is Hamas a terrorist organization?

[WelshBloke]

i think the violence will continue from Hamas until Israel ceases to exist.

I think it's more likely that Israel continues to ethnically cleanse it's territories until the Palestinians have no place in Israels boarders.

 

[KMFJD]

"Indiscriminately?" If Israel was indiscriminately bombing children I would think we'd have thousands of dead children a day. They are being about as discriminate as bombing and artillery can be.

So it's not indiscriminately? it's targeted then? It must be morally exhausting to have to keep defending this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1394857846559232006

 

[sandorski]

Yes, as Rommel said, what you are describing is the West Bank. It does not apply to the ~2 million Palestinian Arabs who live in Israel proper. And it did not apply in the West Bank until ~2000, when the suicide bombing campaigns started. Throughout the 80's, the situation on the ground was relatively peaceful because Palestinian protests were non-violent for the most part. When they became violent, restrictions were imposed.

If Israel really is just a viscious racist state as so many of you describe them, that same treatment would apply to all its Arab citizens, and the restrictions would have started in 1967 when Israel first took over.

When you pose this as a response to my citing evidence of rank anti-Semitism in Hamas' own founding document, and its rallying cry to kill Jews, it sounds as if you think all this anti-Semitism and homicidal intentions were somehow Israel's fault, as if this is an inevitable response to oppression. Yet the charter was written long before the restrictions were imposed. Moreover, Palestinian anti-Semitism has deep roots.

The Mufti of Jerusalem was the spiritual leader of the Palestinians in the 20's, 30's and 40's. Preached anti-Semitism from the pulpit. During WWII, he went to Germany, helped the Nazis recruit Bosnian Muslims to the SS, and discussed with Hitler and Himmler their ongoing extermination of the Jews.

It is not a coincidence that an openly anti-Semitic organization was chosen by the people of Gaza to lead it years later. Arab anti-Semitism goes all the way back like an unbroken thread as a motivation in all this. It was pivotal, just as was the anti-Semitism in Europe which drove the Jews to Palestine in the first place.

I don't care Why they are committing Genocide, I only care That they are doing it.

 

[mikeymikec]

I'm amazed that Jewish Israelis are totally cool with the idea of crushing the Palestinians. What will it take for them to wonder:

Gas chambers? But frankly when they're happy to abduct and black-bag children in the night, they're not far off.

As far as I'm concerned, the Palestinians' backs are against the wall, they should do pretty much everything in their power to survive. I'd donate to them if I wasn't sure I'd get done for 'funding terrorism'.

 

[dank69]

Messy situation all around, however, after watching this latest round of violence play out in slow-motion, the Israeli government is 100% to blame for this one. I saw video of Israelis terrorizing Palestinians even worse than American cops terrorizing BLM protesters, and everyone is shocked to see Palestinians fighting back? Fuck Netanyahu. He is every bit as corrupt as Trump.

 

[rommelrommel]

So it's not indiscriminately? it's targeted then? It must be morally exhausting to have to keep defending this.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1394857846559232006

It‘s neither targeted at kids nor indiscriminate. It’s targeted at Hamas.

Speaking accurately is not defending anything.

 

[rommelrommel]

I think it's more likely that Israel continues to ethnically cleanse it's territories until the Palestinians have no place in Israels boarders.

Sounds like both will keep occurring, at least insofar as the West Bank is inside Israeli borders. Hamas wants Israel to not exist, and that gives hard liners like Bibi the cover they need to keep doing what they’re doing with settlements in the West Bank.

 

[IronWing]

Sounds like both will keep occurring, at least insofar as the West Bank is inside Israeli borders. Hamas wants Israel to not exist, and that gives hard liners like Bibi the cover they need to keep doing what they’re doing with settlements in the West Bank.

If only the Palestinians would accept the fate we have in mind for them, we wouldn’t have to bomb them.

 

[HomerJS]

I've been seeing a lot about Hamas in the news. When I look them up, I see that they seem to often launch attacks at Jews from hospitals, schools and apartments. Once the inevitable retaliation comes, Hamas seems to always have camera crews ready to document all of the resulting civilian casualties, which of course makes it all look like some kind of sick attack by the Jews on defenseless people.

I recently saw a news article referring to them as "Hamas terrorists". I found myself wondering - does a typical person view them this way?

Is any group using children, hospital patients and civilians as a "human shield" for their attacks to be considered a terrorist group?

This isn't required to be considered a terrorist group. If that is your definition then they are not.

We have a far greater concern with the white nationalist terrorists in our own country. That is where our focus needs to be.

 

[Muse]

Messy situation all around, however, after watching this latest round of violence play out in slow-motion, the Israeli government is 100% to blame for this one. I saw video of Israelis terrorizing Palestinians even worse than American cops terrorizing BLM protesters, and everyone is shocked to see Palestinians fighting back? Fuck Netanyahu. He is every bit as corrupt as Trump.

I think the single most positive event that can happen in the "short term" vis a vis the Israel/Palestine conflicts (other than a cease fire, but that's a different dimension) is Netanyahu losing his power. A big help also would be a repudiation of Hamas by Palestinians. A two state solution can't happen if Hamas has dominance.

 

[rommelrommel]

If only the Palestinians would accept the fate we have in mind for them, we wouldn’t have to bomb them.

It‘s circular tho, Israeli politics are not a monolith. The 90’s center left governments were trying to seek peace in good faith imo. However, when Hamas became active and started with the Israel needs to not exist hard line, that brought hard liners to power in Israel.

I disagree with the settlements in the West Bank and continued Israeli military rule of the area. But unless Hamas will accept Israel’s right to exist, I doubt they will stop taking as much of the West Bank as possible.

 

[mect]

Hamas is a terrorist organization, and Israel is committing war crimes. Neither of the powers at play over there are good organizations. At the same time, the general populations on both sides are the ones that suffer as a result.

 

[KMFJD]

Is any group using children, hospital patients and civilians as a "human shield" for their attacks to be considered a terrorist group?

U.N. report accuses Israeli forces of using Palestinian children as human shields, abusing children in custody

U.N body on child rights makes explosive accusations; Israel dismisses as old news

www.cbsnews.com

b b but Hamas

 

[brycejones]

Hamas is a terrorist organization, and Israel is committing war crimes. Neither of the powers at play over there are good organizations. At the same time, the general populations on both sides are the ones that suffer as a result.

But acknowledging that doesn't get us any closer to the second coming of Jesus.

 

[mect]

But acknowledging that doesn't get us any closer to the second coming of Jesus.

I keep waiting for all the Christians to realize he already came again, and they crucified him a second time.

 

[Juiblex]

Hamas is not a terrorist organization. They are fighting the only battle they can... And I can guarantee there is more terror for Palestinian on a daily basis compared to the Jews of the world.

 

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

I think a first step towards peace would have to be each group recognizing IN WRITING, the right of the other to self determination. I'm not sure that is possible.

For example, in the Hamas charter, we have things like "The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, 'O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."

 

[brycejones]

I keep waiting for all the Christians to realize he already came again, and they crucified him a second time.

I know! It's absolutely awful how Trump was treated by the RADICAL LEFT!

 

[UNCjigga]

I'd say you could make a case that both sides of that fucked up area are "terrorists" with tit-for-tat going back generations. And the USA has it's share of blame for it.

Fuck that. Blame the Brits first. Balfour was their blunder.

 

[woolfe9998]

I don't care Why they are committing Genocide, I only care That they are doing it.

They aren't "committing genocide" though. That's a bald faced lie which I already debunked in the other thread.

Try out any definition of "genocide" you can find, then try to fit these facts into that definition. Go ahead.

Oh, and of course you couldn't care less about anti-Semitism. None of you do.

 

[woolfe9998]

Hamas is not a terrorist organization. They are fighting the only battle they can... And I can guarantee there is more terror for Palestinian on a daily basis compared to the Jews of the world.

Hamas doesn't have to be fighting any battle at all. Israel did not go to war with the Pals ~2000. That started because organizations like Hamas do not believe in a 2-state solution and prefer war instead. Saying that a group who choses war over a peace deal which would have created a Palestinian state is "fighting the only battle they can" is incredibly dishonest.

 

[woolfe9998]

I'm amazed that Jewish Israelis are totally cool with the idea of crushing the Palestinians. What will it take for them to wonder:

Gas chambers? But frankly when they're happy to abduct and black-bag children in the night, they're not far off.

As far as I'm concerned, the Palestinians' backs are against the wall, they should do pretty much everything in their power to survive. I'd donate to them if I wasn't sure I'd get done for 'funding terrorism'.

You're "amazed" that they want to retaliate against a group who is physically attacking them.

Oh yeah, I forgot, they're just exactly like the Nazis. Yup, exactly the same.

Fucking pig.

 

[woolfe9998]

I think the single most positive event that can happen in the "short term" vis a vis the Israel/Palestine conflicts (other than a cease fire, but that's a different dimension) is Netanyahu losing his power. A big help also would be a repudiation of Hamas by Palestinians. A two state solution can't happen if Hamas has dominance.

Yes, Netanyahu being out of power would be helpful. The problem is that these rocket attacks strengthen him politically. Which is exactly what Hamas desires. Hamas doesn't want any leaders in Israel who want peace, because they themselves do not want peace.

 

[mikeymikec]

You're "amazed" that they want to retaliate against a group who is physically attacking them.

Oh yeah, I forgot, they're just exactly like the Nazis. Yup, exactly the same.

Fucking pig.

Come off it. Israel has been expanding its territory into Palestinian territory ever since the British helped it take land that didn't belong to them in the first place. Palestinians are being thrown out of their homes. Unsurprisingly they have a problem with that. I'd be highly surprised if you didn't have a problem with being thrown out of your home because your neighbour fancies it.

 

[woolfe9998]

Come off it. Israel has been expanding its territory into Palestinian territory ever since the British helped it take land that didn't belong to them in the first place. Palestinians are being thrown out of their homes. Unsurprisingly they have a problem with that. I'd be highly surprised if you didn't have a problem with being thrown out of your home because your neighbour fancies it.

Yeah let's shift the goalposts from Nazi comparisons to "Israel is expanding into Palestinian territory" and "unsurprisingly they have a problem with it." Because any time a country moves into territory and the people there have a problem with it, they are "the same" as Nazis. These comparisons are exactly what Godwin's law was meant to mock.

There's a pattern here. Every time one of you tools compares Israel to the Nazis, or claims they are committing "genocide," then gets called on it, instead of defending the comparison, the response is to say, "but but, Israel is doing bad things." As if every arguably bad thing is "the same" as genocide, or Nazism.

Don't bother with a reply unless you are prepared to defend your original comments, by making historical comparisons of a factual nature. You made the comments, so defend them.