Ok, i didnt really mean it was an actual response to creationism, as in "hey guys we need something to counter those priests with!" I used that phrasing more for effect, and then the resulting dozen posts have been all about how i was wrong to do that. :/
Originally posted by: Vic
WTF
Sorry, but science has a workable theory based on observation of evidence that tells us how galaxies were created. Alien fecal matter not required.
And that same workable theory based on observation requires no god. God and Alien Fecal matter are equally likely/unlikely.
Originally posted by: Vic
WTF
Sorry, but science has a workable theory based on observation of evidence that tells us how galaxies were created. Alien fecal matter not required.
God is not required for anything that has happened so far.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
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Originally posted by: Turin39789
Originally posted by: Vic
WTF
Sorry, but science has a workable theory based on observation of evidence that tells us how galaxies were created. Alien fecal matter not required.
And that same workable theory based on observation requires no god. God and Alien Fecal matter are equally likely/unlikely.
Did you even read my post which you replied to (and quoted) above?
To an agnostic, the concept of "God" represents that of Absolute Truth, which cannot be known. Likelihood has sh!t to do with it.
so i am an athiest, that means i dont believe in a higher power / god
so how the fesk can that be a religion you idiot
and stop with the bloody stoopid post and get out and read something useful or get a girlfriend
so how the fesk can that be a religion you idiot
and stop with the bloody stoopid post and get out and read something useful or get a girlfriend
Read The Dragon In My Garage by Carl Sagan too Text. I think its important to make the distinction that we're not just talking about anything, were dealing with a supernatural claim that someone has reportedly witnessed or sensed.
If I were to make a claim that some previously unknown insect exists in the amazon rain forest but no-one has ever seen it; then a weak agnostic position with regards to its existence would be reasonable. Now if I were to claim the insect is invisible and can teleport from tree to tree you might change your conclusion right?
Another thing I think we should address is how I know that the insect exists if it is invisible. Imagine if I told you I'd never even been to the amazon and seen it, but that it revealed itself to me through some telepathic means. Are you still ok with the idea that its just as much a leap of faith to reject my claim as it is to believe me? In such a case it is reasonable to reject the claim until any evidence is presented.
I know Vic and others will say this is a straw man and misses the point..., because this assumes the personal god definition of an old man with a beard sitting on a throne in heaven revealing himself to prophets. But what is God? Where does the concept of God come from? It comes from the prophets who somehow sensed a god and created their respective religions.
Its convenient for the agnostic position to ignore the common perception of a personal god that nearly all theists use [and atheists reject] and replace it with some abstract notion of god. However isn't it somewhat irrelevant in a practical sense in the atheist vs theist debate?
in my books, if you beleive in something that isnt proven and get emotionally upset when someone starts talking crap about your beleives...thats religious...
fact: you cant prove there is a god
fact: you cant prove there isnt a god
agnosticism FTFW
fact: you cant prove there is a god
fact: you cant prove there isnt a god
agnosticism FTFW
That isn't something no one knows anything about so it isn't a very good analogy.
Personally, I wouldn't be interested in your declaration for it's content, I would be more interested in why you made such a declaration.
And I haven't claimed any exclusion for myself of always being rational which is implied in your supposition. What I try to do though is understand when I believe, or don't believe, something that is based on faith, not to claim it is based on facts, and subsequently think it is superior to someone else's belief.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,795
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disbelief is not religion. else not believing the world is flat, or that santa is real would be a religion. it would become absurd, you would have to believe in everything in order to escape that trap, but then you'd be religious anyways, so its an absurd way of thinking.
and you can be absurd and pretend there are atheists that just "believe" that there is no god so strongly you consider it a religion. i've never seen one though. they just ask for what is necessary, extraordinary proof for extraordinary claims.
and you can be absurd and pretend there are atheists that just "believe" that there is no god so strongly you consider it a religion. i've never seen one though. they just ask for what is necessary, extraordinary proof for extraordinary claims.
What do you call it when someone looks for affirmation for their position from others, attend conferences, anoint spokespersons, and participate in the ridicule of people with a different position ?
Doesn't apply to all atheists, but then the same sort of phenomena doesn't apply to all theists either. For example I believe I've read that Lincoln and some of the founding fathers rejected religion, but considered themselves theists.
The difference between a christian and an atheist is the number of gods they choose not to believe in - and it is a difference of just one god. so please do acknowledge how "irrational" all christians are for not believing in Zeus, the native Australian Aboriginial sprits, ancient roman and greek gods, etc. :roll:
You can't think clearly or sensibly or rationally. It is a problem that many conservatives have, sadly. This topic really separates the men from the boys in terms of clarity of thought.
Like said, "some" people here are just trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Atheism is not a religion, period. And entertaining the notion is just a waste of time.
strawman much? where is the atheist who claims, with absolute certainly, that a particular god or gods do not exist? note the title of one of Richard Dawkin's recent blogs: "Why there is almost certainly no god". It's all about probabilties. I think there is a good chance there are snails living in my garden, because I see snail trails on the concrete path. OTOH I think there is next to no chance there are magical fairies living in my garden. I have seen no hint fairies exist let alone are living in my garden. You think my assessment that it is improbable that there are fairies living in my garden is "irrational"..? :roll:
actually, what psychology has found is that certain personality types are more susceptible to so-called "magical thinking" - these are the people more likely to fall victim to religious ideology.
strawman much? where is the atheist who claims, with absolute certainly, that a particular god or gods do not exist? note the title of one of Richard Dawkin's recent blogs: "Why there is almost certainly no god". It's all about probabilties. I think there is a good chance there are snails living in my garden, because I see snail trails on the concrete path. OTOH I think there is next to no chance there are magical fairies living in my garden. I have seen no hint fairies exist let alone are living in my garden. You think my assessment that it is improbable that there are fairies living in my garden is "irrational"..? :roll:
[/quote]
Is there dark energy in your garden ?
I'll defer to a physicist on that. He can explain to me the various experimental observations that provide support for the existence of dark energy.
Huh?
If you can't prove something, then how can you believe it exists?
Hey, I have a purple space alient sitting next to me right now. You can't see it because it's invisible. If you don't believe me, you're worse off than the guy who does believe me.
No.
Atheism is an atrifact, a construction of the rational mind of man.
Real spirituality comes from higher places than the mind of man, as true inspiration, intuition. META physical and META the ordinaruy human mind.
Atheism is an atrifact, a construction of the rational mind of man.
Real spirituality comes from higher places than the mind of man, as true inspiration, intuition. META physical and META the ordinaruy human mind.
Cerpin Taxt
Lifer
- Feb 23, 2005
- 11,940
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Originally posted by: Journer
in my books, if you beleive in something that isnt proven and get emotionally upset when someone starts talking crap about your beleives...thats religious...
fact: you cant prove there is a god
fact: you cant prove there isnt a god
agnosticism FTFW
You don't have to believe that god can be proven not to exist in order to be an atheist. You don't have to believe that god doesn't exist. You only must disbelieve that god does exist.
If that confuses you, I suggest you read the last two sentences and contemplate the very subtle yet important distinction between them.
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