed, drive by type of house"

The tract homes were subsidized by Uncle Sam and our house was purchased in 1960 for $10,000 which was my Dad's salary at the time. Also, in those years, only the head (read man) of the household worked outside the home typically so there really was no combined income.

I was trying to eliminate the quibling over what constitutes 'middle class' by making comparisons to living situations that hopefully many can identify with. I define 'working poor' as someone who does not own 'real' property and is within 2 paychecks of being on the street. Again, in my state, the 'working poor' are in the vast majority.

In general, quality of life has dropped significantly across the country within ONE generation. I believe the 'middle' class has gone the way of single wage earner families, i.e. none to speak of.

I disagree. Quality of life has greatly improved.

BTW, your father's salary was $64,000 in today's dollars. He made TWICE the average income in 1960, which was around $5000

Oh, and my parents paid $32,000 for a 2400 SF suburban house in 1962.

BTW, I will agree that 2 income families have caused housing prices to shoot up. But that's only because they were willing to pay more. The market will charge only what the market will bear. 2 incomes means the market will bear more.

So, in a way, you can blame women's lib for some of that.

But MANY things are far cheaper now as a % of income. Food is FAR cheaper (DRASTICALLY CHEAPER), appliances are cheaper, and so are cars. Not to mention all the gadgets the average person has now that they never had then.

For all the energy you are putting into this I take it your super rich.

:roll:

How absurd. I point out simple facts and refute some misinformation and you assume I am "super rich" (something you obviously find wrong for some silly reason).

Tell me, if I argue for gay rights, am I gay?
If I oppose the war on drugs, am I a user?

Darkstar757, if you actually take the time to read my posts objectively rather than jump to knee-jerk conclusions, you will find one common theme: Freedom. Both social and economic freedom.

I don't care who's bull is being gored, I will argue to save it.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: Amused
Wealth is distributed by EARNING it. If you want it, go earn it. No one is going to give it to you because you're jealous of them.

So I take it you aren't earning 50 million dollars because you don't work hard enough right?

Hard work is not enough. Never has been, never will be. You need ambition and risk. You will never be wealthy, no matter how hard you work, if you simply stay in the same job for the security of a paycheck.

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: Amused
Wealth is distributed by EARNING it. If you want it, go earn it. No one is going to give it to you because you're jealous of them.

So I take it you aren't earning 50 million dollars because you don't work hard enough right?

Hard work is not enough. Never has been, never will be. You need ambition and risk. You will never be wealthy, no matter how hard you work, if you simply stay in the same job for the security of a paycheck.

I don't think risk has much of a factor. Its about who you know that will get you the farthest.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: Amused
Wealth is distributed by EARNING it. If you want it, go earn it. No one is going to give it to you because you're jealous of them.

So I take it you aren't earning 50 million dollars because you don't work hard enough right?

Hard work is not enough. Never has been, never will be. You need ambition and risk. You will never be wealthy, no matter how hard you work, if you simply stay in the same job for the security of a paycheck.

I don't think risk has much of a factor. Its about who you know that will get you the farthest.

Hardly. This is one of the myths that holds people back. If you don't know who you need to know to get what you need done, get to know them.

If getting wealthy were easy, eveyone would do it. If were only about hard work, every ditch digger in the nation would be a billionaire.

Risk plays a huge part in it. Simply the initial risk in not having that paycheck security keeps a lot of people from starting their own company.

 

[essasin]

Be happy for what you have.

 

[d3n]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: aidanjm
no, it isn't communism, it is a progressive taxation policy (which American already has, anyway). it makes sense to tax the wealthiest citizens at the highest rates. the majority of people accept this. George Bush has simply tweaked the balance, causing huge amounts of money to shift from the pockets of the middle class to the pockets of the mega-wealthy.

Of FFS, not this crap again. Go google or something because it simply isn't true. The middle class pays next to nothing in taxes. The poor pay NO TAXES WHATSOEVER

It's the same old crap that been spewn over and over again by people that won't better their life or themselves. "But the rich don't pay taxes!!!! They're sticking it to the little man!!!"

Do you know that I will pay over 50K in taxes this year? And I ain't rich.

QFT... This is really troubling to me. To go a bit further I think the wealth distribution mentality totally kills initiative , innovation and any kind of personal responsibility. In my opinion Government is around to do a couple of things and hopefully do them well. National defense, protection of common resources and to keep a check on big business. hand holding me with entitlements and wealth redistribution is not one of them. To me this country is the best place in the world because I think it has the best system in place to keep the Government the heck out of my life. I wish people would stop viewing it as a tool to enforce their opinions on others. I'm for a fair tax system. Let the illegals pitch in too.

 

[vi edit]

Can somebody tell me what exactly defines middle class and why they think it is dead/dying?

I'd like to see a nailed down definition of what is considered middle class. And how exactly you determine that it is dying?