Iran, six world powers clinch breakthrough nuclear deal

[werepossum]

Oh looky all you appeasement backers.

Iran is already weaseling its way around the deal.

Took all of what? 2 days

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/27/us-iran-nuclear-arak-idUSBRE9AQ0U120131127

Sweet Lord, didn't take long to get our answer. Still, if Obama is so mind-blowingly stupid and/or incompetent as to sign an agreement banning a reactor but allowing work to continue and components to be built to be installed later, who can blame the Iranians? It's like escaping prison after your dim witted jailer asks you to hold the key while he takes his nap. Okay, changing my mind, this is not a good thing.

Tell that to Eastern Europe - enslaved for 30-50 years

Yeah, that was the dumbest thing I have read in a while.

 

[fskimospy]

Why should Iran decided who inspects them, when, and where?

Are you on the left really this inept?

That's like letting the inmates run the prison.

There's no way anyone is this stupid. I get a feeling that you just don't understand how the world works very well. A basic ignorance of international relations is pretty prevalent in modern US conservatives but you are really taking the cake here.

Of course when two groups make a deal about an inspection regime both sides get input into the deal. Iran is not a prisoner, they are a state that we're making a deal with. No state on planet earth would ever allow completely unrestricted inspection of their territory by another power. I'm not aware of a single case of this happening in the entirety of human existence without someone losing a war.

So seriously, go learn something about the real world.

 

[michal1980]

There's no way anyone is this stupid. I get a feeling that you just don't understand how the world works very well. A basic ignorance of international relations is pretty prevalent in modern US conservatives but you are really taking the cake here.

Of course when two groups make a deal about an inspection regime both sides get input into the deal. Iran is not a prisoner, they are a state that we're making a deal with. No state on planet earth would ever allow completely unrestricted inspection of their territory by another power. I'm not aware of a single case of this happening in the entirety of human existence without someone losing a war.

So seriously, go learn something about the real world.

I'm not as stupid as you. Without access to all/any of Irans nuclear facilities you learn nothing. The inspections are worthless. Iran will show you only what they want to.

might as well not have inspections.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm not as stupid as you. Without access to all/any of Irans nuclear facilities you learn nothing. The inspections are worthless. Iran will show you only what they want to.

might as well not have inspections.

I find it highly unlikely that you have any understanding of Iran's nuclear facilities or the terms of the inspections. Please explain, using specifics, why the current situation makes inspections worthless. Refer to specific inspection sites, regimes, and means of circumvention.

What baffles me is why you try and make such strong and sweeping statements about something that you don't understand.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm not as stupid as you. Without access to all/any of Irans nuclear facilities you learn nothing. The inspections are worthless. Iran will show you only what they want to.

might as well not have inspections.

There's already a treaty in place, the current version of the NPT, and Iran is apparently in compliance wrt their production facilities & their reactors. What the 5+1 reasonably wants out of a deal is stronger IAEA provided protections against diversion of materials from their future reactors.

If the Iranians will provide the necessary access, the rest of it really doesn't matter. No diversion to create weapons grade materials, no nukes. We don't have to stick our noses into every corner of every Iranian military base to accomplish that.

 

[EagleKeeper]

If Iran was in compliance; there would not have been a need for sanctions in the first place.

Sanctions were put in because Iran was not in compliance; refused to try to comply and continually attempted to increase the margins of what was agreed to by the NPT.

Given the attempts to circumvent the NPT obligations; every effort needs to be made to ensure that no other "oops" are around.

 

[michal1980]

I find it highly unlikely that you have any understanding of Iran's nuclear facilities or the terms of the inspections. Please explain, using specifics, why the current situation makes inspections worthless. Refer to specific inspection sites, regimes, and means of circumvention.

What baffles me is why you try and make such strong and sweeping statements about something that you don't understand.

I can only speak as to what was printed in the press. Do you know something the public doesn't?

I already said why the inspections are bogus. They are limited to a few areas. Areas agreed to by Iran.

You don't have to be a genius to figure out that Iran would allow access only to those areas of its nuclear program where it has nothing to hide.

 

[michal1980]

There's already a treaty in place, the current version of the NPT, and Iran is apparently in compliance wrt their production facilities & their reactors. What the 5+1 reasonably wants out of a deal is stronger IAEA provided protections against diversion of materials from their future reactors.

If the Iranians will provide the necessary access, the rest of it really doesn't matter. No diversion to create weapons grade materials, no nukes. We don't have to stick our noses into every corner of every Iranian military base to accomplish that.

Wrong the sanctions were put in place because Iran wasn't in compliance. Your naivety is boundless.

 

[Jhhnn]

Wrong the sanctions were put in place because Iran wasn't in compliance. Your naivety is boundless.

Negative. Sanctions were put in place because Iran wasn't in compliance with US demands & protocols they never agreed to in the first place. Expect sovereign nations to balk when you try to change a mutually agreed upon treaty w/o their consent.

You couldn't back up that claim if you life depended upon it, but you'll continue to believe it anyway.

It doesn't change the current situation in the slightest, either. You're arguing in circles if you believe it does.

 

[fskimospy]

I can only speak as to what was printed in the press. Do you know something the public doesn't?

I already said why the inspections are bogus. They are limited to a few areas. Areas agreed to by Iran.

You don't have to be a genius to figure out that Iran would allow access only to those areas of its nuclear program where it has nothing to hide.

No, you just don't know much about what you're talking about. You realize that the areas agreed to aren't just randomly chosen and it's not like Iran can just pick up and ship large amounts of nuclear material without anyone noticing, right?

It's not like we don't know where their nuclear program is centered, you're acting like we are just searching blindly.

I strongly recommend that you go and actually learn something about this topic and international relations in general. Your comment about how Iran should just allow other countries unrestricted access to their whole country was baffling in its naivety.

 

[michal1980]

Negative. Sanctions were put in place because Iran wasn't in compliance with US demands & protocols they never agreed to in the first place. Expect sovereign nations to balk when you try to change a mutually agreed upon treaty w/o their consent.

You couldn't back up that claim if you life depended upon it, but you'll continue to believe it anyway.

It doesn't change the current situation in the slightest, either. You're arguing in circles if you believe it does.

Didn't know the IAEA and the UN = the USA.

 

[Jhhnn]

Didn't know the IAEA and the UN = the USA.

Pick, pick, pick.

I forgot that I have to be totally clear & utterly explicit when dealing with the believers, otherwise they'll try to wander off point. Any excuse will do.

My mistake. I really should have said "US demands & UN security council protocols they never agreed to in the first place", but you knew what I meant, anyway.

 

[Darwin333]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera

Worked before....

And why would we negotiate with someone who holds yearly celebrations of hating us?
Why would we negotiate with someone who has sworn destruction of one of our closest allies?
Why would we negotiate with someone who has sworn our destruction?

This is not going to end well...

Why do we care what they think of us?
Why would we be scared of a pissant nation like Iran that couldn't hit the US mainland with a friggen spitball?
Why exactly are you so scared of a poor assbackwards craptastic country like Iran?
Lastly, if you believe they are willing to use a nuke, which is effectively an invitation to have your entire country wiped out, why wouldn't they respond to our bombings with any and all unconventional attacks they can muster? They could surely smuggle a dirty bomb into the US, why wouldn't they as a reaction to us bombing the shit out of them if they don't give a fuck if they are annihilated or not?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Pick, pick, pick.

I forgot that I have to be totally clear & utterly explicit when dealing with the believers, otherwise they'll try to wander off point. Any excuse will do.

My mistake. I really should have said "US demands & UN security council protocols they never agreed to in the first place", but you knew what I meant, anyway.

you expect him to be perfectly clear...why not you??

 

[werepossum]

Negative. Sanctions were put in place because Iran wasn't in compliance with US demands & protocols they never agreed to in the first place. Expect sovereign nations to balk when you try to change a mutually agreed upon treaty w/o their consent.

You couldn't back up that claim if you life depended upon it, but you'll continue to believe it anyway.

It doesn't change the current situation in the slightest, either. You're arguing in circles if you believe it does.

Perhaps to educate us conservatives you could just list all the situations throughout history where you feel America is not at fault in your signature. Four lines should be plenty.

 

[Pens1566]

Wrong the sanctions were put in place because Iran wasn't in compliance. Your naivety is boundless.

And exactly which part of the NPT were they violating?

 

[rudeguy]

so Iran is saying that we are lying about the whole thing

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-deal-White-House-insists-agreed-agreed.html

And according to a national security advisor, nothing is agreed yet. So...there is really nothing and it doesn't look like there ever will be.

Please move on. The smoke and mirror show is over.

 

[AViking]

Isn't the dailymail a tabloid newspaper? I don't understand why you're using it as a source.

 

[rudeguy]

Isn't the dailymail a tabloid newspaper? I don't understand why you're using it as a source.

They also reported on 9/11. Does that mean that didn't happen either? What if they report that the sun comes up?


Weak retort is weak.

 

[fskimospy]

They also reported on 9/11. Does that mean that didn't happen either? What if they report that the sun comes up?

Weak retort is weak.

I think he's saying that their depiction of events may not be entirely accurate. For example, they appeared to be saying that uranium enrichment would INCREASE, but they appear to be talking about 5% enriched uranium. Generally we don't care too much about 5% enriched uranium. We care a great deal about 20% enriched uranium, of which half their stockpile is being diluted and further production prevented by the terms of the deal.

It's things like that where they are not necessarily reporting wrong facts but are drawing deliberately sensationalist conclusions that makes them not a very reliable source.

 

[Abwx]

And exactly which part of the NPT were they violating?

None.

 

[michal1980]

http://freebeacon.com/iran-announces-second-nuclear-reactor/

haaa haaaa haaa LMAO.

 

[michal1980]

And exactly which part of the NPT were they violating?

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/R40094.pdf

 

[rudeguy]

http://freebeacon.com/iran-announces-second-nuclear-reactor/

haaa haaaa haaa LMAO.

well...

 

[fskimospy]

well...

Well what? So far we have stories from a tabloid and an ultra right wing "news" site.

I'd be interested to hear about what is actually going on from a credible news source, unfortunately I haven't seen one yet.