Is AMD 960K Athlon Excavator likely to beat intel 2500K sandy bridge?

[Justinbaileyman]

Well said and with that I can totally agree with you..

 

[chrisjames61]

Considering how much AMD is hurting for cash, they'll likely charge more if it performs better, rather than forcing Intel to lower their prices to compete.

$190 7850K's, anyone?

That is how capitalism works. You want products with good margins and make the company money. Of course you charge more for something if it is better. DUH! If AMD's processors were competitive with Intel's offerings they would charge accordingly. As they should.

 

[chrisjames61]

I'd like to see you prove that.. Also I see you are stalking me from other forums and from other sites, think I will have to have a word with an admin.
And for your info I am sure what was said in the other forum was my 760K at 5Ghz was faster then a "STOCK" "FIRST" "GEN" "i5" "SOCKET" "1366"...... If its not prove me wrong. I dont care what you have to spout around kid show me the anandtech benches then come back and post some more with your foolishness of twisting my words.Not that this has anything at all to do with this thread.Sorry to the op just wanted to get this out.

You are less than truthful pal. And no one is stalking you goofball. I just happen to remember your far out posts. You are the one who backtracked after you were called out for being full of it.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

I never back tracked anything "PAL" and your quite the liar following me around trying to start trouble at every site that I post at. I have reported you at every site now so we'll just wait and see what happens. Hopefully you'll get banned here just like in all the other forums you've flamed and trolled me at.Good day..

 

[john5220]

What exactly is AMD having for the FM2+ socket after Excavator?

 

[svenge]

What exactly is AMD having for the FM2+ socket after Excavator?

Chapter 11 bankruptcy?

 

[john5220]

why does AMD have to compete with Phenom series?

what I mean is phenom II from many many years ago are arguably equal or better than their current Vishera heck its even faster than steamroller.

aren't they wasting time building new CPUs since they aren't doing any better?

And what happens when AMD goes out of business? whats going to happen to the prices of intel CPU and future innovation?

is intel going to waste money and time innovating if there is no competition?

 

[Arachnotronic]

why does AMD have to compete with Phenom series?

what I mean is phenom II from many many years ago are arguably equal or better than their current Vishera heck its even faster than steamroller.

aren't they wasting time building new CPUs since they aren't doing any better?

And what happens when AMD goes out of business? whats going to happen to the prices of intel CPU and future innovation?

is intel going to waste money and time innovating if there is no competition?

If Intel prices CPUs too high, nobody would buy them. If Intel stops innovating, nobody would upgrade.

If AMD died tomorrow, you'd see very little change in how Intel runs things.

 

[tential]

why does AMD have to compete with Phenom series?

what I mean is phenom II from many many years ago are arguably equal or better than their current Vishera heck its even faster than steamroller.

aren't they wasting time building new CPUs since they aren't doing any better?

And what happens when AMD goes out of business? whats going to happen to the prices of intel CPU and future innovation?

is intel going to waste money and time innovating if there is no competition?

Government mandated break up?
Not saying it's likely but could happen. I can't cite a case within the last 10 years though. Googling it seems to bring up this recent abortion ruling for some reason. Last one I found was 2001 or so and I'm not even sure if that was Government mandated.

AMD is in a bad spot, but their products still do sell if priced right. If they can make a breakthrough in the mobile sector and then have a design that scales back up to desktop, that's their best bet to me.

 

[CHADBOGA]

If Intel prices CPUs too high, nobody would buy them. If Intel stops innovating, nobody would upgrade.

If AMD died tomorrow, you'd see very little change in how Intel runs things.

My wild ar## guess(WAG) is that over a 12 to 24 month period, we would see Intel's consumer desktop CPU's increase by approx 20% and/or an increase of CPU offerings from the ATOM line, replacing the CORE line.

Something like an i5 4690K would still be affordable, but would annoyingly cost more.

 

[john5220]

I wonder what Microsoft will do about such a situation if AMD goes bankrupt?

Will they race to push windows 10 onto ARM and port as many apps onto ARM as possible? what would game companies do now with a CPU monopoly? will they push for a quick adaptation of ARM and bring Qualcomm into desktop arena? They have half the money of Intel and 10 times that of AMD

Qualcomm might be the only hope against intel. Infact intel cannot seem to make a dent into ARM against qualcomm. Its almost like intel suddenly becomes AMD when trying to compete with Qualcomm. Its sort of scary when you consider the massive amount of money intel has.

I don't trust a monopoly. I am not sure I want to live to see intel become a monopoly.

 

[ShintaiDK]

My wild ar## guess(WAG) is that over a 12 to 24 month period, we would see Intel's consumer desktop CPU's increase by approx 20% and/or an increase of CPU offerings from the ATOM line, replacing the CORE line.

Something like an i5 4690K would still be affordable, but would annoyingly cost more.

You would more likely see a small price cut and a bigger usage of core uarchs. You wont see any price increase beyond the option of inflation based. We are in a situation where competition is a more a problem than a solution. And we been so for many years.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I wonder what Microsoft will do about such a situation if AMD goes bankrupt?

Will they race to push windows 10 onto ARM and port as many apps onto ARM as possible? what would game companies do now with a CPU monopoly? will they push for a quick adaptation of ARM and bring Qualcomm into desktop arena? They have half the money of Intel and 10 times that of AMD

Qualcomm might be the only hope against intel. Infact intel cannot seem to make a dent into ARM against qualcomm. Its almost like intel suddenly becomes AMD when trying to compete with Qualcomm. Its sort of scary when you consider the massive amount of money intel has.

I don't trust a monopoly. I am not sure I want to live to see intel become a monopoly.

MS doesnt care. They sell OS/Apps, not CPUs.

And its certain the CPU endgame will be between Qualcomm and Intel. Everyone else dont stand a chance. However as fabless, Qualcomm will most likely be the loser as well.

 

[pw257008]

You would more likely see a small price cut and a bigger usage of core uarchs. You wont see any price increase beyond the option of inflation based. We are in a situation where competition is a more a problem than a solution. And we been so for many years.

Why would we see lower prices and higher usage of core chips?

Not to mention, I see no reason Intel would increase the use of core chips in cheap laptops. Why would the fall of AMD cause Intel to change its tablet chips in laptops strategy?

 

[NTMBK]

MS doesnt care. They sell OS/Apps, not CPUs.

Of course MS care. Their remarkably good long-term compatibility and support is the foundation of their success. As such their fate is closely linked to the fate of the x86 market.

 

[john5220]

Is it possible for Obama to use his powers for something useful and force a X86 license for Qualcomm?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Why would we see lower prices and higher usage of core chips?

Not to mention, I see no reason Intel would increase the use of core chips in cheap laptops. Why would the fall of AMD cause Intel to change its tablet chips in laptops strategy?

Because of higher volume and margins for maximum profit. Same reason why Intel wont raise prices.

We talked about desktop.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Is it possible for Obama to use his powers for something useful and force a X86 license for Qualcomm?

Why would Qualcomm want to make x86 chips? Even if imagine for the sake of it, that Qualcomm got an x86 license today and was willing to invest everything in it. They could spend the first 10B$ and 4-5 years development before the first product and get what? AMD sized revenue and no profit?

Its deeply illusional to think companies sit in line to make x86 chips. There is a reason why the other 20 or so companies left x86. The market is simply too small for multiple companies. And cost keep going up. And with increased cost you need increased volume/revenue. How would you divide that? Why do you think Intel is spending billions to get into tablet and phones? Because the volume in laptop/server/desktop is big enough to offset the increasing R&D costs?

The only possible "competition" you could get in terms of x86 would be to make some government company and fill it with taxdollars. But even then you just destroy a private company and make it a government one. Then its much easier just to nationalize Intel from the start.

 

[Idontcare]

Is it possible for Obama to use his powers for something useful and force a X86 license for Qualcomm?

Given the number of large and well established companies that do/did have an x86 license but they bowed out of trying to field products that compete with Intel...it would appear that the business considerations that would go into Qualcomm's decision to dive into x86 would extend beyond them merely having the option of acquiring an x86 license.

For academic argument sake, Let's consider a realistic timeline coupled with an overly optimistic licensing agreement. Intel open-sources 100% of their x86 related patents, free-for-all unrestricted licensing for everyone.

Now comes the realistic timeline, because you can shortchange that part of reality no matter how much money (realistically speaking) you throw at a project...any company that chooses to jump into x86 today (at no cost barrier or IP barrier thanks to our absurdly optimistic open-source scenario laid out above) is still looking at a minimum of 1 year, and more realistically a 2 year process of simply identifying, hiring, and bringing up to speed the design engineers necessary to launch an x86 SoC project.

And then you have a minimum 3 year (for a seasoned and well-entrenched x86 design team) but more realistically a 4-5 year design cycle for this green-team's first x86 design.

So now you have a timeline for Qualcomm that says best case rosy scenario is they are looking to field an x86 based SoC in 4yrs (110% of all stars aligned) or more realistic case being 6yrs.

What process node would they be targeting this for production in 4yrs or 6 yrs? Where will the competition, which won't be sitting still in terms of both design and process capability, be in 4yrs or 6yrs?

I was at Texas Instruments, working on our x86 processors, with all the wind blowing to our backs (we had successful 386 and 486 designs, and inhouse process node tech) to keep going in competing with Intel and the above timeline reality in terms of what it would take to create a Pentium-class CPU is what compelled management at TI to decide it would simply be a bad business decision to throw money into developing an x86 product that would compete with Intel, so we went into ARM projects instead.

Given that Qualcomm is a well run company, which suggests their decision makers are well versed in making astute business decisions, I don't foresee them ever making the decision to throw billions of dollars and years of project development time into creating a me-too x86 competitor chip.

AMD has shown the world what that risk/reward profile looks like, and it doesn't speak to there being a whole lot of reward, just a whole lot of risk.

edit: just saw ShintaiDK posted up the same thing before I hit the submit button, so make my post a +1 to his

 

[SunburstLP]

Thanks Shintai for making an excellent point. And huge thanks to IDC for laying it out in more detail with an example. Things actually make more sense and it explains why Nvidia hasn't jumped in the pool. It also explains why some more knowledgeable posters seem to be annoyed with the question of why doesn't NV make x86 chips. My mind isn't necessarily blown, however, it's had a great stretch. Thanks guys.

 

[Enigmoid]

Thanks Shintai for making an excellent point. And huge thanks to IDC for laying it out in more detail with an example. Things actually make more sense and it explains why Nvidia hasn't jumped in the pool. It also explains why some more knowledgeable posters seem to be annoyed with the question of why doesn't NV make x86 chips. My mind isn't necessarily blown, however, it's had a great stretch. Thanks guys.

Nvidia CAN'T make x86 chips. That was part of their settlement with intel.

 

[SunburstLP]

Duly noted. Thank you.

 

[john5220]

Thanks IdontCare

I had no idea this is how things worked. I just taught because Qualcomm has half the money of intel and growing rapidly that being second richest after intel and vastly richer than AMD that they would be able to compete with intel.

Now that you explain it I can see why this isn't the case.

No wonder intel cannot compete with Qualcomm in smartphones and tablets.

However I fear dark days ahead if AMD ever goes bankrupt and decides to quit the X86 market like all the rest. Imagine what would happen if intel had a monopoly?

I also wonder how the world would have turned out if intel didn't use illegal mafia tactics and threats for companies not to buy AMD
Maybe the EU courts should have granted AMD a lot more than just a billion euros in damages?

what you guys think would be the outcome today if intel played fair instead of illegal and mafia?

After the whole Pentium D failure and getting beaten by Athlon X2 series I think intel saw AMD as a real threat and decided Mafia and threats was the only way to keep AMD down.

 

[Burpo]

Here we go again with "Illegal Mafia tactics"..
It's business. nothing more..
AMD used to win a few.. not so much anymore..
Why whine about it?

 

[burninatortech4]

Will Carrizo even have a FM2+ variant? It seems like so far they've only talked mobile versions.