Iran, six world powers clinch breakthrough nuclear deal

[rudeguy]

so your saying this treaty is worthless

I think we are all saying that we don't know. What we don't agree on is the cost of being wrong.

 

[IGBT]

..so who will the liberals give nuke weapons to next?? Maybe castro is on their Christmas list. Sure why not?? Give Cuba the bomb. What difference does it make??

 

[kage69]

I don't think this treaty was the right thing but sanctions were not working. I don't understand why the release of American prisoners wasn't the first line on that treaty and I don't understand why we are giving Iran a single ounce of trust.

Oh?


From what I've seen these new sanctions have worked rather well.

Not your standard slap on the wrist, as it were. I'm not talking about the sanctions that Iran laughed at in 2006, I'm talking about the hits they took to their gas and oil export revenues, not to mention their banks getting the boot from SWIFT which twisted their nuts even more. But that hasn't had much of an effect?

Rouhani took office on my birthday, Aug 3, and in that time real dialogue seems to have been created and a working deal is now on table. Will it pan out? We'll see. You do recall what Rouhani ran on though right? Were you aware that in a country with quite high voter turn out he got over 50% of the vote? Not sure what the next guy got but remember it was nowhere close.

And now, for the first time, the US has it's own "backdoor" line of communication with Tehran. Previously we had to always use the Brits or the Swiss as intermediaries when our high level guys wanted to pow wow with their high level guys. I can't stress how handy that might become, and think it's about damn time.


Edit: Mayor of Tehran was runner up with 16.46% of the vote, to Rouhani's 50.88% (ouch!) I'd say Rouhani's vow to end sanctions sold well to the home crowd. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_presidential_election,_2013

 

[trenchfoot]

Sort of an update: The Treaty has a six month sunset clause built in. So it looks like this treaty was meant for nothng more than keeping Iran in stasis while more in-depth negotiations are pursued for the duration.

I guess this is progress of some sort, so I can assume the sanctions had some positive influence.

 

[kage69]

..so who will the liberals give nuke weapons to next?? Maybe castro is on their Christmas list. Sure why not?? Give Cuba the bomb. What difference does it make??

Probably none. We're all gonna die. You should probably hole up in your bunker now.

 

[trenchfoot]

Probably none. We're all gonna die. You should probably hole up in your bunker now.

You know, I have this odd sense that tells me some of those folks who built their luxury doomsday bunkers can't wait to have a reason to use them. I think part of the reason is to have the satisfaction of saying "Told yuh so! Ahhhhhh told yuh so!"

Never underestimate a fella consumed by paranoia I say.

 

[Pens1566]

I'd be willing to bet that 99% of people raging about this "deal" were also certain the invasion of Iraq was necessary.

 

[trenchfoot]

I'd be willing to bet that 99% of people raging about this "deal" were also certain the invasion of Iraq was necessary.

Which begs the question: Where would we be if Bush and Cheney were the "deciders" in this instance instead of Obama.

Iraq 2.0 anyone?

 

[werepossum]

Iran asked for 6 months to show that they are now serious.

So we go into a mode that is Trust but Verify.

They get their 6 months to prove themselves and the inspectors get unlimited access all over. Flood the country with inspectors; some being Israeli. check everything twice and ensure that everything gets accounted for that we know and they have paper trails on.

Israeli may have additional insights - utilize them.

Agreed. We cannot really stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons either way, just make it more difficult and more lengthy a process. I have zero faith that Iran will honor its obligations, but the possible decrease in time may well be offset with the greater insight we'll gain into how their nuclear processes work. As far as a threat to the United States, Iran is limited to either a sea shot on a carrier group or providing a terrorist group with a nuclear weapon (while maintaining plausible deniability) to be smuggled into the USA or an allied port. I suspect we wouldn't miss preparations for the first and if successful it guarantees a nuclear retaliation which Iran has little chance to defeat, so we can probably rule that out. The second becomes more likely, but with greater insight into their enrichment facilities we may have a better chance of detecting such a bomb or at least successfully tracking it to its nation of origin. Hell, the smarter thing for Iran would be to pay for a bomb from Pakistan, Russia or North Korea, since money is inherently fungible and proving Iranian responsibility would be highly difficult to the satisfaction of our allies and impossible to the satisfaction of our detractors.

I can certainly understand Israel's fear though, as Iran regularly puts out official speeches calling for the destruction of Israel and has often described how one nuclear weapon could wipe Israel off the map.

 

[rudeguy]

Oh?


From what I've seen these new sanctions have worked rather well.

Not your standard slap on the wrist, as it were. I'm not talking about the sanctions that Iran laughed at in 2006, I'm talking about the hits they took to their gas and oil export revenues, not to mention their banks getting the boot from SWIFT which twisted their nuts even more. But that hasn't had much of an effect?

Rouhani took office on my birthday, Aug 3, and in that time real dialogue seems to have been created and a working deal is now on table. Will it pan out? We'll see. You do recall what Rouhani ran on though right? Were you aware that in a country with quite high voter turn out he got over 50% of the vote? Not sure what the next guy got but remember it was nowhere close.

And now, for the first time, the US has it's own "backdoor" line of communication with Tehran. Previously we had to always use the Brits or the Swiss as intermediaries when our high level guys wanted to pow wow with their high level guys. I can't stress how handy that might become, and think it's about damn time.


Edit: Mayor of Tehran was runner up with 16.46% of the vote, to Rouhani's 50.88% (ouch!) I'd say Rouhani's vow to end sanctions sold well to the home crowd. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_presidential_election,_2013

I said the sanctions weren't working and that we needed a treaty. Do you disagree?

Believe me...I hope I'm wrong and Iran gets it shit together. I hope we become allies and they embrace us and our other allies. I hope this is a step towards peace and stability in the Middle East. I really do.

But we have all seen the smoke and mirrors before. We all know the history of that country and I am not one to believe that someone goes from a sworn enemy to an ally overnight. I hope I'm wrong but what if I'm not?

 

[werepossum]

Oh?

From what I've seen these new sanctions have worked rather well.

Not your standard slap on the wrist, as it were. I'm not talking about the sanctions that Iran laughed at in 2006, I'm talking about the hits they took to their gas and oil export revenues, not to mention their banks getting the boot from SWIFT which twisted their nuts even more. But that hasn't had much of an effect?

Rouhani took office on my birthday, Aug 3, and in that time real dialogue seems to have been created and a working deal is now on table. Will it pan out? We'll see. You do recall what Rouhani ran on though right? Were you aware that in a country with quite high voter turn out he got over 50% of the vote? Not sure what the next guy got but remember it was nowhere close.

And now, for the first time, the US has it's own "backdoor" line of communication with Tehran. Previously we had to always use the Brits or the Swiss as intermediaries when our high level guys wanted to pow wow with their high level guys. I can't stress how handy that might become, and think it's about damn time.


Edit: Mayor of Tehran was runner up with 16.46% of the vote, to Rouhani's 50.88% (ouch!) I'd say Rouhani's vow to end sanctions sold well to the home crowd. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_presidential_election,_2013

Agreed, the sanctions were working well, but they could only delay the process and increase its cost. Far too much information is out there, and a nation as industrialized as Iran can certainly build a bomb if it sticks the course. We just made their enrichment easier and cheaper, but hopefully also easier for us to track.

As far as Rouhani goes, never forget that no candidates are allowed unless they have the Mullahs' stamp of approval.

 

[IGBT]

Iran will laugh in obama's face just like the north koreans did to Albright.

 

[Agent11]

Agreed. We cannot really stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons either way, just make it more difficult and more lengthy a process. I have zero faith that Iran will honor its obligations, but the possible decrease in time may well be offset with the greater insight we'll gain into how their nuclear processes work. As far as a threat to the United States, Iran is limited to either a sea shot on a carrier group or providing a terrorist group with a nuclear weapon (while maintaining plausible deniability) to be smuggled into the USA or an allied port. I suspect we wouldn't miss preparations for the first and if successful it guarantees a nuclear retaliation which Iran has little chance to defeat, so we can probably rule that out. The second becomes more likely, but with greater insight into their enrichment facilities we may have a better chance of detecting such a bomb or at least successfully tracking it to its nation of origin. Hell, the smarter thing for Iran would be to pay for a bomb from Pakistan, Russia or North Korea, since money is inherently fungible and proving Iranian responsibility would be highly difficult to the satisfaction of our allies and impossible to the satisfaction of our detractors.

I can certainly understand Israel's fear though, as Iran regularly puts out official speeches calling for the destruction of Israel and has often described how one nuclear weapon could wipe Israel off the map.

To develop nuclear weapons Iran would have to test nuclear weapons, at which point Israel would probably nuke them, or we would, using stealth aircraft.

 

[cubby1223]

To develop nuclear weapons Iran would have to test nuclear weapons, at which point Israel would probably nuke them, or we would, using stealth aircraft.

Except history has shown that when a country reaches that stage, we back off and not threaten attacks anymore - remember the response to North Korea sinking a South Korean ship? Neither do I.

 

[AViking]

The reason the USA has a bad relationship with Iran is because of the USA. It's our own damn fault. So with that said maybe we should be happy that we are trying to move forward and fix our stupid mistakes. We go into these countries and make a giant mess out of everything and then try to take the moral high ground. We were the problem there. Not them. It wasn't until we had fucked everything up by overthrowing their government that they got a bunch of lunatics in power. Now they have a new President though and we have made some initial progress. Lets see how it goes.

 

[michal1980]

The reason the USA has a bad relationship with Iran is because of the USA. It's our own damn fault. So with that said maybe we should be happy that we are trying to move forward and fix our stupid mistakes. We go into these countries and make a giant mess out of everything and then try to take the moral high ground. We were the problem there. Not them. It wasn't until we had fucked everything up by overthrowing their government that they got a bunch of lunatics in power. Now they have a new President though and we have made some initial progress. Lets see how it goes.

why does the left hate America? its always America's fault in the mind of the lib.

 

[Abwx]

.

as Iran regularly puts out official speeches calling for the destruction of Israel and has often described how one nuclear weapon could wipe Israel off the map.

"This (zionist) regime will be erased from the pages of History" has
been translated in the words you re using , i guess that building
an argumentation out of mistranslations is the usual traits
of self sufficent people that only manage to expose their
mediocrity and clulessness when discussing thoses political matters.

Indeed the regime that rules Palestine has to be changed
from its actual basis wich are supremacism , apartheid
and of course racism as the necessary fuel..

 

[Abwx]

To develop nuclear weapons Iran would have to test nuclear weapons, at which point Israel would probably nuke them, or we would, using stealth aircraft.

Not neccesary to build a device , simulations are already
accurate enough , hence the usual nuclear powers stopping
their tests , not because of good will but because they have
the tools to do them using softwares and Iran has very
capable scientists in all fields..

 

[Abwx]

why does the left hate America? its always America's fault in the mind of the lib.

Did Iran stage a coup against a democraticaly elected
governement in the US.?..

In short the US was also a victim of their Ajax op,
that s what you re implying...

 

[Agent11]

Except history has shown that when a country reaches that stage, we back off and not threaten attacks anymore - remember the response to North Korea sinking a South Korean ship? Neither do I.

North Korea is unfortunately within spitting distance of South Korea, I doubt nuclear fallout would be good for their vibrant economy, and they have threatened to go full retard if we launch a conventional attack.

 

[AViking]

why does the left hate America? its always America's fault in the mind of the lib.

You are an ignorant fool to respond like that. I assume you're born in 1980 so you should have had plenty of time to get an education by now.

 

[werepossum]

To develop nuclear weapons Iran would have to test nuclear weapons, at which point Israel would probably nuke them, or we would, using stealth aircraft.

Israel might, but as for us . . .

Except history has shown that when a country reaches that stage, we back off and not threaten attacks anymore - remember the response to North Korea sinking a South Korean ship? Neither do I.

 

[AViking]

We keep pigeon holing countries into feeling that they NEED nuclear weapons. Libya, South Africa, North Korea, and now Iran. We need to be smart and use diplomacy properly. North Korea is a failure, the other two were successes, and there's no reason we can't be successful in Iran.

 

[K1052]

So Obama recently forged ahead, precisely at the same time Obamacare was failing. How convenient.

If you mean the 9123rd useless attempt by the house to repeal Obamacare then yea that was probably happening at the time. The program itself wasn't under any real pressure since the major turning point in negotiations happen in March and April and Obamacare didn't roll out until October.

 

[michal1980]

We keep pigeon holing countries into feeling that they NEED nuclear weapons. Libya, South Africa, North Korea, and now Iran. We need to be smart and use diplomacy properly. North Korea is a failure, the other two were successes, and there's no reason we can't be successful in Iran.

and again blaming america.