Wow. Just wow. That's what I've been saying the entire time, but also expand it to 'just because it's written in some old book'.
And I don't think you need that much time to validate a well known fact...
Wow. Just wow. That's what I've been saying the entire time, but also expand it to 'just because it's written in some old book'.
And I don't think you need that much time to validate a well known fact...
Almost all Christians have a fvcked up view and interpretation of the bibles and the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Theres no ''fvcked up interpretation of the Qur'an'', the Quran is very clear that Music of this nature is a sin, like listning to an orchestra is fine, but listning to a guy singing about drugs, sex, etc is a sin. But its not our job to kill them for it...we can't really do anything more than tell them they are sinning, so they have no need to worryThe ''Muslim Extremists'' will not harm them because they can't, it goes against Quran to kill them because they sin.
Listening to terrible American Idol-type music is a sin regardless of what religion you belong to.
I don't mean to spoil your fun I have emailed a guy who might know this stuff he told me that the actions of Mohammad are not all considered Sunna ( something a muslim is recommended to follow after the Mohammad ), or as he explained that Mohammad was in a weak position with his tribe, he did marry 4 women at a time, of course he exapnded on that , by Islamic law those women should each have their own houses ( so no 4x1 action sorry guys) and his marriage with them wasn't an option he was weak in his tribe as I have explained and needed to increase his descendents inorder to gain support, and about the marriage to aisha it had two sides :
1- It was in a vision that he saw Gabriel informing him about marrying Aisha (regdless of her age), and as a command he had to obey that.
2- She was the daughter of Abu Baker one of the most influential men at his time and one of his first followers and his marriage to his daughter was with the acceptance of her family, and a protection for Mohammad against whomever plans to hurt him , being the husband of a man's daughter with allies, even after the death of Abu Baker.
So as you can see his marriae either to Aisha or the three others wasn't for fun, he was obliged by his medium to do so.
From what I recall Mohammed married Aisha (Mohammed's favorite wife) when she was 9 but waited until her first period to consummate with her. To most in this day and age that's pretty disgusting but back in the 7th century when the average life span was about 40 yrs, it was fairly common to marry very young women.
Originally posted by: littlewing
Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Theres no ''fvcked up interpretation of the Qur'an'', the Quran is very clear that Music of this nature is a sin, like listning to an orchestra is fine, but listning to a guy singing about drugs, sex, etc is a sin. But its not our job to kill them for it...we can't really do anything more than tell them they are sinning, so they have no need to worry
Listening to terrible American Idol-type music is a sin regardless of what religion you belong to.
:thumbsup: :laugh:
That's exactly what I am talking about he might have signed the marriage when she was 9 but under Islamic law she cannot have intercourse with him untill she have reached her period.
Um, I didn't say that they were supposed to, but people have used it as justification (as CoW has explained), as experienced in this very forum. And again you fail to comprehend what I said. I expand that not just to what one man did a thousand+ years ago, but even if it's written in some old book that a sky daddy supposedly was involved with.
That's nice, but I don't think that any old men should be having sex with little girls or even marry them. It doesn't matter if some old historic figure did it or if it's written in some old book. It's wrong for an old man to have sex with a pre-teen girl. It's wrong to perform any barbaric act, even if it's justified through the actions of any Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc. religious figure or if it was acceptable as defined through some old book.
Religion is not an excuse for barbarism!
Christian law as interpreted by almost all Christians is just as dangerous as Muslim law interpreted by a very few crazed Muslims, its effects are subtler but just as sinister.
I believe that common argument is that she was around 6-7 years old when married and 9 years old when the marriage was consumated.
This may have been fine a long time ago and I don't necessarily have a problem with it when taking into the context of the era. However, it's disgusting if done in modern times.
I'm not familiar with Christian Law - what exactly is Christian Law anyways? This is a serious question.
Could you also please expand on your premise that Christian Law interpreted by all Christians is just as bad as Muslim Law interpreted by a few crazed Muslims. Why is Islamic Law interpreted by the average Muslim better than Christian Law interpreted by the average Christian? I always assumed that the average Christian is less strict in their interpreation, but I can be wrong.
I would not want to live under any country that is largely under control from some religious book written thousand+ years ago.
I don't believe it is practiced anymore. In most Islamic countries if the couple is under 16 or so, the parents' permission is required for the marriage to be legal. I'm not 100% sure on all of the marriage laws so I'm gonna go look them up.
I'm not saying that it's commonly practiced or not commonly practiced anymore. It has no bearing on my position, which is that if some old historic figure or if some old book says that it was OK a long time ago, it doesn't mean that it's OK now in terms of modern humanity.
I have no argument with you there. I believe that both books of FICTION, the Quran and the bible are serious weapons that impede the progress of humanity towards peaceful coexistence. The bible and the quran have about as much credibility and practicality in modern life as the Greek mythologies. It's all total b.s. and millions of people have died or suffered at the hands of those following and carrying out the deeds for either religion.
I'm not sure if I would go as far in regards to these religious works impeding humanity, but I definitely 100% agree that they have about as much credibility and practicality as Greek mythologies or my made up stories of Zoryok the Supreme Alien Overlord.
Any society that bases a large portion of its government or laws off of some old book supposedly connected by some sort of sky daddy that lives in the clouds is going to be messed up.
Whya can't anyone see my point can't you see in my post when I sad that the person that I questioned him about this said that not all of Mohammads actiions are to be copied because he had a special situation, so in another meaning let me give you an example : Adam's son married his sister, did he have a problem with that ? Pretty much not when she was the only other girl around. So should you go ahead and marry your sister ? I couldn't recommend that :disgust:.
So as that guy said , Mohammad saw a vision an in that vision he was ordered to marry Aisha, so that wasn't part of the relegion but an exception, was sacrificing your son part of Abrahams relegion, NO but it was an exception that he was ordered to do so by God .
Therefore, I resume with my point marrying a 9 year old was a command and it was for his own good, ( considering who's daughter she was) .
My second point is that Stoning is a different issue completley, and that applies to almost every other punishment in Islam, on the net I have read a Hadith ( Any quoted statement that Mohammad was witnessed sayin or doing by his desciples), " If my daughter Fatima ever was guilty of a theft, I would have cut her hand myself." Why? well that's because that was part of his relegion and it's in his book.
On the other hand, marrying a 9 year old girl, is not and was a nexception for his case as I have explained above why.
So as that guy said , Mohammad saw a vision an in that vision he was ordered to marry Aisha, so that wasn't part of the relegion but an exception, was sacrificing your son part of Abrahams relegion, NO but it was an exception that he was ordered to do so by God .
Therefore, I resume with my point marrying a 9 year old was a command and it was for his own good, ( considering who's daughter she was) .
My second point is that Stoning is a different issue completley, and that applies to almost every other punishment in Islam, on the net I have read a Hadith ( Any quoted statement that Mohammad was witnessed sayin or doing by his desciples), " If my daughter Fatima ever was guilty of a theft, I would have cut her hand myself." Why? well that's because that was part of his relegion and it's in his book.
On the other hand, marrying a 9 year old girl, is not and was a nexception for his case as I have explained above why.
I completely disagree, following the rise of Islam they already had developed something that can be compared to no other than our modern Social Security System ( Without the loop holes
), it was a complete system, If you read the quran you would see a detailed description concerning finance, commerce, inheritance, marriage laws, charity , science, research, education, knwoledge ( relegious or materialistic or spiritual),...etc I couldn't find a single aspect of life that wasn't covered in it, remember that this system is the one responsible for tons of advancements in the fields of sciences, humanity , medecine, Philosophy...etc that were fundemental for the development of industrial Europe, can you say Algebra & Algorithims. Even the new world wouldnn't have been discovered by the days of Columbous if it wasn't for the Arabic navigation instrument called the astrolabe, which used complex mathmatical calculations concerning Astronomy (i.e Navigation via star's position) and mapping.I see your point because I've basically been saying it the entire time. However, some people incorrectly follow the actions of some historic or religious figures. It doesn't matter if you are following the actions of a historical figure or the words of some old book, if you are doing something that is barbaric or wrong then it is not exempt from the appropriate label in modern times just because it supposedly comes from some religious association.
Sure, it might have been for his own good and acceptable for his own time, but it's disgusting and barbaric for today's time. Nobody should use this as an excuse to have sex with 9 year old kids, killing your son, or marry your sister. Obviously it's not mandated in these religions, but people have used it as justification. That is wrong, even with that sort of justification. And it would still be wrong and barbaric even if it was somehow written in a book, as the other despicable punishments and acts are.
If someone cuts off a hand for theft, then that is barbaric and cruel. I don't care if it's in a book or not, it's just downright barbaric. Stoning is barbaric, too, even if it's in some old book. Religion is not an excuse for barbarism!
Originally posted by: The Linuxator
I completely disagree, following the rise of Islam they already had developed something that can be compared to no other than our modern Social Security Sstem ( Without the loop holes
I see the same in Greek mythology and my McDonald's happy meal toy.
I don't put down an advancement in science by a Christian or a Muslim as solely happening because of their religion.
I don't think that was your point , you were going around in cirles trying to prove that Mohammad which is considered by most historians as one of thee most significant figures ever, is a plain old CHILD MOLESTER bringing in examples about grandpa having sex with children , I am sorry I don't see a good intention towards Muslims here through that, even if you worded it out not to be like that.
Originally posted by: The Linuxator
I completely disagree, following the rise of Islam they already had developed something that can be compared to no other than our modern Social Security System ( Without the loop holes
And it also involves barbaric acts, laws, and customs. This system is outdated, archaic, useless, and disgusting in today's modern age.
Almost every system in its beginning has had advancement in some sort of field. The set of Islamic Laws today is barbaric, cruel, inhumane, and an impediment to free thought and science. It might have been a good system when people were savages and monsters, but it's useless and harmful today.
First, I don't think I ever said anything about 'grandpa'. That was CoW.
Second, you have HORRIBLE comprehension skills. I've already stated that I have no problem with what Mohammad did in his own era's context so damn long ago, but if he does it now in today's modern society, then it's disgusting, barbaric, and inhumane. He would without a doubt be labelled a child molestor in modern and civilized times. He had sex with a 9 year old child! That was probably acceptable in his time, but it's disgusting today.
Any old man that has sex with a 9 year old child in today's time is a sick and perverted monster. End of story.
No, I refuse to believe that having sex with little 9 year old girls is an appropriate course of action for any old men in today's time. It might have been acceptable back then, but times have changed now.
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