Is Healthcare a human right?

[Amused]

If healthcare isn't a right, why are death panels wrong?

Wow. Seriously?

The whole uproar over mythical death panels was because once socialized, people have no choice in providers or insurers, thus the decision to pay and treat or not was not theirs.

 

[sandorski]

Wow. Seriously?

The whole uproar over mythical death panels was because once socialized, people have no choice in providers or insurers, thus the decision to pay and treat or not was not theirs.

lolworthy

 

[PsiStar]

Not a human right, but it is a societal responsibility.

 

[bfdd]

If healthcare isn't a right, why are death panels wrong?

you're asking the wrong person. "death panels" are always going to be around. they're here today and they'll be here tomorrow. if you think your life is anything more than a dollar sign in the grand scheme of things you've been living in a fantasy world.

 

[Nebor]

Get over yourself, you're lucky to have private insurance at all.

Lucky? He works and PAYS for it. That's not luck.

 

[Moonbeam]

Self hate makes for big egos. People who hate themselves put everything down and create a pool of shit. They then stand back and admire themselves for how far they have elevated themselves above the shit. You take their shit away, their self satisfied sense of superiority, and they feel like nothing. This is why they have a need to keep others in shit. They exist only in contrast and comparison. But he who is valuable only because of shit, is shit. He who loves himself loves everyone. There is no shit for him.

 

[nobodyknows]

Society has a responsibility to provide all of it's members with basic services, such as health care, police, fire, and defense. If not then why bother banding together and having a society?

 

[rudder]

Personally I feel it is.

let me ask you one question... Why haven't you gone to medical school and become a doctor?

Are we to expect that people who spend over a decade in school and graduate with an average of $150,000+ debt should suddenly work for free?

Healthcare is not a right and we should be thankful that there are people dedicated enough to spend a large portion of their life learning a medical trade.

 

[Bowfinger]

let me ask you one question... Why haven't you gone to medical school and become a doctor?

Are we to expect that people who spend over a decade in school and graduate with an average of $150,000+ debt should suddenly work for free?

Healthcare is not a right and we should be thankful that there are people dedicated enough to spend a large portion of their life learning a medical trade.

#include <favorite facepalm image here>

One more time for the reading impaired: nobody is suggesting forcing health care professionals to work for free. There is no slavery here. It's a big lie, spread by morons and hacks who are incapable of forming honest arguments. The honest debate is about who should pay and how we pay, NOT IF we pay.

 

[Bowfinger]

It's not the American people that complicate the issue, it's the powerful forces that profit so handsomely from our current system. And unfortunately these same folks that profit billions have undue influence on our political system through healthcare lobbyists that pump more cash into the pockets of legislators than the NRA, and they also spend billons spreading the fear of "evil socialist policies" amongst less informed voters.

This, exactly.

 

[soulcougher73]

I dont think it is a human right, but i think its a good idea for the number 1 super power to have. It shows how powerful you really are that you can take care of your whole population. Hopefully efficiently.

 

[xj0hnx]

Society has a responsibility to provide all of it's members with basic services, such as health care, police, fire, and defense. If not then why bother banding together and having a society?

We have provided health care, you can either pay your doctor directly, or buy insurance to pay for big things. The problem with society providing everything for citizens is that citizen lose a degree of self sufficiency, and become dependent, or feel entitled, as evidenced in this thread. People feel they are entitled for someone to provide them a service, they are not. Where do you draw the line at what society should "provide" for it's citizens? Health care, homes? Cars? Food? I mean a home, transportation, and food are pretty basic right? What about clothes? everyone needs clothes, maybe a phone, internet, a TV to stay up to date and be entertained. This is why we draw a line between things that benefit society as a whole, and the individual. There are obviously some gray areas that can be argued either way, but I am going to err towards the side of the individual being responsible for the individual.

 

[silverpig]

We have provided health care, you can either pay your doctor directly, or buy insurance to pay for big things. The problem with society providing everything for citizens is that citizen lose a degree of self sufficiency, and become dependent, or feel entitled, as evidenced in this thread. People feel they are entitled for someone to provide them a service, they are not. Where do you draw the line at what society should "provide" for it's citizens? Health care, homes? Cars? Food? I mean a home, transportation, and food are pretty basic right? What about clothes? everyone needs clothes, maybe a phone, internet, a TV to stay up to date and be entertained. This is why we draw a line between things that benefit society as a whole, and the individual. There are obviously some gray areas that can be argued either way, but I am going to err towards the side of the individual being responsible for the individual.

Is not a healthy population for the benefit of society as a whole? Same goes with education. You can't argue on the other hand that me having a flatscreen TV is good for society as a whole.

It becomes a right to have healthcare when you pay for it with taxes. I'm happy paying the taxes I do because it means I know I have healthcare when I need it and when my family needs it. You pay for it on the side, I pay for it in taxes. I don't have to worry about pre-existing conditions, filling out forms, making sure my bill is paid in full every month, or losing coverage.

 

[xj0hnx]

Is not a healthy population for the benefit of society as a whole? Same goes with education. You can't argue on the other hand that me having a flatscreen TV is good for society as a whole.

I'm not arguing that anyone should get a TV, or that it would be good for society if they did ...just to be clear.

It becomes a right to have healthcare when you pay for it with taxes. I'm happy paying the taxes I do because it means I know I have healthcare when I need it and when my family needs it. You pay for it on the side, I pay for it in taxes. I don't have to worry about pre-existing conditions, filling out forms, making sure my bill is paid in full every month, or losing coverage.

It doesn't become a right at any time because health care is a service, and it's a service I don't want the government to be in charge of. Bloated, inefficient government bureaucracy is not going to solve the health care problem in the United States.

 

[sandorski]

I'm not arguing that anyone should get a TV, or that it would be good for society if they did ...just to be clear.



It doesn't become a right at any time because health care is a service, and it's a service I don't want the government to be in charge of. Bloated, inefficient government bureaucracy is not going to solve the health care problem in the United States.

This is a Fail argument. Mainly because it ignores the existence of the large Private bloated bureaucracies already in place. The Private bureaucracies are so large the Government bureaucracy that would replace it couldn't be as large.

 

[RedChief]

This is a Fail argument. Mainly because it ignores the existence of the large Private bloated bureaucracies already in place. The Private bureaucracies are so large the Government bureaucracy that would replace it couldn't be as large.

This is a fail argument. Mainly because it ignores existence of the marketplace and it's ability to allow corporations to fail. What corps (in this case ins companies) fail? Those who cannot compete due to higher costs then their competitors due to bloated bureaucracies. Private bureaucracies get addressed and streamlined. Government bureaucracies just continue to grow.

 

[soundforbjt]

According to the voting so far it's 129 people who thinks everyone should have good healthcare and 52 who think it's every man for himself.

 

[Bowfinger]

This is a fail argument. Mainly because it ignores existence of the marketplace and it's ability to allow corporations to fail. What corps (in this case ins companies) fail? Those who cannot compete due to higher costs then their competitors due to bloated bureaucracies. Private bureaucracies get addressed and streamlined. Government bureaucracies just continue to grow.

That's so sweet. Unbelievably naive ... but sweet.

 

[xj0hnx]

According to the voting so far it's 129 people who thinks everyone should have good healthcare and 52 who think it's every man for himself.

Everyone should have access to good health care, that doesn't mean that the government should be in charge of it, or that it is a right.

 

[Linflas]

According to the voting so far it's 129 people who thinks everyone should have good healthcare and 52 who think it's every man for himself.

Actually it is a very biased poorly posed poll but it still indicates a majority on this board do not view health care as a right 54.35 % vs 45.65% and a large majority do not support "single payer" aka government provided health care 61.96 vs 38.04 as of this post.

 

[xj0hnx]

This is a Fail argument. Mainly because it ignores the existence of the large Private bloated bureaucracies already in place. The Private bureaucracies are so large the Government bureaucracy that would replace it couldn't be as large.

This is a Fail argument. Mainly because it ignores the existence of millions of people that do not currently have coverage. The government bureaucracy would in fact have to be BIGGER because right now there's how many millions without insurance.

 

[sandorski]

This is a Fail argument. Mainly because it ignores the existence of millions of people that do not currently have coverage. The government bureaucracy would in fact have to be BIGGER because right now there's how many millions without insurance.

Incorrect. The Government Bureaucracy wouldn't be pouring over every single Procedure to Approve/Reject treatment. It would be mostly allocating Funds, Paying submitted Bills, Investigating suspicious Billing, and likely analyzing statistics looking for Savings and/or Treatment Efficiencies/Inefficiencies.

 

[xj0hnx]

Incorrect.

Yes, you are incorrect.

 

[Bowfinger]

This is a Fail argument. Mainly because it ignores the existence of millions of people that do not currently have coverage. The government bureaucracy would in fact have to be BIGGER because right now there's how many millions without insurance.

Not necessarily. There's a lot of redundancy in the current system, with many private carriers duplicating each other, generally at a state by state level. A single, consolidated federal-level administrator could add tremendous efficiency due to standardization and economies of scale (at least in theory).

 

[sandorski]

Yes, you are incorrect.

You are Failing.