is Hamas a terrorist organization?

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

I've been seeing a lot about Hamas in the news. When I look them up, I see that they seem to often launch attacks at Jews from hospitals, schools and apartments. Once the inevitable retaliation comes, Hamas seems to always have camera crews ready to document all of the resulting civilian casualties, which of course makes it all look like some kind of sick attack by the Jews on defenseless people.

I recently saw a news article referring to them as "Hamas terrorists". I found myself wondering - does a typical person view them this way?

Is any group using children, hospital patients and civilians as a "human shield" for their attacks to be considered a terrorist group?

 

[IronWing]

Gaza, one of the ghettos that Israel created for the Palestinians as as part of Israel's apartheid scheme, is one of most densely populated places on earth. The claim of "human shields" is just a convenient way to dismiss the murders of Palestinian civilians by the Israeli state.

 

[ivwshane]

One man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter.

 

[brycejones]

I've been seeing a lot about Hamas in the news. When I look them up, I see that they seem to often launch attacks at Jews from hospitals, schools and apartments. Once the inevitable retaliation comes, Hamas seems to always have camera crews ready to document all of the resulting civilian casualties, which of course makes it all look like some kind of sick attack by the Jews on defenseless people.

I recently saw a news article referring to them as "Hamas terrorists". I found myself wondering - does a typical person view them this way?

Is any group using children, hospital patients and civilians as a "human shield" for their attacks to be considered a terrorist group?

Oh Lordy

 

[Fenixgoon]

One man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter.

This quote that has always stuck with me since the first time I read it however many years ago.
It's not absolute truth, but there's almost always an element of truth to it.

 

[Jaskalas]

Using densely populated areas as launch sites, indiscriminately bombing Israeli civilians. Hamas commits war crimes all the time.

The Hamas "charter" as it were, is for explicit genocide against Israel. To purge Muslim lands.

We are supposed to feel sorry for them because they have limited firepower, because their stated goal of genocide cannot be readily achieved?

 

[IronWing]

Gaza, one of the ghettos that Israel created for the Palestinians as as part of Israel's apartheid scheme, is one of most densely populated places on earth. The claim of "human shields" is just a convenient way to dismiss the murders of Palestinian civilians by the Israeli state.

Using densely populated areas as launch sites, indiscriminately bombing Israeli civilians. Hamas commits war crimes all the time.

The Hamas "charter" as it were, is for explicit genocide against Israel. To purge Muslim lands.

We are supposed to feel sorry for them because they have limited firepower, because their stated goal of genocide cannot be readily achieved?

One man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter.

I think that pretty much covers the question.

 

[brycejones]

Using densely populated areas as launch sites, indiscriminately bombing Israeli civilians. Hamas commits war crimes all the time.

The Hamas "charter" as it were, is for explicit genocide against Israel. To purge Muslim lands.

We are supposed to feel sorry for them because they have limited firepower, because their stated goal of genocide cannot be readily achieved?

Right wing religious assholes of any stripe are detrimental to peace. Those exist on both sides in the conflict at hand.

 

[KMFJD]

It's pretty fucked in the head needing to rationalize the murder of 60+ children , if Hamas did a bad thing, that totally makes indiscriminately bombing children alright?

 

[soulcougher73]

Checks OPs name, reads OPs post.

 

[Stokely]

I'd say you could make a case that both sides of that fucked up area are "terrorists" with tit-for-tat going back generations. And the USA has it's share of blame for it.

 

[Jhhnn]

Using densely populated areas as launch sites, indiscriminately bombing Israeli civilians. Hamas commits war crimes all the time.

The Hamas "charter" as it were, is for explicit genocide against Israel. To purge Muslim lands.

We are supposed to feel sorry for them because they have limited firepower, because their stated goal of genocide cannot be readily achieved?

You need to document the allegation that their charter advocates genocide. Oh, and they hide in tunnels, like Londoners during the Blitz.

 

[nickqt]

Ghettoize a population slowly over time, into smaller and smaller areas. Then kill them 100-1. Do it over half a century.

Slow-motion genocide.

 

[Jaskalas]

You need to document the allegation that their charter advocates genocide.

Next you'll be demanding proof the world is round? Or that we landed on the moon? FFS, we have always known what Hamas is, and what they have done. Now there's a spur of the moment idea that you can get away with sudden denial?

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Nationalism, from the point of view of the Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed. Nothing in nationalism is more significant or deeper than in the case when an enemy should tread Moslem land. Resisting and quelling the enemy become the individual duty of every Moslem...​

​

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement...​

​

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with.​

Peace is only an option for parties who mutually want it. Who see value in it. Not a cast of "Islamic Soldiers" who reject peaceful solutions, who view the entire land as their duty to be retaken by force. Their terrorist attacks and actions have been entirely consistent with that goal.

When given respite from war, all they do is prepare for the next one. They dig in, arm up, and eventually launch first strikes against Israel as they have once again done this year. Instead of building up their land, helping their people, and finding a peaceful solution. All Hamas strives for is death.

And you would just love to re-write it and make them the heroes?

Egypt and Jordan want nothing to do with the Palestinians for a reason. The world needs to come together and bribe them into breaking down their walls to the "prison". To police and disarm the Palestinians once and for all. Then to secure the border with Israel so that no one can violate it. Not Israel, not Palestinians. Peace can only come by someone entering that territory and taking on the responsibility of disarming and stabilizing it.

I want the people of that land to have a place in this world, and a right to live in peace. But that will never be realized until someone steps in and takes down Hamas.

 

[Jhhnn]

Next you'll be demanding proof the world is round? Or that we landed on the moon? FFS, we have always known what Hamas is, and what they have done. Now there's a spur of the moment idea that you can get away with sudden denial?

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Nationalism, from the point of view of the Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed. Nothing in nationalism is more significant or deeper than in the case when an enemy should tread Moslem land. Resisting and quelling the enemy become the individual duty of every Moslem...​

​

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement...​

​

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with.​

Peace is only an option for parties who mutually want it. Who see value in it. Not a cast of "Islamic Soldiers" who reject peaceful solutions, who view the entire land as their duty to be retaken by force. Their terrorist attacks and actions have been entirely consistent with that goal.

When given respite from war, all they do is prepare for the next one. They dig in, arm up, and eventually launch first strikes against Israel as they have once again done this year. Instead of building up their land, helping their people, and finding a peaceful solution. All Hamas strives for is death.

And you would just love to re-write it and make them the heroes?

Egypt and Jordan want nothing to do with the Palestinians for a reason. The world needs to come together and bribe them into breaking down their walls to the "prison". To police and disarm the Palestinians once and for all. Then to secure the border with Israel so that no one can violate it. Not Israel, not Palestinians. Peace can only come by someone entering that territory and taking on the responsibility of disarming and stabilizing it.

I want the people of that land to have a place in this world, and a right to live in peace. But that will never be realized until someone steps in and takes down Hamas.

Advocacy of genocide not found.

 

[pmv]

One man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter.

Terrorists are people who have bombs but no air-force.

 

[ivwshane]

Terrorists are people who have bombs but no air-force.

That’s what people say who have an Air Force.

 

[rommelrommel]

You need to document the allegation that their charter advocates genocide. Oh, and they hide in tunnels, like Londoners during the Blitz.

Hamas in 2017: The document in full

Hamas explains general principles and objectives in 42-article document

www.middleeasteye.net

2. Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras al-Naqurah in the north to Umm al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit. It is the land and the home of the Palestinian people. The expulsion and banishment of the Palestinian people from their land and the establishment of the Zionist entity therein do not annul the right of the Palestinian people to their entire land and do not entrench any rights therein for the usurping Zionist entity.

18. The following are considered null and void: the Balfour Declaration, the British Mandate Document, the UN Palestine Partition Resolution, and whatever resolutions and measures that derive from them or are similar to them. The establishment of “Israel” is entirely illegal and contravenes the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people and goes against their will and the will of the Ummah; it is also in violation of human rights that are guaranteed by international conventions, foremost among them is the right to self-determination.

19. There shall be no recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist entity. Whatever has befallen the land of Palestine in terms of occupation, settlement building, judaisation or changes to its features or falsification of facts is illegitimate. Rights never lapse.

20. Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.

23. Hamas stresses that transgression against the Palestinian people, usurping their land and banishing them from their homeland cannot be called peace. Any settlements reached on this basis will not lead to peace. Resistance and jihad for the liberation of Palestine will remain a legitimate right, a duty and an honour for all the sons and daughters of our people and our Ummah.

24. The liberation of Palestine is the duty of the Palestinian people in particular and the duty of the Arab and Islamic Ummah in general. It is also a humanitarian obligation as necessitated by the dictates of truth and justice. The agencies working for Palestine, whether national, Arab, Islamic or humanitarian, complement each other and are harmonious and not in conflict with each other.

25. Resisting the occupation with all means and methods is a legitimate right guaranteed by divine laws and by international norms and laws. At the heart of these lies armed resistance, which is regarded as the strategic choice for protecting the principles and the rights of the Palestinian people.

26. Hamas rejects any attempt to undermine the resistance and its arms. It also affirms the right of our people to develop the means and mechanisms of resistance. Managing resistance, in terms of escalation or de-escalation, or in terms of diversifying the means and methods, is an integral part of the process of managing the conflict and should not be at the expense of the principle of resistance.

27. A real state of Palestine is a state that has been liberated. There is no alternative to a fully sovereign Palestinian State on the entire national Palestinian soil, with Jerusalem as its capital.

Advocating the use of force until Israel ceases to exist isn't genocidish enough? Sure... we aren't going to kill them all, they just need to go somewhere that isn't here.

It's pretty fucked in the head needing to rationalize the murder of 60+ children , if Hamas did a bad thing, that totally makes indiscriminately bombing children alright?

"Indiscriminately?" If Israel was indiscriminately bombing children I would think we'd have thousands of dead children a day. They are being about as discriminate as bombing and artillery can be.

 

[woolfe9998]

Next you'll be demanding proof the world is round? Or that we landed on the moon? FFS, we have always known what Hamas is, and what they have done. Now there's a spur of the moment idea that you can get away with sudden denial?

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Nationalism, from the point of view of the Islamic Resistance Movement, is part of the religious creed. Nothing in nationalism is more significant or deeper than in the case when an enemy should tread Moslem land. Resisting and quelling the enemy become the individual duty of every Moslem...​

​

Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement...​

​

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with.​

Peace is only an option for parties who mutually want it. Who see value in it. Not a cast of "Islamic Soldiers" who reject peaceful solutions, who view the entire land as their duty to be retaken by force. Their terrorist attacks and actions have been entirely consistent with that goal.

When given respite from war, all they do is prepare for the next one. They dig in, arm up, and eventually launch first strikes against Israel as they have once again done this year. Instead of building up their land, helping their people, and finding a peaceful solution. All Hamas strives for is death.

And you would just love to re-write it and make them the heroes?

Egypt and Jordan want nothing to do with the Palestinians for a reason. The world needs to come together and bribe them into breaking down their walls to the "prison". To police and disarm the Palestinians once and for all. Then to secure the border with Israel so that no one can violate it. Not Israel, not Palestinians. Peace can only come by someone entering that territory and taking on the responsibility of disarming and stabilizing it.

I want the people of that land to have a place in this world, and a right to live in peace. But that will never be realized until someone steps in and takes down Hamas.

There's also this:

“The Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realization of Allah’s promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: ‘The day of judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jews will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say ‘O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.”

And here is some of what they have to say about Jews:

"With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world with the purpose of achieving their interests and reaping the fruit therein. With their money, they took control of the world media. They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about here and there. With their money, they formed secret societies, such as Freemason, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there."

Hamas is a theocratic fascist organization.

It's sad to see liberals make excuses for them.

 

[Meghan54]

There's also this:



And here is some of what they have to say about Jews:



Hamas is a theocratic fascist organization.

It's sad to see liberals make excuses for them.

You do know the Palestinians are kept within ~13 separate and distinct walled compounds within Israel, only able to leave if approved by the local governing body...which is rare...and if ever approved to leave one enclosure to travel to another (like with a wedding/funeral/etc.), they still cannot drive on the highways...illegal for Palestinians to drive on the major thoroughfares within Israel.

There is no "build up their lands" notion for them. They have no rights or land...the constant expansion of Jewish settlements that take over their supposed land should expose that to you.

Not saying I support terrorism, but go educate yourself about Palestinian living conditions within Israel...it may open your eyes a tad. Neither side is without blame, but really........

 

[rommelrommel]

You do know the Palestinians are kept within ~13 separate and distinct walled compounds within Israel, only able to leave if approved by the local governing body...which is rare...and if ever approved to leave one enclosure to travel to another (like with a wedding/funeral/etc.), they still cannot drive on the highways...illegal for Palestinians to drive on the major thoroughfares within Israel.

There is no "build up their lands" notion for them. They have no rights or land...the constant expansion of Jewish settlements that take over their supposed land should expose that to you.

Not saying I support terrorism, but go educate yourself about Palestinian living conditions within Israel...it may open your eyes a tad. Neither side is without blame, but really........

What you're talking about there is the West Bank and not Israel.

 

[woolfe9998]

You do know the Palestinians are kept within ~13 separate and distinct walled compounds within Israel, only able to leave if approved by the local governing body...which is rare...and if ever approved to leave one enclosure to travel to another (like with a wedding/funeral/etc.), they still cannot drive on the highways...illegal for Palestinians to drive on the major thoroughfares within Israel.

There is no "build up their lands" notion for them. They have no rights or land...the constant expansion of Jewish settlements that take over their supposed land should expose that to you.

Not saying I support terrorism, but go educate yourself about Palestinian living conditions within Israel...it may open your eyes a tad. Neither side is without blame, but really........

Yes, as Rommel said, what you are describing is the West Bank. It does not apply to the ~2 million Palestinian Arabs who live in Israel proper. And it did not apply in the West Bank until ~2000, when the suicide bombing campaigns started. Throughout the 80's, the situation on the ground was relatively peaceful because Palestinian protests were non-violent for the most part. When they became violent, restrictions were imposed.

If Israel really is just a viscious racist state as so many of you describe them, that same treatment would apply to all its Arab citizens, and the restrictions would have started in 1967 when Israel first took over.

When you pose this as a response to my citing evidence of rank anti-Semitism in Hamas' own founding document, and its rallying cry to kill Jews, it sounds as if you think all this anti-Semitism and homicidal intentions were somehow Israel's fault, as if this is an inevitable response to oppression. Yet the charter was written long before the restrictions were imposed. Moreover, Palestinian anti-Semitism has deep roots.

The Mufti of Jerusalem was the spiritual leader of the Palestinians in the 20's, 30's and 40's. Preached anti-Semitism from the pulpit. During WWII, he went to Germany, helped the Nazis recruit Bosnian Muslims to the SS, and discussed with Hitler and Himmler their ongoing extermination of the Jews.

It is not a coincidence that an openly anti-Semitic organization was chosen by the people of Gaza to lead it years later. Arab anti-Semitism goes all the way back like an unbroken thread as a motivation in all this. It was pivotal, just as was the anti-Semitism in Europe which drove the Jews to Palestine in the first place.

 

[Chaspowr3]

Well, to me it is a militant organization asserting its rights. They are completely different from the likes of Al-Qaeda and ISIS which have a different agenda altogether.

 

[WelshBloke]

Yes, as Rommel said, what you are describing is the West Bank. It does not apply to the ~2 million Palestinian Arabs who live in Israel proper. And it did not apply in the West Bank until ~2000, when the suicide bombing campaigns started. Throughout the 80's, the situation on the ground was relatively peaceful because Palestinian protests were non-violent for the most part. When they became violent, restrictions were imposed.

If Israel really is just a viscious racist state as so many of you describe them, that same treatment would apply to all its Arab citizens, and the restrictions would have started in 1967 when Israel first took over.

When you pose this as a response to my citing evidence of rank anti-Semitism in Hamas' own founding document, and its rallying cry to kill Jews, it sounds as if you think all this anti-Semitism and homicidal intentions were somehow Israel's fault, as if this is an inevitable response to oppression. Yet the charter was written long before the restrictions were imposed. Moreover, Palestinian anti-Semitism has deep roots.

The Mufti of Jerusalem was the spiritual leader of the Palestinians in the 20's, 30's and 40's. Preached anti-Semitism from the pulpit. During WWII, he went to Germany, helped the Nazis recruit Bosnian Muslims to the SS, and discussed with Hitler and Himmler their ongoing extermination of the Jews.

It is not a coincidence that an openly anti-Semitic organization was chosen by the people of Gaza to lead it years later. Arab anti-Semitism goes all the way back like an unbroken thread as a motivation in all this. It was pivotal, just as was the anti-Semitism in Europe which drove the Jews to Palestine in the first place.

Do you think that there would be more or less support for Hamas if the Palestinians were treated as equal partners in Israeli society?
Do you think there would be more or less violence if those parts of Israel where the Palestinians are crammed into were allowed to become functional areas?

 

[rommelrommel]

That’s not going to happen, it’s too many non-Jews for Israel to integrate, nor do many Palestinians want to become Israeli.

I think Hamas is ”supported“ because the alternative is to be tortured or killed. i think the violence will continue from Hamas until Israel ceases to exist.