Does anyone think that there could possibly be an agp card with sli-like speeds, something like Gigabyte's dual core with an agp bridge? If Agp hasnt been maxed out yet, what is the point of even getting an pci-x other than for sli?
Is AGP dead?
- Thread starter JerrycurlJerico
- Start date
For Nvidia, no they are going to use the bridge chips. Ati on the other hand have moved to PCI-E.
I just bought the Neo2, and I'm getting a Gainward 6800GT from the FS/T. Call me crazy, but that's kickass performance minus the price-gouging.
hell, there aren't even any solid, cost effective pci-e amd motherboards out yet...
agp will be quite viable for some time yet.
agp will be quite viable for some time yet.
Yes. It is disgusting. esp trying to find a PCIE 6800.
I've changed my position on this issue, after trying to upgrade myself.
high end PCIE cards are just too hard to get ahold of at MSRP (and I dont consider getting a card at msrp to be a good deal at all).. and ive actually been seeing the overpriced cards ($500-600 for a 68GT) drying up.
I prefer PCIE, but I'd go AGP right now myself.
I've waited this long FOR PCIE that I'm a little pissed about the availability. So I'm not upgrading unless I get PCIE..
but the OP did the right thing for now. I wouldnt feel bad.
Nvidia does have their bridge chips that go from PCIE->AGP as well as vice versa. So you are set from them at least.
But dont worry, SLI does not mean that they are goign to slow their cards down.
It just means as we get closer and closer to current technologies maximum speed (until the next breakthrough) it will be the only way to get more performance.. and a great way at that.
But 90% of the population wont be able to afford it, so they arent goign to slow the single cards way down or anything, if that was your worry.
They arent goign to slow down the 6800 Ultra, charge $300 instead of 500 and expect everyone to have SLI.
Some new motherboards are phasing out the parallel port. Some motherboards are down to 1 serial port instead of 2. Will AGP be gone soon? You bet it will... once most people have upgraded and the sale of AGP cards diminish... I would say give it about 2 to 3 years.
There is AGP on new systems... there is PCI on new systems... but the AGP systems are low performance cheap modest bang for the bux kind of computers. Once the PCIe boards come down in cost... then the big switch will happen more readily
Jeff
There is AGP on new systems... there is PCI on new systems... but the AGP systems are low performance cheap modest bang for the bux kind of computers. Once the PCIe boards come down in cost... then the big switch will happen more readily
Jeff
id agree with you, but i think 2-3 years is a little overshot.
i think -most- people, and OEMs (besides the cheap $500 computers) will all be using PCIE by the end of the year.
ATI is going all PCIE now (they have no bridge), and nvidia is supposed to have their geforce6 availability fixed by 2Q. it'll be a push for the end of the year, but thats my guestimate. The best one would probably be that "MOST" people (I'm referring to us) will be using it at LEAST by Christmas 2006.
Beyond that, those who dont have it by then are just really really slow upgraders and shouldnt really count in the equation of "people who upgrade their computers". I think if not by Christmas 2006, they are not "one of us", the enthusiasts.
Because thats a long way off.
But AGP might exist like PCI does today, but probably not. Prob go like VLB once PCIE is readily available and the NV50/R500 is out.
PCI video cards still exist because they are still putting PCI on every new motherboard, including teh Asus A8N SLI.. theres at least a purpose to their existence still. But PCIE completely overshadows AGP, and generally is not even on the boards unless its a hack job.
Thats just my opinion, I know most will agree with Jeffyboy's 2-3 guess.. but I just wanted to speak out that not everyone thinks it will take until 2008 for people to move to PCIE. I think they'll even be forced faster than that!
2 years absolute tops. it just seems like agp will be around longer because right now its popular and used, but things can (and will) change virtually overnight. once ATI/NVs complete line is out in PCIE is when most everyone here is like "OMG i need a NV50! (or whatever the model is coming out next)" then they'll have PCIE.
most ppl seem to get a new gen card, and skip a single generation tops.
i think -most- people, and OEMs (besides the cheap $500 computers) will all be using PCIE by the end of the year.
ATI is going all PCIE now (they have no bridge), and nvidia is supposed to have their geforce6 availability fixed by 2Q. it'll be a push for the end of the year, but thats my guestimate. The best one would probably be that "MOST" people (I'm referring to us) will be using it at LEAST by Christmas 2006.
Beyond that, those who dont have it by then are just really really slow upgraders and shouldnt really count in the equation of "people who upgrade their computers". I think if not by Christmas 2006, they are not "one of us", the enthusiasts.
Because thats a long way off.
But AGP might exist like PCI does today, but probably not. Prob go like VLB once PCIE is readily available and the NV50/R500 is out.
PCI video cards still exist because they are still putting PCI on every new motherboard, including teh Asus A8N SLI.. theres at least a purpose to their existence still. But PCIE completely overshadows AGP, and generally is not even on the boards unless its a hack job.
Thats just my opinion, I know most will agree with Jeffyboy's 2-3 guess.. but I just wanted to speak out that not everyone thinks it will take until 2008 for people to move to PCIE. I think they'll even be forced faster than that!
2 years absolute tops. it just seems like agp will be around longer because right now its popular and used, but things can (and will) change virtually overnight. once ATI/NVs complete line is out in PCIE is when most everyone here is like "OMG i need a NV50! (or whatever the model is coming out next)" then they'll have PCIE.
most ppl seem to get a new gen card, and skip a single generation tops.
that's false, and in fact, a case in point for some of ati's pr hypocracy (not that nvidia hasn't been guilty as well, but we're specifically talking within the context of ati here): ATI ? the only company brave enough to take both sides of every issue and defend them both
while ati stated that PCI-E bridge chips:
? Adds extra point of failure (multiple ASIC/dies/MCM packaging)
? Increases power-on delay
? Adds additional latency
? Adds additional cost
? Adds BIOS complexity
? Key PCI Express features lost when using a bridge:
? Power management
? Isochronous traffic (prioritization of different traffic types toprevent dropped audio/video frames etc.)
? Use of the full 4GB bandwidth (ie: video editing)
we've know for a few months now that ati is getting ready to use a bridge chip in the upcoming Rialto chip: ATI Preps PCI Express-to-AGP Bridge
at any rate, with such devices, i wouldn't be surprised that agp will still be prevelant for several years to come, especially when considering it will be that long before we really reap the benefits afforded by pci-e, as well as the fact consumers have historically been slow to adopt to new standards.
your correct. i had forgotten about that ati bridge news. i guess i forgot since all their cards now are either true pcie or true agp at the current time.
im not saying agp cards will be "gone", im saying most ppl will have moved to pcie by xmas 2006.. and therefore all the added benefits of the majority moving to the new platform by that date (or nearby) will be active.
ie. cheaper pcie parts (than agp equivalents), possibly only mid-low end parts produced in agp form, more readily available on pcie, and other benefits we might not know about yet (SLI for instance) or whatever else software developers will start taking advantage of on this new platform.
given the choice, and all things being equal, i'd certainly rather have pcie than agp, wouldnt you?
[not really a question]
i would consider PCI video cards to be "dead" by all practical standards. im saying by xmas '06, things will be the same for the agp market.. it will be limping on its last leg. only catering to those who are in similar situations to PCI video card users of today.
Jeez, a little bit of anti-ATI feeling over there at gamers-depot?
As for the comments about (AGP->PCIe) bridge chips:
True.
True, but probably by only an infinitesmal amount.
True, though probably not a hugely relevant amount.
True.
I'll take their word for it, but probably true.
True, though for gaming apps they aren't exactly "key".
Depends on the chip.
Probably. For gaming, this is not very important.
Assuming the guts of the card only knows how to speak AGP, this is true. Again, for gaming this is not really relevant.
ATI is developing a PCIe->AGP bridge chip, not the other way around (at least that's what the rumors say). All the arguments they presented above (other than the cost/reliability ones) are irrelevant when bridging a native PCIe card back to AGP. Other than developing separate lines of cards for AGP and PCIe (which is probably not feasable economically), this is the most logical way to still support AGP going forwards (since they want to focus on native PCIe cards).
AGP will still be around, for me im getting the most mature motherboards out now, which happen to be Neo2. And later on when the PCI-E motherboards have matured and have risen in performance will i get it then.
AGP wont be dead for a long time, but when that time comes it going to be like pci cards they dont make any pci card past radeon 9250 on geforce 5500 or 5700
What's important, guys.. is that even if AGP "died" today. My setup would still perform well. It's not like when it 'dies' AGP is forgotten and you can no longer use it. Just because it's slowly being phased out doesn't mean there's a reason to actually jump the gun, so long as you're sure of your performance.
of course.
are you assuring us, or yourself?
i think people think those who think things are going to happen differently (than AGP staying around forever for another 3 years like it is today), are saying its doom and gloom for agp.
agp is great, performs the same in games.
im simply stating that the move is going to happen faster than 3 years. more like 2 years max.
even then, agp will not be completely gone, and your agp systems will still perform the same. the only PCIE rigs that will crush your system is an SLI enabled one.
unless of course the next GF or Radeon is much faster than the current gen, and they do not produce them for AGP (or they cost alot more to get ahold of because the OEMs are all going PCIE).
the simple fact is that if you have a PCIE rig, you have little to worry about in the future. you have more to worry about with a agp rig. period. there is no debate there.
PCIE is not going anywhere but to become increasingly popular and widely used. AGP is fading and will fade faster in time.
These is the facts.
Originally posted by: housecat
of course.
are you assuring us, or yourself?
i think people think those who think things are going to happen differently (than AGP staying around forever for another 3 years like it is today), are saying its doom and gloom for agp.
agp is great, performs the same in games.
im simply stating that the move is going to happen faster than 3 years. more like 2 years max.
even then, agp will not be completely gone, and your agp systems will still perform the same. the only PCIE rigs that will crush your system is an SLI enabled one.
unless of course the next GF or Radeon is much faster than the current gen, and they do not produce them for AGP (or they cost alot more to get ahold of because the OEMs are all going PCIE).
the simple fact is that if you have a PCIE rig, you have little to worry about in the future. you have more to worry about with a agp rig. period. there is no debate there.
PCIE is not going anywhere but to become increasingly popular and widely used. AGP is fading and will fade faster in time.
These is the facts.
I'm assuring people who are feeling like I was about 4 days ago.
I agree. But by that point, I'll upgrade. AGP is still strong enough to compete in all areas. There's simply no advantage other than 'future-proof'ing at this point.
and i'd agree with you there too.
i was giong to upgrade now, but cant find a blasted pcie card anywhere thats worth a damn (for me, thats the 6800gt/ultra).
so im considering building a agp rig right now! but i'll prob only do that if i get a great deal on a agp card, like the microcenter $320 6800GTs. just cuz it does hurt a little to go "older tech" so i want some kind of a decent deal so i feel better about it!
i think people (not you) downplay PCIE sooo mcuh to make themselves feel better about their purchases.. right now you'd think AGP was going to be king for like 3 years and we all have nothing to worry about.. and i just dont buy that.
if i build a AGP system now (or someone else did), by the time AGP is gone i'll need a faster processor anyway. requiring a whole new system essentially.
im just really pissed that I CANT build a PCIE system with a 6800 series card, without getting completely screwed.
but ya, if I did build a PCIE system with a 3000+, i'd need a new CPU (cuz a 3000+ wont do a "NV55" justice for sure) anyway.. and who knows what that scene will look like at that time.
i was giong to upgrade now, but cant find a blasted pcie card anywhere thats worth a damn (for me, thats the 6800gt/ultra).
so im considering building a agp rig right now! but i'll prob only do that if i get a great deal on a agp card, like the microcenter $320 6800GTs. just cuz it does hurt a little to go "older tech" so i want some kind of a decent deal so i feel better about it!
i think people (not you) downplay PCIE sooo mcuh to make themselves feel better about their purchases.. right now you'd think AGP was going to be king for like 3 years and we all have nothing to worry about.. and i just dont buy that.
if i build a AGP system now (or someone else did), by the time AGP is gone i'll need a faster processor anyway. requiring a whole new system essentially.
im just really pissed that I CANT build a PCIE system with a 6800 series card, without getting completely screwed.
but ya, if I did build a PCIE system with a 3000+, i'd need a new CPU (cuz a 3000+ wont do a "NV55" justice for sure) anyway.. and who knows what that scene will look like at that time.
Malak
Lifer
- Dec 4, 2004
- 14,696
- 2
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AGP is not dead, but it certainly is dying. Soon you won't be able to get the best video cards because they won't be available in AGP. New agp card production will lag behind. Eventually the only people getting AGP cards are people who buy a Dell without checking to see if it has a pci-e slot, and they find all they have is AGP. Then everyone will laugh at them and be reminded of when PCI was dead.
In the manufactuer market, yes. AGP is dead. In the consumer (real) market it is alive and well. And will be up to DX 10 and possibly beyond.
the mere Existence of a technology in the market place is not synomous with it being alive(see serial ports, pci and AGP)
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