IRS: Cheapest Obama Care Plan for Family of Four will be $20,000/year

[themusgrat]

If you are bitching about the costs is it working in your opinion?

You're an idiot. Answer the question, if you even can.

 

[JimS]

The kicker is these people will simply pay or not pay the penalty and the system will collapse on itself. Nothing changed except for the few idiots who actually pay the unenforceable "tax" or attempt to buy this ludicriously expensive plan.

Wait a minute? How could somebody actually go about not paying this unconstitutional tax? I mean, other than not filing a tax return at all, which is the only way I can think of? Is it not true that the only way to avoid the tax is to submit proof of insurance with your tax return?

 

[abaez]

The problem is that we as a society are not willing to allow stupid, selfish or short-sighted people to pay for the consequences of their actions.

I would be perfectly fine with nobody having to have health insurance as long as they agreed that they were on their own. Break a bone? Get cancer? Too bad. Pay for it out of your own pocket. Can't afford it? Suffer or die.

But we don't want this as a society, so we pass laws allowing those who don't take responsibility to just go to the hospital and get "free" care paid for by everyone else. And as long as that keeps happening, yes, it is entirely reasonable to force people to pay for healthcare, and to do it in a way that is efficient.

Do people actually read what they type?

If you have someone who has never gone to a doctor their entire life calling up 911 when they are 67 because they are having a heart attack are you really advocating turning the ambulance around and letting them die? Or how about if they came into the emergency room? Let them die right there in the lobby after we run a check to see if they have ever paid? Jesus.

 

[wirednuts]

i have a feeling the penalty most single people making about $10 an hour full time will be nearly exactly the same amount they get in refunds per year. its like they saw those refunds as losing money so they found a way to keep them.

 

[wirednuts]

Wait a minute? How could somebody actually go about not paying this unconstitutional tax? I mean, other than not filing a tax return at all, which is the only way I can think of? Is it not true that the only way to avoid the tax is to submit proof of insurance with your tax return?

the real problem is this government insurance mandate will set the market value, no doubt about it. so whatever the actual numbers turn out to be will have a huge effect on a lot of people in this country. i think it will partially solve our runaway medical costs, but this is what we wanted. people freaked out about another "post office" option. public option, which would have been cheap insurance OPTION that nobody was forced to buy, but was there as a last resort insurance plan... welfare for everybody.

people are so fucking stupid in this country...

 

[Throckmorton]

Uhh yeah, that's what insurance costs. $5000 per person per year comes out to $416/month which is about right. You just think insurance is cheaper than that because your employer pays.

 

[Zebo]

^not quote. I have good insurance u can get a so called Cadillac plan and cost me $1333 mo for a family of 5. Some serious graft is happening here.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Its amazing how bad americans are at capitalism. Nationalize the healthcare, and I mean hospitals too, and you can more than cut the bill in half.

A weak government and lack of regulation is why you got expensive crappy healthcare, bad slow internet, shitty trash food and a financial sector that can put the entire country in danger.

 

[Olikan]

A weak government and lack of regulation is why you got expensive crappy healthcare, bad slow internet, shitty trash food and a financial sector that can put the entire world in danger.

fixed!

 

[ShintaiDK]

fixed!

Thanks :thumbsup:

 

[Cerb]

Its amazing how bad americans are at capitalism. Nationalize the healthcare, and I mean hospitals too, and you can more than cut the bill in half.

A weak government and lack of regulation is why you got expensive crappy healthcare, bad slow internet, shitty trash food and a financial sector that can put the entire country in danger.

I want to vehemently disagree with you. I really do. Usually, I manage it. But, you're 100% right, on every point, here.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Its amazing how bad americans are at capitalism. Nationalize the healthcare, and I mean hospitals too, and you can more than cut the bill in half.

A weak government and lack of regulation is why you got expensive crappy healthcare, bad slow internet, shitty trash food and a financial sector that can put the entire country in danger.

Yes, because "Full Auto" Joe Biden knows more about medicine than practitioners do. Nope.

 

[Bacstar]

I have a co-worker who is on a consulting basis and his youn family of four costs him $1700/month.

Now that w2's include with the DD code what employees' healthcare costs I bet many will be surprised to see they are already paying well into the teens.

Just noticed that when I did my taxes the other night. I'm single, and mine was already @ $19k+.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Yes, because "Full Auto" Joe Biden knows more about medicine than practitioners do. Nope.

Try compare US healthcare cost to the rest of the industrialized world. Then try track down where all the money gets wasted.

http://www.ifhp.com/documents/IFHPpricereport151210.pdf

 

[1prophet]

I wouldn't be surprised if the total cost of insurance for a family of 5 was, say $17,500-20,000. In most cases though the family will either get subsidized coverage from an employer or the government, so the out of pocket premium will be much lower.

That depends on their income, they could be making too much for government aid and too little to pay it on their own, and as for their employer he could make them part time (Walmart Style) or pay the penalty by dropping insurance if it comes out cheaper.

What I find most ironic of all this is how the democrats have taken on a republican like stance by claiming those who don't have health insurance do so because they don't want to not because of its high costs,

similar to republicans claiming all people on welfare/food stamps are lazy and don't want to work.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

If you have someone who has never gone to a doctor their entire life calling up 911 when they are 67 because they are having a heart attack are you really advocating turning the ambulance around and letting them die?

In general, if a 67-year-old person was able-bodied most of his life, and was given the choice to either pay into an insurance plan or go without and spend the money on something else, then he should have the choice of paying the full cost of any treatment out of pocket, or going without treatment.

If he dies, well, everyone has to die sometime. He made his choices.

In cases of true emergencies, where the patient is unstable, unconscious and at risk of dying, it's impractical and unreasonable to start asking for payment information. So yes, the 67-year-old having a heart attack should be treated. But then he should pay the full cost of that treatment.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I want to vehemently disagree with you. I really do. Usually, I manage it. But, you're 100% right, on every point, here.

Heh. I think that's a pretty easy post to disagree with.

Nationalizing the healthcare industry may be more efficient, but it is pretty much the exact opposite of capitalism.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Heh. I think that's a pretty easy post to disagree with.

Nationalizing the healthcare industry may be more efficient, but it is pretty much the exact opposite of capitalism.

Social market economy, mixed economy, welfare capitalism is still capitalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism#Types_of_capitalism

 

[sactoking]

That depends on their income, they could be making too much for government aid and too little to pay it on their own, and as for their employer he could make them part time (Walmart Style) or pay the penalty by dropping insurance if it comes out cheaper.

What I find most ironic of all this is how the democrats have taken on a republican like stance by claiming those who don't have health insurance do so because they don't want to not because of its high costs,

similar to republicans claiming all people on welfare/food stamps are lazy and don't want to work.

I doubt it. 400% FPL for a family of 5 is ~$108,000. That means that any family of 5 making less than $108,000 gets a premium tax credit; any family of 5 making more than that doesn't. If you make more than $108,000, is insurance really unaffordable? Plus, someone making more than $108,000 likely gets insurance from their employer. I mean, really, what part-time job pays >$108,000? What employee that can command six figures is willing to work for an employer that doesn't offer coverage?

 

[fskimospy]

I doubt it. 400% FPL for a family of 5 is ~$108,000. That means that any family of 5 making less than $108,000 gets a premium tax credit; any family of 5 making more than that doesn't. If you make more than $108,000, is insurance really unaffordable? Plus, someone making more than $108,000 likely gets insurance from their employer. I mean, really, what part-time job pays >$108,000? What employee that can command six figures is willing to work for an employer that doesn't offer coverage?

Yes, the Urban Institute estimated it at somewhere around 2% of the US population, but many are individuals that have pre-existing conditions which prevent them from being able to purchase insurance. Presumably quite a few of those 2% would jump at the opportunity to self-insure, making the actual number probably quite small.

 

[tcG]

Its amazing how bad americans are at capitalism. Nationalize the healthcare, and I mean hospitals too, and you can more than cut the bill in half.

A weak government and lack of regulation is why you got expensive crappy healthcare, bad slow internet, shitty trash food and a financial sector that can put the entire country in danger.

Healthcare has been one of the most regulated industries in the country and a little less than half of the countries GDP is used by the government for their purposes, so I don't see how the government is "weak" or there is a "lack of regulation" in the healthcare industry. See my previous post in this thread for some of the regulations we currently have that are anti-competitive, driving up the price and lowering quality.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Try compare US healthcare cost to the rest of the industrialized world. Then try track down where all the money gets wasted.

http://www.ifhp.com/documents/IFHPpricereport151210.pdf

Before Obamacare I called for a full and detailed analysis of the state of healthcare by a panel of experts who were in turn recommended by their peers for ability and outstanding character. This would have included providers, actuaries, health advocates, all aspects. The pro Obama people mostly (certainly not everyone) responded in a general pattern.
1) "You support the status quo" or sometimes "you want insurance companies to rip us off

2) You just hate Obama

3) We don't need a thorough analysis because we already know everything/it would take too long.

4) What about those Republicans!!

5) France/Japan/everyone else has great insurance. Just hand everything over to the government. They know everything.


In all cases the objections skirt my contention that work needs to be done by qualified people in an environment as free from politics as possible.

As a result we get a fair, complete, and honest assessment of where we stand.
A list of what benefits medicine and what impedes it. What changes should be made and the order of priority.

Several options for healthcare including the costs, advantages, and disadvantage of each.

Establishing a workable means for change without gutting the whole thing for partisan hay making.

An analysis of what can be done to make sure that we make regulation second to the needs of a population. Rural Idaho and inner city DC are completely different in almost all ways that matter.

Present a public record of all findings and recommendations along with considered and ecially written legal language to meet the goals of each proposal while minimizing unintended consequences and political maneuvering. Congress gets to see this not one second before us.

That is how to go about doing the job well.


That is the last thing the partisan and the ignorant want
.

Do you standwith them or those who want facts, understanding and clarity?

Where do you stand?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Social market economy, mixed economy, welfare capitalism is still capitalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism#Types_of_capitalism

You're talking about a government takeover of the industry. That is not any sort of capitalism, sorry.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Healthcare has been one of the most regulated industries in the country and a little less than half of the countries GDP is used by the government for their purposes, so I don't see how the government is "weak" or there is a "lack of regulation" in the healthcare industry. See my previous post in this thread for some of the regulations we currently have that are anti-competitive, driving up the price and lowering quality.

Let me ask you another way. Why do americans pay roughly twice as much for healthcare as others? Because you rank very low in terms of quality. So its not because its better.

So whats the reason, besides a very inefficient healthcare system in terms of performance/$.

Community hospitals alone in 2010 had a 52.9B$ profit.

When I see a chart like this, my alarm bells ring:

Or in terms of GDP if you wish:

 

[ShintaiDK]

Before Obamacare I called for a full and detailed analysis of the state of healthcare by a panel of experts who were in turn recommended by their peers for ability and outstanding character. This would have included providers, actuaries, health advocates, all aspects. The pro Obama people mostly (certainly not everyone) responded in a general pattern.
1) "You support the status quo" or sometimes "you want insurance companies to rip us off

2) You just hate Obama

3) We don't need a thorough analysis because we already know everything/it would take too long.

4) What about those Republicans!!

5) France/Japan/everyone else has great insurance. Just hand everything over to the government. They know everything.


In all cases the objections skirt my contention that work needs to be done by qualified people in an environment as free from politics as possible.

As a result we get a fair, complete, and honest assessment of where we stand.
A list of what benefits medicine and what impedes it. What changes should be made and the order of priority.

Several options for healthcare including the costs, advantages, and disadvantage of each.

Establishing a workable means for change without gutting the whole thing for partisan hay making.

An analysis of what can be done to make sure that we make regulation second to the needs of a population. Rural Idaho and inner city DC are completely different in almost all ways that matter.

Present a public record of all findings and recommendations along with considered and ecially written legal language to meet the goals of each proposal while minimizing unintended consequences and political maneuvering. Congress gets to see this not one second before us.

That is how to go about doing the job well.


That is the last thing the partisan and the ignorant want
.

Do you standwith them or those who want facts, understanding and clarity?

Where do you stand?

Whats your actual point? Obama just wanted universal healthcare, thats simply just a tiny step in the right direction. But its nothing more than a step forward in a marathon race.

Rome wasnt build in one day.