gee this post is still alive......Personally I am amazed at the resiliance of the Iraqi people and how badly many of them do just simply want freedom.
In the face of all thats happened to them and now the wacko insurgent/terrorists/nutcase who think they are pleasing God have started indiscrimantly bombing crowds of worshipers/job seekers/shoppers....etc
One would think they could be allowed to enjoy something as simple as singing a song or playing a flute??
In the face of all thats happened to them and now the wacko insurgent/terrorists/nutcase who think they are pleasing God have started indiscrimantly bombing crowds of worshipers/job seekers/shoppers....etc
One would think they could be allowed to enjoy something as simple as singing a song or playing a flute??
Actually, your opinions are not even supported by the majority of others in this forum. So your opinions are baseless. There are hundreds of millions of adherents to Islamic Law. Your nonsensical claim does nothing to change their beliefs and adherence.
No, there is no 'pressure' on anyone to ask to be killed with stones. You have to understand that the burden of proof is very, very high, next to improbable levels. A person who accepts the crime and asks for punishment willingly is a different case altogether, and even then, if he/she choses to escape the punishment, he/she can.
The fact that this punishment is hardly EVER carried out anywhere in the Islamic world should serve to highlight the fact how excessive the burden of proof is to necessitate the punishment.
Female Genital Mutilation is not part of Islamic Law.
Actually, your opinions are not even supported by almost 99.9% of others in this forum. You see, I don't think that 99.9% of this forum is willing to murder their child by bashing the kid's head in with a rock. Oh, and there's also that thing with old men having sex with young pre-teen girls. I don't think that would go too well here either.
It doesn't matter if there are 10, hundreds of millions, or billions of people that support barbarism. It's simply wrong.
You can try to play a numbers game all you want, but in the end there will almost always be more people that will not believe in any one set of barbaric acts. You'll lose almost every time. But thanks for playing!
I understand your conern Rabid Mongoose, but in some thing you are overstepping a boundry.
Ultimately there will always be people against current music for whatever reason. I can easily find them here among friends who only listen to classical and christian music. This does not make them crazy nuts, or people who are bad and barbaric because they think my listening to the occaisonal eminem song will doom me to hell. But because of the lawlessness over there, it opens up opporutnies for people to try to enforce their world view on things.
And considering the occupation of Iraq right now, it can be understandable why people maybe insecure about being too "american" whether it spans from notion of the destruction of Iraqi identity. Things like thse can and will fade overtime. No doubt Iraqi Society will get a little bit more westernized (Though argueably they were already pretty western atlesat under the rule of Saddam), but at the same time it won't be anywhere near something like Japan.
Just remember how the world sees us and our culture: baywatch, promiscious sex, bla bla bla. I think it happens everywhere (every culture has these things, even if they are smaller elements) but it sounds like people are too scared that it will turn Iraq into some playboy country people act too American.
Ultimately it just boils down to people's natural insecurities about things that are different...not some crazy spiel about barbaric laws. And considering this type of insecurity is happening on the level of a country, I'm not really all that suprised
Ultimately there will always be people against current music for whatever reason. I can easily find them here among friends who only listen to classical and christian music. This does not make them crazy nuts, or people who are bad and barbaric because they think my listening to the occaisonal eminem song will doom me to hell. But because of the lawlessness over there, it opens up opporutnies for people to try to enforce their world view on things.
And considering the occupation of Iraq right now, it can be understandable why people maybe insecure about being too "american" whether it spans from notion of the destruction of Iraqi identity. Things like thse can and will fade overtime. No doubt Iraqi Society will get a little bit more westernized (Though argueably they were already pretty western atlesat under the rule of Saddam), but at the same time it won't be anywhere near something like Japan.
Just remember how the world sees us and our culture: baywatch, promiscious sex, bla bla bla. I think it happens everywhere (every culture has these things, even if they are smaller elements) but it sounds like people are too scared that it will turn Iraq into some playboy country people act too American.
Ultimately it just boils down to people's natural insecurities about things that are different...not some crazy spiel about barbaric laws. And considering this type of insecurity is happening on the level of a country, I'm not really all that suprised
Here is a word of wisdom from the Quran that I have learned in my world releigions class :
" There is no compulsion in relegion"
So the bottom line is that if you are forcing somone to beleive in what you beleive you are not a Muslim and you are an extremist stop judging Islam with what you know not of
And RabidMongoose if you want to talk about barbaric releigous punishment why shouldn't we considre a the example that I have showed you in a previous thread ,
Weren't women burned to death here in this country for random accusations of witchcraft by orders of the church ? Didn't the same happen in Europe ?
IMHO we do not see those things anymore because we stopped using Christian law and we seperated church from state.
Why is Islamic law barberic ? If somone adheres to Islam then he / she accepts all the conditions that come with it , and one of those are that if you cheat on your wife / husband and 4 witnesses are able to testify it and you accept the fact that you want to be cleansed of this sin then why not ?
But there are issues such as killing someone for singing that's ignorance itself, and doesn't apply to the laws of Islam as the quoted verse from the Quran above states.
Singing and dancing isn't sin as long as it doesn't contain curse words nor motivation towards sexual actions. -------> DO your research before you start blemishing others relegion.
I have never heared a Muslim bashing Christianity because of what Chrisitans have done during the middle ages, why? Well because they know that wasn't actually Christianity being applied, just the desire of ignorant relegion men trying to twist relegion for there own sake.
" There is no compulsion in relegion"
So the bottom line is that if you are forcing somone to beleive in what you beleive you are not a Muslim and you are an extremist stop judging Islam with what you know not of
And RabidMongoose if you want to talk about barbaric releigous punishment why shouldn't we considre a the example that I have showed you in a previous thread ,
Weren't women burned to death here in this country for random accusations of witchcraft by orders of the church ? Didn't the same happen in Europe ?
IMHO we do not see those things anymore because we stopped using Christian law and we seperated church from state.
Why is Islamic law barberic ? If somone adheres to Islam then he / she accepts all the conditions that come with it , and one of those are that if you cheat on your wife / husband and 4 witnesses are able to testify it and you accept the fact that you want to be cleansed of this sin then why not ?
But there are issues such as killing someone for singing that's ignorance itself, and doesn't apply to the laws of Islam as the quoted verse from the Quran above states.
Singing and dancing isn't sin as long as it doesn't contain curse words nor motivation towards sexual actions. -------> DO your research before you start blemishing others relegion.
I have never heared a Muslim bashing Christianity because of what Chrisitans have done during the middle ages, why? Well because they know that wasn't actually Christianity being applied, just the desire of ignorant relegion men trying to twist relegion for there own sake.
LOL - this is like the 'the person criticizing the racist is intolerant!!!' argument. Nice job!
I don't care what your religion or mindset is, but if you support barbaric acts then you will be criticized.
Uh, yeah, and that's pretty damn barbaric.
I'm not sure if witch burning is part of some sort of Christian Law (if there is even such a thing as 'Christian Law', but this instance is probably the same as beheading innocent people - ie, not really directly part of the law), but if it is then it's barbaric and deserves to be criticized.
I've said over and over that any society that strictly takes all parts of some sort of religious laws from a long long time ago when people were savages and barbaric (thus encompassing all of the major old religions) will result in barbarity.
Strict Islamic Law is barbaric because it results in barbaric conditions and punishment. Stonings are barbaric. There is no other way around it.
If you cheat on your spouse, then the punishment of stoning or death is barbaric. It's pretty simple. It doesn't matter where this punishment derives its inspiration from.
That's nice, but I haven't said anything about singing and dancing. In addition, your remarks here are pretty similar to witch burnings and the like.
That's nice, but I'm addressing these barbaric religious laws and I'm not sure how this relates in any way. I'm not bashing a group for the actions of some constituents of that specific group.
The bottom line is that strict Islamic Law is barbaric, cruel, and inhumane. The same would probably be of any other strict interpretation of a religion's laws.
Barbarity is not excused just because you believe in a sky daddy that lives in the clouds.
Again I don't see it as barbaeric who are you to judge it ? If Muslims considred it barberic they wouldn't have taken that relegion upon themselves.
And whomever is a Muslim and considres a direct implementations of the Quran (again I am saying an implemntation of the Muslim holy book which is the same exact book for all sects and it's agreed upon by all Muslims to be the same exact book from the times of Mohammad ) as barberic then there are tons of relegions out there let him / here pick one, the same applies to Chrisitans, Jews and what not.
RabidMongoose using your own logic The Holy Bible is full of "Barberity" you should try reading it someday.
And whomever is a Muslim and considres a direct implementations of the Quran (again I am saying an implemntation of the Muslim holy book which is the same exact book for all sects and it's agreed upon by all Muslims to be the same exact book from the times of Mohammad ) as barberic then there are tons of relegions out there let him / here pick one, the same applies to Chrisitans, Jews and what not.
RabidMongoose using your own logic The Holy Bible is full of "Barberity" you should try reading it someday.
Hey RabidMongoose in case you haven't read the Bible let me enlighten you :
Quoted from the book of Genesis :
# Any person or animal that touches Mt. Sinai shall be stoned to death or "shot through." 19:12-13
# "The Lord is a man of war." Indeed, judging from his acts in the Old Testament, he is a vicious warlike monster. 15:3
# Kill those of other faiths. 12:30
# God's right hand dashes people in pieces. 15:6
# Joshua, with God's approval, kills the Amalekites "with the edge of the sword." 17:13
# "The Lord has sworn [God swears!] that the Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation." 17:14-16
# God gives instructions for killing and burning animals. He says that if we will make such "burnt offerings," he will bless us for it. What kind of mind would be pleased by the killing and burning of innocent animals? 20:24
Quoted from the book of Genesis :
# Any person or animal that touches Mt. Sinai shall be stoned to death or "shot through." 19:12-13
# "The Lord is a man of war." Indeed, judging from his acts in the Old Testament, he is a vicious warlike monster. 15:3
# Kill those of other faiths. 12:30
# God's right hand dashes people in pieces. 15:6
# Joshua, with God's approval, kills the Amalekites "with the edge of the sword." 17:13
# "The Lord has sworn [God swears!] that the Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation." 17:14-16
# God gives instructions for killing and burning animals. He says that if we will make such "burnt offerings," he will bless us for it. What kind of mind would be pleased by the killing and burning of innocent animals? 20:24
Info concerning husband and wife :
# If two men fight and the wife of one grabs the "secrets" of the other, "then thou shalt cut off her hand" and "thine eye shall not pity her." 25:11-12
Do you want me to go on or did you get the point ?
# If two men fight and the wife of one grabs the "secrets" of the other, "then thou shalt cut off her hand" and "thine eye shall not pity her." 25:11-12
Do you want me to go on or did you get the point ?
Sheesh, people keep using the same arguments. Obviously barbarity is subjective, just as 'right' and 'wrong' are subjective. It's the same reason why saying 'slavery is wrong' is subjective in a sense.
By the way, people take a religion upon themselves hundreds to thousands of years ago because of the barbaric nature and times of the era. In modern times, some aspects of these religions has become outdated and barbaric.
No way! That's basically what I implied. Thanks for playing!
I have no intention of reading another book about a mythical sky daddy.
And those are barbaric and laws based off of them would be barbaric. However, I'm worried that you may be taking quotes out of context and such, as people do with quotes in regards to Islam.
It's always hilarious when someone refuses to read my full posts and assumes that I'm some sort of Christian. Hello! Try reading! You're basically confirming what I've already said!
I think the problem is that YOU haven't been getting my point.
Barbarism is not exempt if people believe it comes from some sort of sky daddy in the clouds.
I do find many parts of Islam to be barbaric and cruel if they are practiced in today's time. It is the 21st century, not the 7th. Just because someone did stuff in the 7th century doesn't mean you should do it nowadays. I think oppressing other religious minorities based upon your religion is cruel. I think requiring the deaths of people who no longer believe in Islam is cruel - why should they be judged under Islam when they are no longer Muslim? I think it's extremely barbaric to have entire cities restricted to people of one religion.
We have members on this forum who believe that it's ok for a grandpa to have sex with children because Mohammed had a child wife. In the 7th century! It's the 21st now. Just because some guy did it over a thousand years ago does not mean that it is still normal to do. Mohammed was also illiterate. Why didn't you stay illiterate? Oh, because you choose your own beliefs.
We have members on this forum who believe that it's ok for a grandpa to have sex with children because Mohammed had a child wife. In the 7th century! It's the 21st now. Just because some guy did it over a thousand years ago does not mean that it is still normal to do. Mohammed was also illiterate. Why didn't you stay illiterate? Oh, because you choose your own beliefs.
I don't know what your relegion is and I don't want to know I am only showing you these verses as a counter argument, so If Islam is baraberic then you are condeming Christianity as Barberic .
Is Christianity barberic ? If the answer is no, this implies that Islam isn't barberic , and therefore you will appologize to whomever you have insulted with your posts, ( If you wish), and lets end this subject.
If the answer is yes, then you are insulting Islam, Christianity and much more then I don't know what to say to you without damaging your self esteem.
Is Christianity barberic ? If the answer is no, this implies that Islam isn't barberic , and therefore you will appologize to whomever you have insulted with your posts, ( If you wish), and lets end this subject.
If the answer is yes, then you are insulting Islam, Christianity and much more then I don't know what to say to you without damaging your self esteem.
This may be hard for you to undestand. I don't believe that he's saying that Islam is barbaric or that Christianity is barbaric as a whole. He's saying that they have barbaric aspects to it if certain practices are still practiced in today's time. For example, if people think that it's ok to have slaves because the Bible has slavery in it, that is a barbaric practice. If people think it's ok for grandpas to have sex with children because Mohammed did it in the 7th century, that's barbaric.
Who said he had a child wife can you lgive me a proof. Islamic law indicates that for two to get married they should both have reached the age of pubirty ( usually around 14~15) and the man shoud have the conscent of his parents and the woman should have the conscent of her parents for the marriage to be considered legte under Islamic law. And just becasue our laws say that you have to be 18 to get married doesn't make it a universal law, though a girl getting married at the age of 14 isn't something common even in Muslim countries.
Just do a google search on Mohammed's child wife. It's a pretty common thing. I believe that she was 9 when the marriage was consummated. It was a different time. Just because it was accepted in the 7th century doesn't mean that grandpas can have sex with 9 year olds in the 21st. Times change. People and cultures evolve.
I need sometime to look up my sources to validate such claims, but either way I don't think you can go and try to slit your son's throat just because Abraham was goin to.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
- 126
Exactly, now you understand. It is barbaric to think that you can do it because it was written in a book.
I'm saying that religious laws based off of a time when people were savages are going to be barbaric in modern times. Strict Islamic Law is barbaric because it seems to have many barbaric tendencies. However, not all of Islam is barbaric.
If there is a 'Christian Law' (if there is such a thing - I have no clue about that) and it calls for similar actions as Islamic Law, then it is likely to be largely barbaric.
In addition, I'm not sure if your verses are an adequate counter argument, as they can easily be taken out of context and such, as we have seen people do with some verses in relation to Islam. However, I'm sure that there are probably some barbaric and wrong passages in these religions.
I don't know if these entire religions are barbaric, but certain portions of these religions certainly are barbaric.
Again, try to read my posts. You keep repeating the same things over and over again when I've already stated them.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 22K
-
News NVIDIA and Intel to Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products- Started by poke01
- Replies: 384
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
Facebook
Twitter