Is "Executive Orders" (Tom Clancy) appropriate read for a 13 yr old ?

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TheNoblePlatypus

Senior member
Dec 18, 2001
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uhh negative. "Red Storm Rising" was before "The Hunt for Red October".

And if IIRC there was actually another book that Clancy Co-Wrote with another author that could even be thought of as a precursor to Red Storm Rising.

The time the books take place goes as follows: Without Remorse, Patriot Games, Red Rabbit, The Hunt for Red October, Cardinal of the Kremlin, Clear and Present Danger, The Sum of All Fears, Debt of Honor, Executive Orders, Rainbow Six, The Bear and the Dragon, and The Teeth of the Tiger. Some were printed at different dates as a prequel and some are just awful, but as far I know this is how they're supposed to take place.


The only mainstream authors you'd want to stay away from is Clive Barker and Anne Rice. I assume graphic depictions of homoerotica is also on your list.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
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I read Ender's Game, which graphically describes two kids brutally beating the shit out of each other, when I was 11. Your kid will be fine, and will probably soon discover porn if he hasn't already. Haven't read much Clancy, but IIRC it's pretty tame (well, tame compared to the internet anyway).
 

Sea Moose

Diamond Member
May 12, 2009
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I did not mean for this to be a flame war.

My desire is to keep him away from material that is deliberately erotic ... like the kind the american media indulges in. I would have no problem with him seeing a movie where a women walks out naked from the shower. But I would have problem with him seeing a movie showing a woman performing oral sex (even if it was shown obliquely)

And please ... I have heard that stereotypically response "Oh, you will be shocked what he already knows". Wrong. We are the Discovery / Science / History channel nerds at our house. We have NEVER EVER watched a sitcom since he was born. We stay away from shows that rely on sexual innuendos to get ratings. My wife and I are also very particular that he not watch anything that demeans women. So that is that //


bubblewrap.jpg


Does this belong to you?
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
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The time the books take place goes as follows: Without Remorse, Patriot Games, Red Rabbit, The Hunt for Red October, Cardinal of the Kremlin, Clear and Present Danger, The Sum of All Fears, Debt of Honor, Executive Orders, Rainbow Six, The Bear and the Dragon, and The Teeth of the Tiger. Some were printed at different dates as a prequel and some are just awful, but as far I know this is how they're supposed to take place.


The only mainstream authors you'd want to stay away from is Clive Barker and Anne Rice. I assume graphic depictions of homoerotica is also on your list.

Yeah, let's have none of that evil sexuality. We should stick with good clean violence.
 

shadow9d9

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2004
8,132
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We are talking about a guy that thinks because he keeps the history channel on his tv, that his child will not be exposed to reality. Sad.

Your parenting will lead to guilt about sexuality and could easily lead to serious psychological problems.

Protecting your child from the world will leave them unprepared for the world.

And I agree with the previous poster.. Violence= good, Sex= bad? No wonder the US is the most sexually repressed countries of all the first world countries.
 

SunSamurai

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2005
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What's with the fucking I'll parent your child mentality? Seriously, he asked question about a book. Not advice on parenting.


Do you know where you are right now? Because you seem fucking lost.
 
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Sea Moose

Diamond Member
May 12, 2009
6,933
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Originally Posted by foghorn67 View Post
What's with the fucking I'll parent your child mentality? Seriously, he asked question about a book. Not advice on parenting.

Do you know where you are right now? Because you see fucking lost.

The fact that op is trying to control what 13year old reads means that when child turns 18 he is going to have huge problems.

I think that you should teach children how to deal with the world and not try to deny the existence of the big wide world.

Child might read the sex parts of a book and it could open dialogue with parents about safe sex.

Cliffs: Children need to learn how to deal with and survive in the real world.
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
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The problem with 'protecting' your 13 year old son from overt sexuality and possible demeaning attitudes towards women is that you apparently believe that reading such will influence him to act in a like manner. Do you also believe playing violent video games will lead to violent acting out? Do you think that knowledge of other world views automatically means adopting them outright?

You may already be a lost cause. I can only hope your son's interest in reading gives him a broader perspective than you have. FYI there is more overt sexuality, torture, bondage and discipline in classic literature than in any modern novel.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
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LOL

100% sure fire way to make sure you kid finds it elsewhere

He's gonna be surfing the internet for hardcore porn by 16.

I'm pretty sure i was finding the free pics and videos a few years before 16 (on dial-up no less). I also got drunk for the first time at 15.
:D

I must have been some kind of evil wild child intent on disrupting peaceful society and causing as much mayhem as possible.

Seriously, I'm going to emulate my parents if and when I have kids. As long as me and my older sister maintained a trusting relationship with my parents, we were essentially free. We weren't shielded from anything, I was watching R rated movies before I was 10. Granted, parents weren't always around, and that's the joy of having an older sibling and cousins.

My parents censored content for me once. That was the (first?) Smash Mouth cd that I got for christmas. They hadn't seen the Parental Advisory label when they bought it, but saw it once it was opened. They heard one of the songs and took it away. I was so pissed. lol
Just listened to it at a friend's house instead (he had it too).

I never really ran into the M rated video game issues until I was around 15, and my parents weren't censoring me then. Prior to that, never really had any games out there that warranted censoring, besides Conkers Bad Fur Day which I never got into. We did have Mortal Kombat II with SNES, but really... that's like Disney compared to most M rated games.

Unless kids are subject to relentless helicopter parenting that prevents them from even being with friends without parents, they are going to be exposed to stuff.

And that's when problems can erupt. With such intense helicopter parenting, when kids finally get a chance to break free, some do, some don't. The ones that do, wow can it be insane to witness. I'd say it's more of a gamble to helicopter parent than it is to build a working trust-filled relationship with your kid. When trust gets broken, you crack down. Otherwise, ease off on the censorship because psychologically speaking, it can be pretty damaging. Easing a kid at a young age into the complexities of the real world and letting them experience things on their own (unless you control a kid's choice of friends, they WILL find things out through that route), can help cement a stronger mental base for them to understand things. Teenagers are a mess with hormonal fluctuations, when they get bound tight and are kept on a tight leash, it can get bad. Sometimes such methods will be successful in preventing such a child from ever "doing evil", but this can cause social problems once they get into the world on their own, unless they can find such similar unaware young adults.

(sidenote: I am pretty focused on this, most of my degree and major is filled with the various 'ologies of the mental type, philosophy, psychology, sociology. Most of it is security related, but criminal and behavioral theories are pretty much universal, just the texts are focused on their application to specific subjects. No expect by any means, but my experiences, what I have witnessed, and the education... you would be surprised how much it matches up. humans are predictable in most cases /long sidenote)

I won't go into some of the other things I really want to say, because I don't want this to be a personal attack.

But there's a lot of things I witness that I find completely backward and that I do not agree with, things that are actually readily correctable. But humans are human, social issues are a plague and it worries me for future society. Society keeps technologically advancing yet makes no true social progress in terms of inter-relations.
 

SunSamurai

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2005
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If the sex scene is any good, you might have a better chance at getting grandchildren.

Its upto you to mold the boy to know when the right time is, not leave him guessing if there was a time to begin with.
 

TheNoblePlatypus

Senior member
Dec 18, 2001
291
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Yeah, let's have none of that evil sexuality. We should stick with good clean violence.

I was referring mostly to the hot man secks, no one wants to read that. This guy seems uptight enough that Clive Barker or Anne Rice would set his hair on fire.


By the way, Anne Rice is terrible. Just saying.
 

ilkhan

Golden Member
Jul 21, 2006
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At 24 Ive pretty much memorized the Ryan novels (I read a lot in short spans, I can pick up any page, read a sentence, and know exactly whats happened, happening, and going to happen). Start at the beginning, but they're fine a 13 Y.O.

Actual dates (by publishing or in book time) can be found on wiki, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryanverse

edit: I think I found my first porn at <10. While that was early, its probably more common today. Also, sex vs violence isn't an A *or* B thing.
 
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MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
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I was referring mostly to the hot man secks, no one wants to read that. This guy seems uptight enough that Clive Barker or Anne Rice would set his hair on fire.


By the way, Anne Rice is terrible. Just saying.

I'm just wondering how he manages to balance uptight conservatism and atheism.
 

vulcanman

Senior member
Apr 11, 2001
614
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I'm just wondering how he manages to balance uptight conservatism and atheism.

Someone here made the pt that since I posted this in OT ... I should be prepared for anything and everything. The responses have been been interesting ... to say the least. I asked for a tomato and I received a lecture on farming :) ... from some who are not even farmers :)

Here are the facts:

- I don't belong or care to belong in the "reality" world some speak of.

- I am a staunch atheist ! I believe in science not fantasy. Moreover, religion is a hiding place for scoundrels and hypocrites.

- I believe that as a parent, I have the right to decide what my kids eat ... and what they watch ... and who they hang out with. That is what 'parenting' is supposed to be. There is a term they coined for it. Its called "Parental Discretion" ... which I would venture to say has a negative correlation with "Parental Neglect".

- I believe that the media (the Shepherd) is constantly pushing the envelop on the definition of "Socially Acceptable" and the sheep willing succumb. A glance at the magazine rack at the local supermarket proves it. The sheep are responsible for the success of shows like "The Bachelor" and "Desperate Housewives".

- We also censor news at home because even the news media is realizing that they can grab viewers (the sheep) attention only if they delve into graphic details about a killing, a child abuse or a sexual crime.

- I believe there is a difference between a child seeing, say, a nude painting and seeing, say ... a "Penthouse" magazine. The first one is nudity and the second one is lewd. Turning the tables around, let me ask the sheep - If its ok for a 13 yr to read Penthouse ... Why is not ok for a 4 yr old to read it ? What age is appropriate ? The 'Shepherd' sure would like to know so they can figure out where next to move that proverbial envelop.

Ok ... so why did I ask the original question ? All I wanted to know was if the book had any sexual material in it. Some of you were very gracious with your in-context response. Some even suggested other books I should consider. I sincerely appreciate that.

Its been 'enlightening' in the most unexpected way :)

Thank you //
 
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TheNoblePlatypus

Senior member
Dec 18, 2001
291
0
76
Someone here made the pt that since I posted this in OT ... I should be prepared for anything and everything. The responses have been been interesting ... to say the least. I asked for a tomato and I received a lecture on farming :) ... from some who are not even farmers :)

They don't need kids to know you're doing it wrong. There are degrees of wrong, and being overly protective isn't as bad as the opposite end of the spectrum. It isn't abuse, but you're certainly not doing your kid any favors.

Here are the facts:

- I don't belong or care to belong in the "reality" world some speak of.
Yes, you do.

- I am a staunch atheist ! I believe in science not fantasy. Moreover, religion is a hiding place for scoundrels and hypocrites.
I'm sure your kid has heard this a few times. Which will make dealing with the fact that the majority of the population has religion of some form all the more painful for him.

- I believe that as a parent, I have the right to decide what my kids eat ... and what they watch ... and who they hang out with.
Sure does. Doesn't mean you aren't doing it wrong or working from the basis of whatever flawed childhood you suffered through as well.

That is what 'parenting' is supposed to be. There is a term they coined for it. Its called "Parental Discretion" ... which I would venture to say has a negative correlation with "Parental Neglect".
Parenting should be more about getting them prepared for life with what they need to know. Shielding them and letting them find out the hard way when they hit 18 doesn't seem like a great plan. Especially if your discomfort with sexual topics is just your projection onto your children.

- I believe that the media (the Shepherd) is constantly pushing the envelop on the definition of "Socially Acceptable" and the sheep willing succumb. A glance at the magazine rack at the local supermarket proves it. The sheep are responsible for the success of shows like "The Bachelor" and "Desperate Housewives".
The whole "sheep" and moral superiority thing will also set the kid up for a life of getting his ass kicked. People that watch the Bachelor or Desperate Housewives aren't hedonists or sheep, they just watch terrible television.

- We also censor news at home because even the news media is realizing that they can grab viewers (the sheep) attention only if they delve into graphic details about a killing, a child abuse or a sexual crime.
They really don't. This is just your skewed filter and how you perceive the world.

- I believe there is a difference between a child seeing, say, a nude painting and seeing, say ... a "Penthouse" magazine. The first one is nudity and the second one is lewd. Turning the tables around, let me ask the sheep - If its ok for a 13 yr to read Penthouse ... Why is not ok for a 4 yr old to read it ? What age is appropriate ? The 'Shepherd' sure would like to know so they can figure out where next to move that proverbial envelop.
Penthouse is a pretty rough comparison, considering all the golden shower type stuff they're into now. I wouldn't want to look through a Penthouse at 30. If you don't know the developmental difference between a 4 year old and a 13 year old, your kid is in for a rough go of it.

Ok ... so why did I ask the original question ? All I wanted to know was if the book had any sexual material in it. Some of you were very gracious with your in-context response. Some even suggested other books I should consider. I sincerely appreciate that.

Its been 'enlightening' in the most unexpected way :)

Thank you //
Filtering some media is fine, although there are really no books that need censoring. For that matter, cable doesn't really have anything foul enough on to warrant inspection either. The internet on the other hand is a wretched hive of scum and villainy.


In a certain way, I'm sure you expected people to act like that when you posed the original question. In the same way that your atheist and sheep diatribes came out so quickly, to elicit a response.
 

rockyct

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2001
6,656
32
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Wow, no family sits down to watch the Bachelor or the Jersey Shore. Besides, most of the stuff in the 8-10 network block only has sexual innuendos which will go over his head if he doesn't get them. I was pretty well sheltered when I was 13 but I allowed myself to be sheltered. However, whatever sex is in the Clancy, Crichton, and Koontz books (which there is some) is far less than what your kid has been exposed to from his friends and the internet.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,397
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I have no problem with how the OP is trying to raise his kid(s). "Protecting" your kids is what parents are supposed to do. Will it have the desired effect? I dunno, but IMO, it's not bad parenting.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
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Wow, no family sits down to watch the Bachelor or the Jersey Shore. Besides, most of the stuff in the 8-10 network block only has sexual innuendos which will go over his head if he doesn't get them. I was pretty well sheltered when I was 13 but I allowed myself to be sheltered. However, whatever sex is in the Clancy, Crichton, and Koontz books (which there is some) is far less than what your kid has been exposed to from his friends and the internet.

This kid probably doesn't know about the internet thanks to his overprotective dad.
 

Kelemvor

Lifer
May 23, 2002
16,928
8
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Go to your local library and check some things out. Can always read them first and then pass them along.

Personally I never read anything until I was introduced to sci-fantasy books. I recently sold my 200+ book collection of Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, etc. Those books are great because they get your imagination going like crazy. I never really was interested in reading mystery books or things like that. I'd rather see those in movie form.