Iran, six world powers clinch breakthrough nuclear deal

[michal1980]

Yet others here that are lets say "pro-Iran", that state they already have the technology and know how.

So the first understanding is:
Do they have the ability to create a bomb?
If not a second:
Is are they attempting to get to that level if not there
else a Third:
Why do they trying for the extra enrichment beyond peaceful power and medical purposes

Iran was hurting due to the sanctions on at least selling the oil and metals.
How much was painful in terms of getting supplies; we do not know.
But they did get levels of relief for both areas; so sanctions did have some impact
With Saddam, he was never open and honest w/ respect to nuclear material. HE played the shell game, even though there may not have been any peas under the shells.

We have now 6 months of being able to look under the shells to see the pea and the size of the pea or if the shells are still going to be moved around.

We dont have 6 months to see anything. We have 6 months to go see area's Iran will let us see.

 

[EagleKeeper]

We dont have 6 months to see anything. We have 6 months to go see area's Iran will let us see.

such is the shell game.

The impression presented by the Western world media is that Iran is open game for looking at declared nuclear facilities/locations.

Will the inspectors ask to look elsewhere and will they be denied.
such is one reason why I recommended that Israel inspectors are part of the team; they may have inside information that Iran has not revealed. And if so; will Iran conceded and cooperate immediately, delay (erase evidence) or refuse access.

 

[fskimospy]

such is the shell game.

The impression presented by the Western world media is that Iran is open game for looking at declared nuclear facilities/locations.

Will the inspectors ask to look elsewhere and will they be denied.
such is one reason why I recommended that Israel inspectors are part of the team; they may have inside information that Iran has not revealed. And if so; will Iran conceded and cooperate immediately, delay (erase evidence) or refuse access.

Iran would never allow Israeli inspectors. If Israel has inside information they can relay it to us without being on the team themselves.

 

[kage69]

I said the sanctions weren't working and that we needed a treaty. Do you disagree?

I know what you said because I quoted it, and my following response addressed it directly.

So, in case that was confusing - Yes. I disagree with the view that sanctions haven't been working. The numbers involved indicate it's been anything but painless for Iran, and on top of that my sisters best friend since 4th grade is an Iranian raised in the States. She and her two brothers (well, one of them anyway, the one that didn't join the Marines!) visit their grandparents periodically. Talking with them gives one a pretty good picture of where nuclear prestige ranks with Iranians who constantly stress about locating groceries and car supplies.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Iran would never allow Israeli inspectors. If Israel has inside information they can relay it to us without being on the team themselves.

Iran should have no say in the make up of any inspection team.

 

[fskimospy]

Iran should have no say in the make up of any inspection team.

Of course they will have a say in the makeup of an inspection team. Including Israeli inspectors does not make the inspections more effective and it likely would have resulted in no deal happening. Not useful. Additionally, Israel was not party to these talks and it would be very strange to have inspections for a deal in part carried out by a country that wasn't part of the deal.

If Israel has specific intelligence about Iranian nuclear sites and activities they can share it with the inspectors. Their physical presence would not be required.

 

[bshole]

Kudo's to Obama, another staggering foreign policy coup. If a Republican was in the White House, we would already be fighting a bloody war in Syria and would just now be landing boots in Iran. Every day that goes by just serves to demonstrate how much more competent Democrats are in the White House.

 

[Jaskalas]

Kudo's to Obama, another staggering foreign policy coup. If a Republican was in the White House, we would already be fighting a bloody war in Syria and would just now be landing boots in Iran. Every day that goes by just serves to demonstrate how much more competent Democrats are in the White House.

If President Obama got what he wanted, there WOULD be a bloody war in Syria.

 

[bshole]

If President Obama got what he wanted, there WOULD be a bloody war in Syria.

He was bluffing. Everybody knows that now. It was a masterful display of political acumen in practice. Nuance, a concept completely lost on the Republicans has been a welcome sight in the White House.

 

[zinfamous]

ya, thats what Iran is using...

Actualy they have the most possibly advanced gear , so much
that they could had enriched enough uranium for many devices
but apparently they didnt go over 20% enrichment..

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/02/23/290433/iran-installs-180-new-centrifuges/

Yet others here that are lets say "pro-Iran", that state they already have the technology and know how.

So the first understanding is:
Do they have the ability to create a bomb?
If not a second:
Is are they attempting to get to that level if not there
else a Third:
Why do they trying for the extra enrichment beyond peaceful power and medical purposes

Iran was hurting due to the sanctions on at least selling the oil and metals.
How much was painful in terms of getting supplies; we do not know.
But they did get levels of relief for both areas; so sanctions did have some impact
With Saddam, he was never open and honest w/ respect to nuclear material. HE played the shell game, even though there may not have been any peas under the shells.

We have now 6 months of being able to look under the shells to see the pea and the size of the pea or if the shells are still going to be moved around.

I was stuck on the tech that they began, I believe, with the knowledge stolen by and sold by A Q Khan--pretty sure he is the one that got it to Iran (as he did Pakistan and NK).

At the time, what he was providing was very old knowledge, and yes, the technology was as old as was available, and required a significant amount of time to enrich enough uranium to create a single warhead.

Obviously, they've gotten better. I guess that is not surprising. For me, it hasn't been about if they already have the knowledge and know-how--they do. It's about their efficiency in getting there; the time it takes to create multiple warheads.

Iran is a country with a very young, very educated population in the city centers--particularly Tehran. Most of these people are, in fact, very much pro-western. The leaders are historically "crazy," no one denies that, but they are also where they are right now because of western-backed shenanigans post-WW2. Most can understand the distrust/anger you get from the leadership and how easily this story plays in the rural, primarily elderly villages; and yet despite all that, you have great distrust amongst the populace regarding their leadership. These people very much want what we have--they don't want to destroy us for these things, and they really don't want to destroy Israel for it (because that very much does mean the end of Iran. That is the only endgame in such a scenario, and everyone knows it)

 

[JEDIYoda]

honestly, I doubt that.

I don't care that you've traveled to the area. I don't care that your people live their. I only know that you have a fundamental belief tied to "us vs them," and your heart immediately biases your thoughts against "the enemy"

You listen only to arguments that fan your hate and strengthen your closed mind.

This has been the inerrant flavor of all of your posts.

It will continue to be the flavor of my posts!
Why?
because the truth is right in front of your face!
You honestly and truly believe that Iran will not nuke Israel??

You try to deflect the argument by pointing out that the US has nuclear weapons and have used them.
Yet you don`t realize or purposely don`t understand that we used them to stop a most vile war that would have gone on for many, many years. Since then we have not used the at all!!

So what will be Iran`s excuse when they use nuclear weapons?
They were putting a stop to a war that had claimed many lives?
They were doing a pre-emptive attack....

ahh...I get it now.....as long they don`t go nuclear against the US , it ok...hmmm

 

[zinfamous]

If President Obama got what he wanted, there WOULD be a bloody war in Syria.

..are you implying that there wasn't, and there still isn't, a bloody war in Syria?

:hmm:

 

[JEDIYoda]

Iran is a country with a very young, very educated population in the city centers--particularly Tehran. Most of these people are, in fact, very much pro-western. The leaders are historically "crazy," no one denies that, but they are also where they are right now because of western-backed shenanigans post-WW2. Most can understand the distrust/anger you get from the leadership and how easily this story plays in the rural, primarily elderly villages; and yet despite all that, you have great distrust amongst the populace regarding their leadership. These people very much want what we have--they don't want to destroy us for these things, and they really don't want to destroy Israel for it (because that very much does mean the end of Iran. That is the only endgame in such a scenario, and everyone knows it)

very wishful thinking...........what are you smoking?

 

[zinfamous]

It will continue to be the flavor of my posts!
Why?
because the truth is right in front of your face!
You honestly and truly believe that Iran will not nuke Israel??

You try to deflect the argument by pointing out that the US has nuclear weapons and have used them.
Yet you don`t realize or purposely don`t understand that we used them to stop a most vile war that would have gone on for many, many years. Since then we have not used the at all!!

So what will be Iran`s excuse when they use nuclear weapons?
They were putting a stop to a war that had claimed many lives?
They were doing a pre-emptive attack....

ahh...I get it now.....as long they don`t go nuclear against the US , it ok...hmmm

I know why we used them, and that is a very complex debate.

Once again, you put assumptions about my knowledge at the forefront of your argument. You have a habit of this. I sit here and laugh at you, though.

There is precisely the same chance Iran will attack the US with nukes as they will Israel.

Maybe you have to think about that for a second, but please do.

 

[Abwx]

So the first understanding is:
Do they have the ability to create a bomb?
If not a second:
Is are they attempting to get to that level if not there
else a Third:
Why do they trying for the extra enrichment beyond peaceful power and medical purposes

Of course they have and for a long time , actualy it would
take them 1 month to get enough U235 using their 20%
enriched stock and 7 weeks if they start from 5% uranium,
if they really wanted to build nuclear devices it would be
done since last year or so at least...

The extra enrichment is due to their small research reactors
that work with 20% enriched uranium like most if not all
research reactors , it is far less costly to build a reactor
that use highly enriched uranium.

 

[zinfamous]

very wishful thinking...........what are you smoking?

I read from various sources.

I see you are incapable of this.

Wishful thinking, really? Even the most staunch neocon-teabagging-anti-arab-jingoists realize this truth about Iran's citizens.

You're two caught up in your flaming racism to see the truth before your eyes. What a sad existence you have, to be fed with such blind hate.

 

[Abwx]

I was stuck on the tech that they began, I believe, with the knowledge stolen by and sold by A Q Khan--pretty sure he is the one that got it to Iran (as he did Pakistan and NK).

At the time, what he was providing was very old knowledge, and yes, the technology was as old as was available, and required a significant amount of time to enrich enough uranium to create a single warhead.

Obviously, they've gotten better. I guess that is not surprising. For me, it hasn't been about if they already have the knowledge and know-how--they do. It's about their efficiency in getting there; the time it takes to create multiple warheads.

Iran is a country with a very young, very educated population in the city centers--particularly Tehran. Most of these people are, in fact, very much pro-western. The leaders are historically "crazy," no one denies that, but they are also where they are right now because of western-backed shenanigans post-WW2. Most can understand the distrust/anger you get from the leadership and how easily this story plays in the rural, primarily elderly villages; and yet despite all that, you have great distrust amongst the populace regarding their leadership. These people very much want what we have--they don't want to destroy us for these things, and they really don't want to destroy Israel for it (because that very much does mean the end of Iran. That is the only endgame in such a scenario, and everyone knows it)

Agree globally set apart the iranian leaders alleged crazyness , actualy thoses guys are not crazy at all , prove is where they headed the country scientificaly speaking and wasnt for the embargo they re enduring they would outmatch all the ME economies taken as a whole , there s no doubt that they will be this part of the world local economic centre , that s
all the challenge and the US has opportunisticly changed its stance,
an aknowledgment that both israel and saudi arabia will be relegated
to negligible quantities in a not so long future , not because the iranians
wants to bomb anybody but because the aim of this country is to get
the place they think they desserve as a craddle of civilization and set
apart China i see no other emerging country with such promising potential.

 

[Abwx]

There is precisely the same chance Iran will attack the US with nukes as they will Israel.

Finaly some truth ...

Of course the chance is 0........

 

[werepossum]

That has nothing to do with the orthodox rejection of Zionism, they believe the Jewish state is a violation of Jewish religious beliefs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haredim_and_Zionism

Got me there, I forgot about the ultra conservatives.

If President Obama got what he wanted, there WOULD be a bloody war in Syria.

LOL Game, set and match.

very wishful thinking...........what are you smoking?

He is correct, dude. A lot of younger Iranians (though by all means not all, and perhaps not a majority) are not inherently anti-Western. There's a big Iranian underground market in American movies and fashions.

One of the nicest people I've ever met was an Iranian, in college. Although to be fair, most of the Iranians were grade A dog squeeze.

 

[Jhhnn]

I missed the callout.

Guess we should just go on you plan.

"Hope"

PS Sanctions have been working.

Theres a reason a slightly more moderate guy was elected. And why Iran even approached the table. That reason is sanctions.

More harsher sanctions would have made Iran give up more, then oh... the nothing they did for this 'breakthrough'.

The Iranians' nuclear program is a point of national pride, extremely popular across all societal groups. Obviously, they've made some sacrifices. They're willing to do so in the face of sanctions & threats. They have grit, and they earned some respect.

As far as it goes, their production facilities have met IAEA standards, in general, as well. That also deserves some respect as to their intentions.

As the effects of the Bush years are wearing off, they've responded with changes of their own.

Like it or not, that's the way it is. They intend to move ahead with a lot more reactors. And they'll take the IAEA along, too, playing by the rules.

If we want stronger rules, we need to grant them legitimacy, like detente or Nixon's opening to China. There's only one way to get there, and that's it. period. As far as mainstream America goes, we're sick of war. There is no popular support for a war with Iran & the Obama Admin knows it.

They won't blink, but somebody has to, which means us, with the urging of our fellow 5+1 group. Everybody wants a deal.

I do hope that the Obama Admin has the sense to handle this with some skill. America will accept any truth that gives us reasonable & verifiable reassurance of Iran's compliance with a deal. Forget the rest. The truth would serve well. They're all in on their nuclear program, so we better make the best of it, because we won't be starting any shooting, nor likely will the Israelis, despite the bluster. The Iranians are too smart to give us any excuses that we don't already have, and those weren't even good enough for the Neocons.

The US only has one card to play, recognizing the Iranian program as legitimate, so we better play it for all it's worth. All other plays are foolish denial of reality.

 

[michal1980]

The Iranians' nuclear program is a point of national pride, extremely popular across all societal groups. Obviously, they've made some sacrifices. They're willing to do so in the face of sanctions & threats. They have grit, and they earned some respect.

As far as it goes, their production facilities have met IAEA standards, in general, as well. That also deserves some respect as to their intentions.

As the effects of the Bush years are wearing off, they've responded with changes of their own.

Like it or not, that's the way it is. They intend to move ahead with a lot more reactors. And they'll take the IAEA along, too, playing by the rules.

If we want stronger rules, we need to grant them legitimacy, like detente or Nixon's opening to China. There's only one way to get there, and that's it. period. As far as mainstream America goes, we're sick of war. There is no popular support for a war with Iran & the Obama Admin knows it.

They won't blink, but somebody has to, which means us, with the urging of our fellow 5+1 group. Everybody wants a deal.

I do hope that the Obama Admin has the sense to handle this with some skill. America will accept any truth that gives us reasonable & verifiable reassurance of Iran's compliance with a deal. Forget the rest. The truth would serve well. They're all in on their nuclear program, so we better make the best of it, because we won't be starting any shooting, nor likely will the Israelis, despite the bluster. The Iranians are too smart to give us any excuses that we don't already have, and those weren't even good enough for the Neocons.

The US only has one card to play, recognizing the Iranian program as legitimate, so we better play it for all it's worth. All other plays are foolish denial of reality.

I love it. Little Iran wont blink. So America has to fold.

If the deal truly limited what Iran can do. And the deal authorized true, random, anywhere inspections.

Then the USA might have gotten something. Instead, like you said. We blinked. Iran won.

In the end, you lib terrorist state sympathizers better pray your not wrong. Otherwise, the blood of millions will be on your hands... again.

 

[michal1980]

Of course they will have a say in the makeup of an inspection team. Including Israeli inspectors does not make the inspections more effective and it likely would have resulted in no deal happening. Not useful. Additionally, Israel was not party to these talks and it would be very strange to have inspections for a deal in part carried out by a country that wasn't part of the deal.

If Israel has specific intelligence about Iranian nuclear sites and activities they can share it with the inspectors. Their physical presence would not be required.

Why should Iran decided who inspects them, when, and where?

Are you on the left really this inept?

That's like letting the inmates run the prison.

 

[michal1980]

Oh looky all you appeasement backers.

Iran is already weaseling its way around the deal.

Took all of what? 2 days

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/27/us-iran-nuclear-arak-idUSBRE9AQ0U120131127

 

[JEDIYoda]

It takes a truly dumbed down ignert moron to not understand who is really trying to kill this country. The ones chanting "death to America" are the ones you vote for.

now that is idiotic and has nothing to do with this discussion other than you trying to derail the topic with asinine comments...

 

[JEDIYoda]

I read from various sources.

I see you are incapable of this.

Wishful thinking, really? Even the most staunch neocon-teabagging-anti-arab-jingoists realize this truth about Iran's citizens.

You're two caught up in your flaming racism to see the truth before your eyes. What a sad existence you have, to be fed with such blind hate.

The truth is that Iran has no intentions of using this technology for peaceful purposes! My sources are the people I speak to when I am traveling to various middle east countries.
The truth you cannot believe what you read and for every article you can find backing up your opinion I can find one backing up mine....stalemate!

You really need to get out and talk with the Iranians in Iran.....or even go to Saudi Arabia......ahhhh...I forgot you can learn just as much by reading about...lolol