is Hamas a terrorist organization?

[mikeymikec]

Yeah let's shift the goalposts from Nazi comparisons to "Israel is expanding into Palestinian territory" and "unsurprisingly they have a problem with it." Because any time a country moves into territory and the people there have a problem with it, they are "the same" as Nazis. These comparisons are exactly what Godwin's law was meant to mock.

There's a pattern here. Every time one of you tools compares Israel to the Nazis, or claims they are committing "genocide," then gets called on it, instead of defending the comparison, the response is to say, "but but, Israel is doing bad things." As if every arguably bad thing is "the same" as genocide, or Nazism.

Don't bother with a reply unless you are prepared to defend your original comments, by making historical comparisons of a factual nature. You made the comments, so defend them.

Jesus, what's your problem. Fine, I'll defend what you perceive to be a Nazi comparison. The comedy sketch it comes from is 'Mitchell & Webb' featuring two soldiers in the German army and one starts wondering whether the shit they do is really morally justifiable. That is why I referenced it. I mentioned gas chambers because I'm wondering just how far Israel would have to go before they collectively realise just how morally repugnant their position is, and I'm amazed because they basically should all know better than to subject their neighbours to at least half the shit that their oldest citizens experienced.

I see no reason for you to accuse me of shifting the goalposts either, your response implied you wanted me to elaborate on my position and I did. But by all means keep up the insults and accusations if that yanks your crank. I was under the impression that you normally appreciated civil discourse.

 

[woolfe9998]

Jesus, what's your problem. Fine, I'll defend what you perceive to be a Nazi comparison. The comedy sketch it comes from is from the comedy series 'Mitchell & Webb' featuring two soldiers in the German army and one starts wondering whether the shit they do is really morally justifiable. That is why I referenced it. I mentioned gas chambers because I'm wondering just how far Israel would have to go before they collectively realise just how morally repugnant their position is, and I'm amazed because they basically should all know better than to subject their neighbours to at least half the shit that their oldest citizens experienced.

Oh, so when you said

Gas chambers? But frankly when they're happy to abduct and black-bag children in the night, they're not far off.

you weren't really making a Nazi comparison when you claimed what they were doing was "not far off" from throwing millions of people into gas chambers? Nor are the people using the term "Gaza ghetto" or talking about Israel's "lebensraum" making Nazi comparisons either? Who the fuck you people think you're gaslighting here?

You're just like the two guys I called out on their use of the term "genocide" and then they sat quiet unable to defend it. The problem is that words do have meaning and the words you choose do matter. That's an important lesson these days especially for people on the right, but obviously it applies to some of the left as well.

 

[Steltek]

Well, at least they may have a cease-fire agreement (for as long as it will last).

Israel and Hamas agree to cease-fire over Gaza conflict

Israel and Hamas agreed to a cease-fire Thursday after 11 days of fighting that has left more than 200 people dead in the Gaza Strip and 12 dead in Israel.

www.cnbc.com

 

[mikeymikec]

Oh, so when you said

you weren't really making a Nazi comparison when you claimed what they were doing was "not far off" from throwing millions of people into gas chambers? Nor are the people using the term "Gaza ghetto" or talking about Israel's "lebensraum" making Nazi comparisons either? Who the fuck you people think you're gaslighting here?

You're just like the two guys I called out on their use of the term "genocide" and then they sat quiet unable to defend it. The problem is that words do have meaning and the words you choose do matter. That's an important lesson these days especially for people on the right, but obviously it applies to some of the left as well.

I'm simply going to ignore any of your comments that involve that seemingly ask me to justify what other people have said, hopefully you'll catch on and stop doing it.

In my opinion I think what Israel is doing to Palestine is utterly morally repugnant. Israel is not defending itself, it is steadily wiping out Palestine. They're happy to do the things I've asserted like kidnapping children in the night and terrorising the shit out of them, they're happy to take peoples' homes away from them, and the Israeli people generally are seemingly perfectly happy with the state of affairs except of course when the rockets come flying back. The Nazis did similar shit to the Jews. How far is Israel willing to go, I don't know. I would have thought that a nation that experienced this shit for themselves would be kinda sensitive to the idea of subjecting others to anything like what they've experienced, but apparently not. If we were talking about one person becoming the kind of shithead that they were the victim of is believable, but for generations of millions of people to drink that kool-aid just blows my mind.

Why do you think that Palestine should roll on its back and take it?

 

[WelshBloke]

Fuck that. Blame the Brits first. Balfour was their blunder.

This is true. However it's not like the Brits had much of a choice in how that was implemented in the end.

Lehi (militant group) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Homerboy]

I stopped reading the OP when he used "... by the Jews..."

 

[Homerboy]

I'd say you could make a case that both sides of that fucked up area are "terrorists" with tit-for-tat going back generations. And the USA has it's share of blame for it.

There's no "tit-for-tat" when the outcomes are so grossly one sided. that phrase implies equivalency.

 

[Muse]

Yes, Netanyahu being out of power would be helpful. The problem is that these rocket attacks strengthen him politically. Which is exactly what Hamas desires. Hamas doesn't want any leaders in Israel who want peace, because they themselves do not want peace.

I suppose that's actually likely. Hamas are all about armed terrorism. Absent that, they disappear like the morning haze.

 

[woolfe9998]

I'm simply going to ignore any of your comments that involve that seemingly ask me to justify what other people have said, hopefully you'll catch on and stop doing it.

The things those other people said are no different than what you've said. People who hate Israel love to make Nazi comparisons. Nowhere is Godwin's Law more applicable than in anti-Israel threads on lefty discussion forums. I'll just leave it at that.

In my opinion I think what Israel is doing to Palestine is utterly morally repugnant. Israel is not defending itself, it is steadily wiping out Palestine. They're happy to do the things I've asserted like kidnapping children in the night and terrorising the shit out of them, they're happy to take peoples' homes away from them, and the Israeli people generally are seemingly perfectly happy with the state of affairs except of course when the rockets come flying back. The Nazis did similar shit to the Jews. How far is Israel willing to go, I don't know. I would have thought that a nation that experienced this shit for themselves would be kinda sensitive to the idea of subjecting others to anything like what they've experienced, but apparently not.

Why do you think that Palestine should roll on its back and take it?

You, like everyone else, are purposefully ignoring the role the Palestinians have in their own plight. Such as the fact that they were offered 94% of the West Bank and 100% of Gaza as territory in which to form their own state, the fact that their leader never bothered to even counter the offer, and the fact that the Pals started suicide bombings shortly thereafter.

Israel is not blameless in this. Their response to these provocations, particularly now that a wall is in place and their casualties are minimal, has been too harsh. But that is not in spite of the Holocaust - it is really more because of it. What do you think it does to a people who have been slaughtered for 2000 years, and have mostly been passive throughout all of it? They arm themselves, and they reach a tipping point - the Holocaust - where they become extremely militant in defending against any physical threat.

At present, the Pals in Gaza have chosen a group of homicidal anti-Semites as their leaders. The Pals have a long history of anti-Semitic leaders, going all the way back to the Mufti of Jerusalem who was a Nazi collaborator. And this group is firing rockets at them. So think about that - does being a victim of genocide (an actual real one) make one want to be kinder and gentler to groups who physically attack them? I think your reasoning is off.

 

[sandorski]

The things those other people said are no different than what you've said. People who hate Israel love to make Nazi comparisons. Nowhere is Godwin's Law more applicable than in anti-Israel threads on lefty discussion forums. I'll just leave it at that.



You, like everyone else, are purposefully ignoring the role the Palestinians have in their own plight. Such as the fact that they were offered 94% of the West Bank and 100% of Gaza as territory in which to form their own state, the fact that their leader never bothered to even counter the offer, and the fact that the Pals started suicide bombings shortly thereafter.

Israel is not blameless in this. Their response to these provocations, particularly now that a wall is in place and their casualties are minimal, has been too harsh. But that is not in spite of the Holocaust - it is really more because of it. What do you think it does to a people who have been slaughtered for 2000 years, and have mostly been passive throughout all of it? They arm themselves, and they reach a tipping point - the Holocaust - where they become extremely militant in defending against any physical threat.

At present, the Pals in Gaza have chosen a group of homicidal anti-Semites as their leaders. The Pals have a long history of anti-Semitic leaders, going all the way back to the Mufti of Jerusalem who was a Nazi collaborator. And this group is firing rockets at them. So think about that - does being a victim of genocide (an actual real one) make one want to be kinder and gentler to groups who physically attack them? I think your reasoning is off.

Stop making excuses. Wrong is Wrong.

 

[woolfe9998]

Stop making excuses. Wrong is Wrong.

Stop lying. Lying is wrong.

 

[mikeymikec]

At present, the Pals in Gaza have chosen a group of homicidal anti-Semites as their leaders. The Pals have a long history of anti-Semitic leaders, going all the way back to the Mufti of Jerusalem who was a Nazi collaborator. And this group is firing rockets at them.

Anti-Semitism could be found everywhere in the world throughout most of human history, so it makes more sense to talk about recent history. I would not be even vaguely surprised to learn that Palestinians are anti-Semitic, just as I would be Jack's complete lack of surprise to learn that most Irish people hated the living shit out of the English during the time of our occupation of their land. Give people a good reason to hate and don't expect their hate to remain strictly confined to exactly what their oppressors do to hate them.

So think about that - does being a victim of genocide (an actual real one) make one want to be kinder and gentler to groups who physically attack them? I think your reasoning is off.

If one wants to liken people to animals, sure. However, humanity is capable of being more than that. The outcome of WW2 has changed the character of Germany considerably from what I understand.

Personally, I'd expect the Israelis to punch back hard against anyone who tries to pull any such shit against them for a long time after the Holocaust, but in this war with Palestine they've had the upper hand for long enough that IMO they could have found a way to toe the line between peace and letting their neighbours know that they'll come down hard on anyone who threatens that peace.

 

[woolfe9998]

Anti-Semitism could be found everywhere in the world throughout most of human history, so it makes more sense to talk about recent history. I would not be even vaguely surprised to learn that Palestinians are anti-Semitic, just as I would be Jack's complete lack of surprise to learn that most Irish people hated the living shit out of the English during the time of our occupation of their land. Give people a good reason to hate and don't expect their hate to remain strictly confined to exactly what their oppressors do to hate them.

The reason history is relevant here is that Palestinian Anti-Semitism dates all the way back to the beginning of this. Long before any were dispossessed in 1948, and long before any of their current complaints about checkpoints, blockades and reprisals. That anti-Semtisim has animated this conflict for a century now. The Jews know they are anti-Semitic, and it reminds them once again why they feel they must be militant.

Hamas has explained in its own charter that they want the Jews out because they are not Muslim and this holy land belongs to Muslims. This is what their leaders were saying when Jews were migrating there in the early 20th century in order to escape mass murder in Europe, and it's what their leaders are saying now.

That sort of old world religious intolerance is not something which I, as a liberal, am required to tolerate. Any more than I am required to tolerate the religious right in America and its Islamophobia, which is yet another form of old world religious intolerance.

If one wants to liken people to animals, sure. However, humanity is capable of being more than that. The outcome of WW2 has changed the character of Germany considerably from what I understand.

Personally, I'd expect the Israelis to punch back hard against anyone who tries to pull any such shit against them for a long time after the Holocaust, but in this war with Palestine they've had the upper hand for long enough that IMO they could have found a way to toe the line between peace and letting their neighbours know that they'll come down hard on anyone who threatens that peace.

I agree with some of what you say here, but in order to be critical, you have to understand the group psychology. The Jews who survived the Holocaust were tough. They had to be to survive. Many of those Jews were actually angry at the Jews who died because they felt that they hadn't fought back.

That is why the Jews have a bunker mentality (building walls) and meeting every use of force against them with tenfold force. There is a cause and effect relationship between past oppression of the Jews and this modern day mentality. In a perfect world, there wouldn't be. But in the real world, that is how things tend to work.

 

[mect]

The reason history is relevant here is that Palestinian Anti-Semitism dates all the way back to the beginning of this. Long before any were dispossessed in 1948, and long before any of their current complaints about checkpoints, blockades and reprisals. That anti-Semtisim has animated this conflict for a century now. The Jews know they are anti-Semitic, and it reminds them once again why they feel they must be militant.

Hamas has explained in its own charter that they want the Jews out because they are not Muslim and this holy land belongs to Muslims. This is what their leaders were saying when Jews were migrating there in the early 20th century in order to escape mass murder in Europe, and it's what their leaders are saying now.

That sort of old world religious intolerance is not something which I, as a liberal, am required to tolerate. Any more than I am required to tolerate the religious right in America and its Islamophobia, which is yet another form of old world religious intolerance.



I agree with some of what you say here, but in order to be critical, you have to understand the group psychology. The Jews who survived the Holocaust were tough. They had to be to survive. Many of those Jews were actually angry at the Jews who died because they felt that they hadn't fought back.

That is why the Jews have a bunker mentality (building walls) and meeting every use of force against them with tenfold force. There is a cause and effect relationship between past oppression of the Jews and this modern day mentality. In a perfect world, there wouldn't be. But in the real world, that is how things tend to work.

That is understandable, but they are still committing war crimes against a people they vastly outstrip in power, and upon whom they are imposing severe oppression. While that response may be understandable, it is not a response the US or the rest of the international community should support. If Israel wants international support, they need to maintain the moral high ground, which they no longer have.

 

[woolfe9998]

That is understandable, but they are still committing war crimes against a people they vastly outstrip in power, and upon whom they are imposing severe oppression. While that response may be understandable, it is not a response the US or the rest of the international community should support. If Israel wants international support, they need to maintain the moral high ground, which they no longer have.

I understand, but first, there is a dispute of fact over what Israel is actually doing. For example, many people around here accuse Israel of intentionally killing civilians in these strikes. But that makes no sense, as Israel knows that Hamas wants them to kill civilians so that they can use the civilian casualties to bring international pressure on Israel, yanking military and economic aid until Israel is theoretically weakened to the point where they can be conquered by the Pals. Israel knows that is what they are doing, so why would they intentionally target civilians and play right into their hands?

Other things I agree. Israel's level of force is not justified by the rocket threat. Considerably less force would suffice. And security measures imposed on the Pals are more than is necessary. These policies are products of a right wing, hardline regime. The key problem here is that the hardliners are going to continue to be elected, even after Netanyahu is gone, so long as the attacks continue. And the attacks will not stop until Hamas is gone.

So that is the impasse we are currently in.

 

[WelshBloke]

The things those other people said are no different than what you've said. People who hate Israel love to make Nazi comparisons. Nowhere is Godwin's Law more applicable than in anti-Israel threads on lefty discussion forums. I'll just leave it at that.

I mean feel free to use some other example of a state thats done to the Palestinian territories what Israel has.
Once you basically imprison an entire population into an area under your control, control all supplies that go into and out of that territory, deny the free movement of that population, enact collective punishment on the people there, and use indiscriminate overwhelming force against those people it starts getting difficult not to make comparisons to other horrible regimes.

 

[woolfe9998]

I mean feel free to use some other example of a state thats done to the Palestinian territories what Israel has.
Once you basically imprison an entire population into an area under your control, control all supplies that go into and out of that territory, deny the free movement of that population, enact collective punishment on the people there, and use indiscriminate overwhelming force against those people it starts getting difficult not to make comparisons to other horrible regimes.

I disagree. I don't think it's at all difficult to not compare two things which are not comparable. The Nazis, in the span of a little under 4 years, murdered ~6 million Jews and 4 million non-Jews. None of these people ever attacked Germany or Germans. By contrast, the Palestinians have attacked, and many times. The result - about 10K Palestinians have met their demise at the hands of Israel - over a span of about 54 years, since Israel first occupied those territories.

And the conditions in those territories in comparison to the ghettos that the Jews were forced into in places like Warsaw, Krakow, and Lodz? Over 600,000 Jews died in those ghettos, before the remainder were sent to extermination camps. You were lucky to survive in those ghettos for more than a single year. These conditions are not even remotely comparable. Palestinian population is growing an a fairly average pace, while the Jews were systematically annihilated by the Nazis.

The problem is people purposefully choosing very loaded words as a form of hyperbolic political rhetoric. When you compare Israel, a Jewish homeland which everyone knows is supported by the vast majority of Jews, to the Nazis, and say they committed "genocide" when these comparisons are utterly absurd, then you should expect Jews to react not with shame, but with hostility. I can't blame them. Jews are tired of non-Jews lying about Jews. Lies about Jews have fueled every form of oppression and slaughter the Jews have endured. It's why their advocacy group is called "The Anti-Defamation League."

 

[WelshBloke]

I disagree. I don't think it's at all difficult to not compare two things which are not comparable. The Nazis, in the span of a little under 4 years, murdered ~6 million Jews and 4 million non-Jews. None of these people ever attacked Germany or Germans. By contrast, the Palestinians have attacked, and many times. The result - about 10K Palestinians have met their demise at the hands of Israel - over a span of about 54 years, since Israel first occupied those territories.

And the conditions in those territories in comparison to the ghettos that the Jews were forced into in places like Warsaw, Krakow, and Lodz? Over 600,000 Jews died in those ghettos, before the remainder were sent to extermination camps. You were lucky to survive in those ghettos for more than a single year. These conditions are not even remotely comparable. Palestinian population is growing an a fairly average pace, while the Jews were systematically annihilated by the Nazis.

The problem is people purposefully choosing very loaded words as a form of hyperbolic political rhetoric. When you compare Israel, a Jewish homeland which everyone knows is supported by the vast majority of Jews, to the Nazis, and say they committed "genocide" when these comparisons are utterly absurd, then you should expect Jews to react not with shame, but with hostility. I can't blame them. Jews are tired of non-Jews lying about Jews. Lies about Jews have fueled every form of oppression and slaughter the Jews have endured. It's why their advocacy group is called "The Anti-Defamation League."

I mean all you said there was "But Israel isnt literally Nazi Germany", which isnt what my post was saying.

You seem to want people to pussyfoot around the terms that can be used for how Israel is behaving in case Israel gets its feels hurt, rather than actually describing accurately what Israel is doing to a huge civilian population.

Feel free to go back to my post and address anything there though.

 

[woolfe9998]

I mean all you said there was "But Israel isnt literally Nazi Germany", which isnt what my post was saying.

You seem to want people to pussyfoot around the terms that can be used for how Israel is behaving in case Israel gets its feels hurt, rather than actually describing accurately what Israel is doing to a huge civilian population.

Feel free to go back to my post and address anything there though.

Not calling them Nazis isn't "pussyfooting around." You want to talk about pussyfooting around? The left thinks we have to be hyper-sensitive to everything which might offend anyone in a racial sense, no matter how subtle, no matter how unlikely the person in question intended the offense. Yet refraining from telling the Jews that they support a Nazi like regime, well, that is just the Jews being too brittle, right?

Let me repeat. The Nazi comparison and the genocide allegations are lies. Jews are tired of gentiles lying about Jews, and they take grave offense to it. I'm sorry that you are unsympathetic to the offense being taken, but then you have no cause to be cancelling anyone for saying pretty much anything.

 

[WelshBloke]

Not calling them Nazis isn't "pussyfooting around." You want to talk about pussyfooting around? The left thinks we have to be hyper-sensitive to everything which might offend anyone in a racial sense, no matter how subtle, no matter how unlikely the person in question intended the offense. Yet refraining from telling the Jews that they support a Nazi like regime, well, that is just the Jews being too brittle, right?

Let me repeat. The Nazi comparison and the genocide allegations are lies. Jews are tied of gentiles lying about Jews, and they take grave offense to it. I'm sorry that you are unsympathetic to the offense being taken, but then you have no cause to be cancelling anyone for saying pretty much anything.

Feel free to point out where I called Israel Nazis.

OK lets play a hypothetical mind game.

Imagine that a country has a sizable Jewish population.

Now imagine that that country encircles the Jewish areas of that country. It stops any unauthorised entry or exit from that area. It controls everything that goes into and out of that area. It regularly enacts communal punishment on the Jewish population there. It act with overwhelming force if an acts of disobedience happen.

How do you feel about that countries actions to the Jewish population there? Would you be surprised if a minority of the Jewish population fought back? Would you support the oppressing country in their suppression of the Jewish population because of that?

 

[woolfe9998]

Feel free to point out where I called Israel Nazis.

You didn't. You instead defended those who did.

OK lets play a hypothetical mind game.

Imagine that a country has a sizable Jewish population.

Now imagine that that country encircles the Jewish areas of that country. It stops any unauthorised entry or exit from that area. It controls everything that goes into and out of that area. It regularly enacts communal punishment on the Jewish population there. It act with overwhelming force if an acts of disobedience happen.

How do you feel about that countries actions to the Jewish population there? Would you be surprised if a minority of the Jewish population fought back? Would you support the oppressing country in their suppression of the Jewish population because of that?

The problem is that you left several things out of your hypothetical. You left out the same things that all the rest of you conveniently leave out, like in the other thread which starts with a video of Palestinians being shoved by Israeli police, and it takes 15 posts before anyone even bothers to mention the 400 rockets being fired which is what provoked it.

Add to your hypothetical the following: the Jews were offered their own state, rejected it without negotiation, then chose to initiate suicide bombings and attacks against the non-Jews. Then and only then were the oppressive security measures put in place. In that case, I might still object to the measures if I thought them overly harsh, but I sure as hell would blame the Jews as well.

I don't agree with the "fighting back" formulation here. I think many of the Palestinians prefer to fight rather than seek any kind of peaceful resolution. I think they'd rather fight than choose peace on any reasonable terms. I know this is the case for Hamas, because it says so right in their charter, and it's undoubtedly also the case for those who support them and voted them into power. You don't get to do that, to choose war over a peaceful solution, then claim to always be the victim. No matter how battered you are getting because you chose to fight an adversary who is more powerful than you, you still bear responsibility for your own choices.

 

[IronWing]

You didn't. You instead defended those who did.



The problem is that you left several things out of your hypothetical. You left out the same things that all the rest of you conveniently leave out, like in the other thread which starts with a video of Palestinians being shoved by Israeli police, and it takes 15 posts before anyone even bothers to mention the 400 rockets being fired which is what provoked it.

Add to your hypothetical the following: the Jews were offered their own state, rejected it without negotiation, then chose to initiate suicide bombings and attacks against the non-Jews. Then and only then were the oppressive security measures put in place. In that case, I might still object to the measures if I thought them overly harsh, but I sure as hell would blame the Jews as well.

I don't agree with the "fighting back" formulation here. I think many of the Palestinians prefer to fight rather than seek any kind of peaceful resolution. I think they'd rather fight than choose peace on any reasonable terms. I know this is the case for Hamas, because it says so right in their charter, and it's undoubtedly also the case for those who support them and voted them into power. You don't get to do that, to choose war over a peaceful solution, then claim to always be the victim. No matter how battered you are getting because you chose to fight an adversary who is more powerful than you, you still bear responsibility for your own choices.

Your just so story is nothing but a just so story. Violence by Israeli groups against Arabs was well underway even prior to the declaration of the Israeli state. The inconvenient fact of the Israeli state is that it was founded on violence and theft. So your statement, "Then and only then were the oppressive security measures put in place." is simply a lie.

 

[woolfe9998]

Your just so story is nothing but a just so story. Violence by Israeli groups against Arabs was well underway even prior to the declaration of the Israeli state. The inconvenient fact of the Israeli state is that it was founded on violence and theft. So your statement, "Then and only then were the oppressive security measures put in place." is simply a lie.

Sure, and the Palestinians Arabs were not violent toward the Jews. Just like the Palestinians are never violent unless provoked by the Jews. They and their leaders are such peace loving people.

Take your pseudo history and shove it.

 

[IronWing]

Sure, and the Palestinians Arabs were not violent toward the Jews. Just like the Palestinians are never violent unless provoked by the Jews. They and their leaders are such peace loving people.

Take your pseudo history and shove it.

You choose to ignore any facts that are contrary to your fantasy.

 

[WelshBloke]

You didn't. You instead defended those who did.

I'm not defending anyone here, I'm making my own points.

The problem is that you left several things out of your hypothetical. You left out the same things that all the rest of you conveniently leave out, like in the other thread which starts with a video of Palestinians being shoved by Israeli police, and it takes 15 posts before anyone even bothers to mention the 400 rockets being fired which is what provoked it.

The thing is that those Palestinians being pushed by the police arent the ones firing the rockets.
In the same way its wrong to target a Jewish guy in NYC because a Jewish guy in Israel shot a kid.

Add to your hypothetical the following: the Jews were offered their own state, rejected it without negotiation, then chose to initiate suicide bombings and attacks against the non-Jews. Then and only then were the oppressive security measures put in place. In that case, I might still object to the measures if I thought them overly harsh, but I sure as hell would blame the Jews as well.

So you shouldnt fight back against your territory being taken away or you should? Just for clarity, because it seems like you are saying its fine for Israel to fight for territory and security but not Palestinians.

I don't agree with the "fighting back" formulation here. I think many of the Palestinians prefer to fight rather than seek any kind of peaceful resolution. I think they'd rather fight than choose peace on any reasonable terms. I know this is the case for Hamas, because it says so right in their charter, and it's undoubtedly also the case for those who support them and voted them into power. You don't get to do that, to choose war over a peaceful solution, then claim to always be the victim. No matter how battered you are getting because you chose to fight an adversary who is more powerful than you, you still bear responsibility for your own choices.

Yes. Palestinians are happy to see their kids get blown up by Israeli air strikes just because they want to throw stones at the IDF.

I mean they couldn't be acting like that because of the untenable conditions that the Israelis keep them in. It just that they really, really like throwing stones at heavily armed opponents.