IRS: Cheapest Obama Care Plan for Family of Four will be $20,000/year

[Ausm]

What free market?

You need to ask?

 

[Genx87]

You need to ask?

I just asked. I want to hear your opinion on the free market healthcare we have in this country.

 

[Ausm]

I just asked. I want to hear your opinion on the free market healthcare we have in this country.

If you are bitching about the costs is it working in your opinion?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

It's not an "ideal" free market, but it's a heck of a more free market than is the case in any other developed country.

 

[Ausm]

It's not an "ideal" free market, but it's a heck of a more free market than is the case in any other developed country.

Isn't the premise of a "Free Market" supposedly to create an atmosphere of cost control due to competition in those Markets?

 

[Genx87]

If you are bitching about the costs is it working in your opinion?

Im not bitching about anything. You said free market are working in the health care industry. I am genuinely interested in hearing your thoughts about this vast free market healthcare system we have in this country.

 

[Matt1970]

Yes, I agree. Preventing unforeseen medical expenses from destroying people's credit rating will definitely help the economy.

Forcing people to spend thousands they couldn't afford to begin with is really going to help.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Isn't the premise of a "Free Market" supposedly to create an atmosphere of cost control due to competition in those Markets?

Yes. But the health care market before the ACA was hardly "free".

For a variety of reasons, health care is not a product that works well in a free market environment. Which is why every developed country except ours uses a different system.

 

[Darwin333]

Ooh, know what's even better? The OP is complaining that the poor will just use the emergency room and skip out on the bill. Since the penalty basically only serves to keep people from doing just that... his real complaint is that he would like to keep going to the ER and skipping out on the bill but now he can't.

Correct me if I am wrong but per the new rules can't you just wait until you are sick and in need of health insurance to purchase it now?

 

[Ausm]

Im not bitching about anything. You said free market are working in the health care industry. I am genuinely interested in hearing your thoughts about this vast free market healthcare system we have in this country.

How large do you think it is?

 

[Ausm]

Yes. But the health care market before the ACA was hardly "free".

For a variety of reasons, health care is not a product that works well in a free market environment. Which is why every developed country except ours uses a different system.

Any guess why?

 

[Genx87]

How large do you think it is?

How large do I think our free market healthcare is? Not very. But this isnt about my opinion, it is about yours. Now tell us about this free market healthcare within our country.

You made the claime. Lets hear it.

 

[fskimospy]

Correct me if I am wrong but per the new rules can't you just wait until you are sick and in need of health insurance to purchase it now?

That's what the penalty is for. I'm willing to bet that the percentage of people with high enough incomes to invoke the penalty but who choose not to have it anyway will be very small. The urban institute estimated that those falling in the penalty range would be about 2% of the population, but many of those are people with pre-existing conditions that cannot currently purchase insurance; many of them would likely do so. For example if I didn't get mine through my employer I would be in that boat and I will be very happy the day that I no longer need to worry about that.

The penalty in 2016 goes from about 60% of what it would cost to insure yourself up to about 90%, depending on income. Some people might make that choice, but my guess is not that many.

Oh, and I checked into the CBO estimates for a family insurance policy in 2016. It was about $12k. This is why people shouldn't read right wing news.

 

[Atreus21]

No the real argument is that you should not have the freedom not to buy health care without also having to face the consequences of that freedom, ie:death from preventable illness. We as a society decided a long time ago that we would not let the sick die if we could save them, and this is the natural result. You are arguing for freedom without accountability, which is not true freedom.

I don't think soaring health care costs are entirely attributable to that policy.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't think soaring health care costs are entirely attributable to that policy.

Of course not, but I wasn't saying that. What i was saying was that true freedom requires both freedom of action and acceptance of consequences. Arguing against the individual mandate without also arguing for the repeal of laws that guarantee medical treatment cannot be done in the name of freedom of action, it is just freedom to freeload.

 

[sportage]

I know people paying near that cost now, and that is thru our wonderful healthcare for profit system. You know... Pre-Obama. That good old blue cross blue shield masked-man stick-em-up system.

Do you realize thus each and every year, that healthcare for profit has requested a minimum of an 20% rate increase over the previous year?
And not once has that request been rejected, modified nor turned down by the health commissioner?
So do the math and figure, in what year will you hit that $20,000 mark?
And Im not talking Obamacare. I talking the status quo.

"The statue quo", or better known as "why millions of Americans have had no healthcare insurance over the past 30 years"....

 

[Doppel]

I know people paying near that cost now, and that is thru our wonderful healthcare for profit system. You know... Pre-Obama. That good old blue cross blue shield masked-man stick-em-up system.

Do you realize thus each and every year, that healthcare for profit has requested a minimum of an 20% rate increase over the previous year?
And not once has that request been rejected, modified nor turned down by the health commissioner?
So do the math and figure, in what year will you hit that $20,000 mark?
And Im not talking Obamacare. I talking the status quo.

"The statue quo", or better known as "why millions of Americans have had no healthcare insurance over the past 30 years"....

I have a co-worker who is on a consulting basis and his youn family of four costs him $1700/month.

Now that w2's include with the DD code what employees' healthcare costs I bet many will be surprised to see they are already paying well into the teens.

 

[Ausm]

How large do I think our free market healthcare is? Not very. But this isnt about my opinion, it is about yours. Now tell us about this free market healthcare within our country.

You made the claime. Lets hear it.

Damn you sound a little testy this morning, did someone piss in your cheerios?

I think the Market is as "Free" as the Rightists like it to be.

 

[Genx87]

Damn you sound a little testy this morning, did someone piss in your cheerios?

I think the Market is as "Free" as the Rightists like it to be.

Not testy, just curious. Since you cant seem to answer the question after asking 3 times. I will conclude the market isnt as free as your talking point wants us to believe.

 

[Charles Kozierok]

I think the Market is as "Free" as the Rightists like it to be.

Then you don't understand your opponents' position very well.

Healthcare is one of the most tightly regulated and manipulated markets in the economy. It is nowhere near to being a "free market".

 

[HomerJS]

CNS news??

I'd sooner believe The Onion

 

[Gunslinger08]

The $20k number is actually in an example of the linked IRS document. I wonder if that number is intended to represent the entire premium, not just the employee paid portion. If you look at insurance premiums now, the average for a family plan is around $15-17k. A $3-5k increase by 2016 is actually pretty reasonable, if you know anything about rising insurance costs.

Insurance is crazy expensive if you have a family and have to pay the full premium. Does your typical family use anywhere near $15k in services per year? Seems like it may be time for people to start only having insurance for catastrophic coverage. Pay for your normal stuff out of pocket with an HSA.

 

[glenn1]

The $20k number is actually in an example of the linked IRS document. I wonder if that number is intended to represent the entire premium, not just the employee paid portion. If you look at insurance premiums now, the average for a family plan is around $15-17k. A $3-5k increase by 2016 is actually pretty reasonable, if you know anything about rising insurance costs.

Insurance is crazy expensive if you have a family and have to pay the full premium. Does your typical family use anywhere near $15k in services per year? Seems like it may be time for people to start only having insurance for catastrophic coverage. Pay for your normal stuff out of pocket with an HSA.

That would be a great approach and make a lot of sense. You could even have the federal government subsidize the cost of a catastropic policy as a universal benefit. It would improve individual autonomy in the vast majority of cases while reducing costs as you wouldn't have to pay premiums for ridiculous government mandated coverage for dingleberry treatment or such bullshit. Which is likely the exact reason why politicians would never support it.

 

[sactoking]

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/irs-cheapest-obamacare-plan-will-be-20000-family

And here it comes. More government regulation being forced down our throats and our ass hat president is going to use the IRS to enforce the penalties.

Here is the real kicker. The people on welfare, unemployement, WIC, etc... that don't pay income taxes in the first place won't even be affected by this as they will still go straight to the ER to get their health care. No, it will effect those of us that actually play by the rules.

Pathetic...

The CNS article is completely wrong:
1. As mentioned, the $20,000 figure is an assumption used for illustrative purposes. It is not an explicit or implicit statement from the IRS that the least expensive coverage will cost that much.
2. Notwithstanding #1 above, the number may not be that ar off. Currently, the Kaiser Family Foundation estimates that the average health insurance premium nationwide is $278.22 per member per month. That's a blended average, with individual insurance policies coming in lower and group policies coming in higher. The whole point of the ACA (or at least one point) was to provide group-like coverage to individuals, since group coverage tends to be better. The side effect is group coverage is more expensive. $20,000 annual for a family of 5 would be ~$333 per person per month. Given the blended average premium that's not too far off.

Correct me if I am wrong but per the new rules can't you just wait until you are sick and in need of health insurance to purchase it now?

Yes and no. Starting in October of this year each Exchange will have an open enrollment period to purchase insurance for the upcoming calendar year. If you fail to purchase during open enrollment you will not be eligible to purchase on the Exchange until the next open enrollment period, in the following October.

Many (most?) states are looking at enacting similar open enrollment periods for off-Exchange business to counteract the adverse selection. In all likelihood, someone who missed open enrollment will not be able to buy "on the way to the hospital". Additionally, there are rules that dictate a "cooling off" period for those who have a life qualifying event; coverage purchased under those circumstances won't be effective for 15-45 days, again preventing last-minute purchase.

 

[etrigan420]

...getting our learn on...

Thanks man.

My wife is retired military, so we're sort of "out of the loop" as far as health care costs go, but it's really cool to see someone with so much working knowledge of the subject matter come in and (at least *try* to...) shed some light on the situation.

No homo.