Something to think about: It's impossible not to eat meat. Most produce has a certain amount of insect parts. If you search online, you can find insect parts/volume ratings of orange juice for example.
So then maybe people don't eat for moral reasons....but what exactly makes a fish more valuable than an insect in terms of philosophy or right to life?
So then maybe people don't eat for moral reasons....but what exactly makes a fish more valuable than an insect in terms of philosophy or right to life?
eits
Lifer
my bad. i misspoke. i meant to say that it's hard to get the right concentrations in normal vegan diets.
high levels of vitamin e inhibits collagen synthesis, which promotes bad skin and bad healing/clotting. it also builds up and clogs pores, which also promotes bad skin.
Meat is delicious. I will eat as many animals as financially possible. They taste great, and you get bigger from eating them.
My bro is vegan but I don't like the fact that his change was an abrupt one strung in by watching PETA's awful animal cruelty videos... He had an emotional response at first but now an intellectual one...
He seems to be doing fine and has actually gained a few pounds (5). SO he's 5'8 and 140 lbs. I tell him that a part of his cultural identity died cos he doesn't eat carne asada or all the other delicious foods that we hispanics eat.
Doesn't seem to hurt -- however, like most vegans, he's obsessed with flax (weed) foods as well as organic food. He eats hemp waffles, hemp bread, hemp butter, etc, etc. Kinda funny he says that Soy is so Passe'
He seems to be doing fine and has actually gained a few pounds (5). SO he's 5'8 and 140 lbs. I tell him that a part of his cultural identity died cos he doesn't eat carne asada or all the other delicious foods that we hispanics eat.
Doesn't seem to hurt -- however, like most vegans, he's obsessed with flax (weed) foods as well as organic food. He eats hemp waffles, hemp bread, hemp butter, etc, etc. Kinda funny he says that Soy is so Passe'
Umm, order of life? A fish is further up the development scale than an insect. Birds are further yet, and mammals are pretty much at the top. Most people (at least in this country) draw the line right before primates. Some people are willing to eat primates, and some are even willing to eat other humans. Vegans/vegetarians draw the line much further down.
But that's beside the point: Vegans/vegetarians aren't choosing to eat that insect, and I'm sure most of them would prefer 100% insect-free food. Choice, and demand, make up a big part of their philosophies for the most part.
A friend of mine has a pretty good stance on it...he doesn't eat meat, due to his beliefs on animal cruelty. However, if someone's going to throw away food, he'll eat meat, because he's not putting any additional demand on the meat industry (and thus, not causing any additional cruelty), but is preventing waste. I tried posing him a bunch of hypothetical questions, but he always had an answer that was both pragmatic and consistent with his stance.
Yes, I understand they draw the line lower, but I think it's irrational to believe that fish have any more a right to life than insects. They both act on basic instinct, and little more.
And don't evolionist scientists think fish were first? Is it because fish are bigger?
And while they may not want to eat the insects, insects will be killed inevitably in the process of growing the food.
eits
Lifer
Person A eats only meat.
Person B eats only vegetables.
Person B is going to be much healthier, with less fat, less heat trouble, less cholesterol and live far longer.
Most people consume both meat AND veggies, but you'd be a fool to think that meat is required in a healthy diet. Before the idiots start screaming "PROTEIN!!" let me add that the average North American eats 20 times the protien they actually need - which is actually doing much more harm than good.
Even the burger chains were bowing to the Atkins no-carb madness. Now THERE's stupid for you. No fruits or grains? Nothing but meat? No wonder it was popular. [*snork*]
Again, a plate of pasta is far healthier than a plate of meat.
Person B eats only vegetables.
Person B is going to be much healthier, with less fat, less heat trouble, less cholesterol and live far longer.
Most people consume both meat AND veggies, but you'd be a fool to think that meat is required in a healthy diet. Before the idiots start screaming "PROTEIN!!" let me add that the average North American eats 20 times the protien they actually need - which is actually doing much more harm than good.
Even the burger chains were bowing to the Atkins no-carb madness. Now THERE's stupid for you. No fruits or grains? Nothing but meat? No wonder it was popular. [*snork*]
Again, a plate of pasta is far healthier than a plate of meat.
Bateluer
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2001
- 27,730
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I'm not reading this entire thread, but I will say that both Vegatarian and meat eating diets can be healthy. However, many meats in the Western hemisphere are prepared to taste good, not necessarily to be healthy meals. Humans, by nature, are omnivores, are bodily systems evolved(or were designed, depends on your PoV) to eat meat and plants.
A proper diet of healthy, well prepared meat, and plants is essential to a proper diet.
It should be noted that just becuase you bought a Veggie burger of BK or MCDs, it doesn't mean its a healthy meal. Those are still loaded with additives and such.
A proper diet of healthy, well prepared meat, and plants is essential to a proper diet.
It should be noted that just becuase you bought a Veggie burger of BK or MCDs, it doesn't mean its a healthy meal. Those are still loaded with additives and such.
Now while I agree a pure vegetarian diet is good, but a pure meat cannot be:
Because I eat both, I can eat just as healthy as a vegetarian, and add:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=104
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=116
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=141
And these sources of protein are high quality and don't give me phytoestrogens or allergic reactions, like soy does. Since I'm building mass right now, that's very important. Therefore, for me, my diet is better than vegetarian.
Please provide a link about the 20x protein.
"Is being a Vegan unnatural?"
Is doing anything unnatural? You're a resident of the natural world right? Just because we may exist at the top of the natural order doesn't mean we've transcended nature. I say if you choose to do something that doesn't kill you or render you sterile, then you're acting appropriately as a denizen of nature. That said I don't think being a vegan makes all that much sense. The effort that vegans go through to ensure proper nutrition without meat could more effectively be applied to preparing meat in a nutritious fashion. I say don't pick your diet based on whether the food comes from an animal or plant, but specifically for its content and how effectively it can fulfill the needs of your body (oh and work flavor in there somewhere too).
Is doing anything unnatural? You're a resident of the natural world right? Just because we may exist at the top of the natural order doesn't mean we've transcended nature. I say if you choose to do something that doesn't kill you or render you sterile, then you're acting appropriately as a denizen of nature. That said I don't think being a vegan makes all that much sense. The effort that vegans go through to ensure proper nutrition without meat could more effectively be applied to preparing meat in a nutritious fashion. I say don't pick your diet based on whether the food comes from an animal or plant, but specifically for its content and how effectively it can fulfill the needs of your body (oh and work flavor in there somewhere too).
Originally posted by: MisterJackson
Originally posted by: Fraggable
Originally posted by: athithi
Virtually every single post in this thread before mine is about how vegetarianism is bad and meat-eating is good and yet each one of you is comlaining that vegetarianism is being thrust down your throatsThis is quite typical of a guilt-ridden, defensive mind-set. To me, the concept of cutting up an animal and gnawing on flesh, muscle, tissue, veins, nerves, blood, bones and cartilage is disgusting. I get my fill from vegetarian meals every single day. It is quite ignorant to think that only salads and tofu constitute a vegetarian meal. But if you want to eat meat and you are happy and healthy and do not bother me in any way, I couldn't care less about what you eat. Your offensive defense only reveals your discomfort about your own eating habits. If you like meat don't feel guilty about it - meat-based diets are just fine (of course, anything in excess is bad). It's ok to enjoy your burger and not worry about being judged by vegetarians.
Now I'm a vegetarian :Q
Here's a thought: The Bible says exactly what we're supposed to eat in the NT: anything!! (except maybe others..) In the OT they weren't supposed to eat 'unclean' meat, but that's all changed now. There's nothing morally wrong with eating meat IMO.
Everyone I've met that's a vegetarian gives the same reason as athithi. It disgusts them. That's understandable to me, I mean if I were a cook or butcher I would probly be a vegetarian too. I have an aunt who's a veterinarian and she'll never eat meat again because of what she sees every day. I frequently consider not eating meat nearly as often just because it generally results in a healthier lifestyle.
Ahhh! You had to go and bring the bible into this now didn't you! This thread was doomed before, but it's sure to go to hell now!......j/k!
I agree with your butcher comment. Most of us meat eaters don't think twice because we go out and get a finished product that we did not have to hunt, kill, clean, and cook. I think if we did have to do that you'd see less meat eaters.
Well I hunt. I clean what I hunt (and fish) and I eat it. Its good and it does not discust me. I love meat and there are good vegetables too. fruit is good. Hell, its all good! (except tofu... bleh!)
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: athithi
Virtually every single post in this thread before mine is about how vegetarianism is bad and meat-eating is good and yet each one of you is comlaining that vegetarianism is being thrust down your throats
Haha, guilty. Nice. Do you feel guilty for being white? Male? American? Human at all? For driving a car? Making more than $15k a year? Should you? Neither do I, and I don't feel guilty for eating meat either. This is just a lame attempt to "fight back" against us meat-eaters by casting the problem on us.
I'm not complaining about militant veggies...I've met so few of them. What you fail to realize is that this is the internet, where people come across with more forceful opinions than they actually share in real life. So, a couple people come into this thread who've encountered militant vegans, and complain about it. Therefore, I suppose, making us all guilt-ridden shells of humans.
To me, the concept of cutting up an animal and gnawing on muscle, flesh, and tissue (who eats the other stuff?), after cooking them of course, is delicious and perfectly natural.
Jagec, do you understand the irony of a thread where meat-eaters complain about militant vegetarians while proclaiming how great meat-eating is and how stupid vegetarianism is? If you do not see the irony, that's ok too. That level of comprehension would be par for ATOT.
Mwilding:
Let me get this straight - IF you wanted to be an ass, you would have written a self-righteous post of indignant drivel like the one I quoted above, right? Come to think of it, why did you want to be an ass in the first place?
BTW,
1. This is ATOT
2. This is a thread about Veganism
3. ATOT will mock Veganism (in a theatrical display of ignorance where some will claim that ATOT = Militant Meat-eaters amongst other such gems of wisdom)
4. Veganists will get all huffy about it (some of whom will make a sensible response about how meat-eaters don't have to feel judged by vegetarians)
5. ATOT will call them on their huffiness (due to the unavailability of a dictionary at hand)
6. Fellow Vegans will come to their defense
7. Flame war will ensue (because when confronted with the ignorance of their stance, ATOT militant meat-eaters will revert to hurling larger and larger lumps of ignorance against the opposition in the hope that vegetarians will walk away in disgust)
Now that just sounds like you trying to be an @sshole. Who gives a flying fvck what people eat. I hate how people judge people on what they eat. I especially hate vegetarians who say meat is discusting and think its bad for you or something. They just try to impose thier skewed ideas on everyone
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