Iran Ships to Patrol Atlantic

[Londo_Jowo]

the iraninan navy is not that big nor that skilled or have the logistics network to pull it off.

Funny they were in the 80's and the 90's.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I have served in the Navy and been involved in performing that task, although only as a linesman not as a helmsman. (when you're the new guy they make you do all the shitty jobs, haha) Still, I knew all the helmsmen on my ship and it is one of the more difficult maneuvering tasks any large ship undertakes. Not only is there a requirement that both ships maintain an identical course and speed regardless of differing currents, wave action, etc, but there is also the Venturi effect to deal with. This effect causes two ships traveling close to one another to encounter a suction effect that will attempt to draw them into a collision with one another. (these collisions have happened many times)

Not only that, but as others have mentioned Iran must maintain a supply network over thousands of miles. So you got some food, great. How about that rare pump that runs the cooling system for your primary radar? Do they have one of those in Cuba? What about those specific bearings for your engine that you can't get off the shelf? Military parts are almost always nonstandard because they operate in unique conditions. Supplying a ship at sea is not so simple as fueling up your uncle's boat.

One of the US's greatest strengths is our worldwide logistical capability. We CAN supply our ships anywhere on earth relatively well, and this is the envy of the world.

As the helmsman all you had to do was maintain your heading and the engine room maintained the shaft speed. I've been on the bridge, amid ships, engine room, and after steering during unrep.

Yep good ole milspec parts that could be easily replaced by parts bought from Radio Shack (I know, I used Radio Shack parts in a voltage regulator on one of the ship's main generators to prevent missing movement.) Bearings can be rebabbited, we had this done in Bahrain in the early 80's. Rare pumps on radar? Cooling water pumps onboard ship always had a backup. Typical Botswain's Mate (deck Ape) acting like they know something about the ship's engineering and auxiliary plants.

 

[fskimospy]

As the helmsman all you had to do was maintain your heading and the engine room maintained the shaft speed. I've been on the bridge, amid ships, engine room, and after steering during unrep.

Yep good ole milspec parts that could be easily replaced by parts bought from Radio Shack (I know, I used Radio Shack parts in a voltage regulator on one of the ship's main generators to prevent missing movement.) Bearings can be rebabbited, we had this done in Bahrain in the early 80's. Rare pumps on radar? Cooling water pumps onboard ship always had a backup. Typical Botswain's Mate (deck Ape) acting like they know something about the ship's engineering and auxiliary plants.

Shows how much you know.

BM's are almost never the linesmen during unrep, they do the other jobs. Linesmen are made up out of whoever the other ship's divisions want to send to crew the unrep team. (ie: your new guys and fuckups) Typical engineer with an inferiority complex vs. us mean old topsiders, eh? A simple google search for collisions during unreps will show you numerous occasions where this has occurred. If you think all that needs to be done is maintain heading and speed, you obviously weren't paying attention.

I was my divisional repair parts PO and an electronics tech, and I know plenty about 1.) fixing voltage regulators and 2.) what sort of parts you can get off the shelf. Cooling systems most certainly do NOT always have a backup. (our SPS-49 lacked a backup skid for example)

Maybe for old ass engineering equipment you can pull some parts off the shelf from radio shack to fix them, but the vast majority of real electronics on the ship aren't going to be rehabbed by a visit to the mall. I'd love to see you go fix SPY or SPS-49 with parts from Radio Shack. They start selling well tuned klystrons there recently or something?

 

[OCGuy]

If Iran does do this i do not think they will go to the east coast. I bet they will go to Venezuela and make short patrols in the gulf. If something does happen to one of their ships, the Venezuela Navy would help them out. I think Iran is a lot more friendly with Venezuela than with Cuba so i don't think any Iranian war ships will be welcomed in cuba, just my opinion and am probably wrong.

By the time Iran actually has the ability to support ships over here, (5-10 years?) Venezeula will most likely have gone through a "regime change."

Chavez is on his death bed, and I can't say Im sad about it. Actually it will be a glorious day for the Venezuelan people when that asshole kicks.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I made it as far as being the Ship's Electical Division Chief and qualified Engineering Officer of the Watch/Inport Engineering Officer. As a junior petty officer I operated the midships tensioning hoist during unrep so I'm fully aware of the people that manned the lines. Boatswain's Mates were in charge of the midships unrep station on all the ships (Cruiser, 3 Destroyers, and a Frigate) I was on during my 12 year career.


I can tell you joined the Navy after they started teaching blackbox theory. I was taught how to troubleshoot to the component level and was qualified micro-miniature repair. You can get diodes (including Zener), capacitors, and resistors off the shelf, radio shack has a large assortment of these items.

 

[OCGuy]

It's so easy, that's why only a few countries have the capability. Haha.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

It's so easy, that's why only a few countries have the capability. Haha.

Which countries are those?

 

[fskimospy]

I made it as far as being the Ship's Electical Division Chief and qualified Engineering Officer of the Watch/Inport Engineering Officer. As a junior petty officer I operated the midships tensioning hoist during unrep so I'm fully aware of the people that manned the lines. Boatswain's Mates were in charge of the midships unrep station on all the ships (Cruiser, 3 Destroyers, and a Frigate) I was on during my 12 year career.

I can tell you joined the Navy after they started teaching blackbox theory. I was taught how to troubleshoot to the component level and was qualified micro-miniature repair. You can get diodes (including Zener), capacitors, and resistors off the shelf, radio shack has a large assortment of these items.

Hahaha, riiiight. Then why did you assume I was a BM just because I pulled a line? Great, you qualified EOOW. You were in for 12 years so I hope you would have. Everyone E-5 and above on my shop was expected to qualify either EOOW or CSOOW.

I was 2M qualified as well (unlike engineers, most ET's are) and I've worked at defense contractors since then who all work down to the component level on everything. That being said, you are trying to equate engineering electronics to combat systems electronics and that's a huge mistake. Combat systems electronics are orders of magnitude more complex, and huge amounts of these components cannot be bought off the shelf. This isn't some engine control scheme, it's a multi megawatt radar system operating in the multiple Ghz range. For RF systems of those specs, within the signal path and with a lot of the control circuitry you can't just swap out components with a soldering iron however you feel like it anyway, timings are so tight that the length of the wire runs matter.

Regardless of all that. Collisions during unreps are not infrequent even in the US Navy, and we are the recognized experts in it. It is most certainly a large concern for less capable fleets.

 

[trenchfoot]

 

[Londo_Jowo]

If I'm not mistaken that's the Canucklestan Navy in one of the Great Lakes.

 

[OCGuy]

Which countries are those?

I assume you know what the term "Blue-water" means?


"These are navies that have successfully used the capabilities of their blue-water navies to exercise control at high seas and from there have projected power into other nations' littoral waters.[10]

The French Navy (Marine Nationale) has the ability to deploy an aircraft-carrier-based task group and maintains a Continuous At Sea Deterrence included in the Force Océanique Stratégique (Strategic Oceanic Force). The Amphibious assault capability is provided by the Mistral-class amphibious assault ships. France also has a wide range of naval deployments throughout the world.[11]

The United Kingdom has recently retired the Harrier jets that fly from the nation's aircraft carriers,[12] leaving the Royal Navy temporarily without a fixed wing carrier strike capability.[13] Current plans will see the regeneration of this capability in 2020.[14] The navy currently maintains one task group based around an amphibious assault ship. The Royal Navy uses both HMS Ocean and HMS Illustrious in the Landing Platform, Helicopter role as well as deploying the two Albion-class amphibious transport docks as the center of a task group. The United Kingdom operates a Continuous At Sea Deterrence policy through its Vanguard-class ballistic missile submarines utilizing Trident missiles. The Royal Navy also supports a number of standing commitments worldwide on a continuous basis.[15] The Royal Navy Submarine Service operates an active force of seven fleet submarines, which operate globally.

The United States Navy maintains eleven Carrier Strike Groups (one centered on USS Enterprise, the remainder on Nimitz-class carriers), of which six are deployed or ready for deployment within 30 days, and two ready for deployment within 90 days under the Fleet Response Plan (FRP). The US Navy also maintains a posture of Continuous At Sea Deterrence (CASD) through the Trident submarine-launched ballistic missiles on Ohio-class submarines. It also maintains a continuous deployment of Expeditionary Strike Groups that embark a Marine Expeditionary Unit with an Aviation Combat Element of Landing Helicopter Docks and Landing Helicopter Assault.[16]"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-water_navy

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Regardless of all that. Collisions during unreps are not infrequent even in the US Navy, and we are the recognized experts in it. It is most certainly a large concern for less capable fleets.

I'm aware there have been some unrep accidents, I've never witnessed one. On of the ships I was on had to perform an emergency break away due to rogue wave in the North Atlantic.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I assume you know what the term "Blue-water" means?


"These are navies that have successfully used the capabilities of their blue-water navies to exercise control at high seas and from there have projected power into other nations' littoral waters.[10]

The French Navy (Marine Nationale) has the ability to deploy an aircraft-carrier-based task group and maintains a Continuous At Sea Deterrence included in the Force Océanique Stratégique (Strategic Oceanic Force). The Amphibious assault capability is provided by the Mistral-class amphibious assault ships. France also has a wide range of naval deployments throughout the world.[11]

The United Kingdom has recently retired the Harrier jets that fly from the nation's aircraft carriers,[12] leaving the Royal Navy temporarily without a fixed wing carrier strike capability.[13] Current plans will see the regeneration of this capability in 2020.[14] The navy currently maintains one task group based around an amphibious assault ship. The Royal Navy uses both HMS Ocean and HMS Illustrious in the Landing Platform, Helicopter role as well as deploying the two Albion-class amphibious transport docks as the center of a task group. The United Kingdom operates a Continuous At Sea Deterrence policy through its Vanguard-class ballistic missile submarines utilizing Trident missiles. The Royal Navy also supports a number of standing commitments worldwide on a continuous basis.[15] The Royal Navy Submarine Service operates an active force of seven fleet submarines, which operate globally.

The United States Navy maintains eleven Carrier Strike Groups (one centered on USS Enterprise, the remainder on Nimitz-class carriers), of which six are deployed or ready for deployment within 30 days, and two ready for deployment within 90 days under the Fleet Response Plan (FRP). The US Navy also maintains a posture of Continuous At Sea Deterrence (CASD) through the Trident submarine-launched ballistic missiles on Ohio-class submarines. It also maintains a continuous deployment of Expeditionary Strike Groups that embark a Marine Expeditionary Unit with an Aviation Combat Element of Landing Helicopter Docks and Landing Helicopter Assault.[16]"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-water_navy

I guess someone needs to tell the other countries that are not listed as being a "Blue Water" Navy they can't send ships to visit the US or other ports that requires them to sail the "Big Blue Oceans". Funny that Russia is not on that list.

 

[trenchfoot]

If I'm not mistaken that's the Canucklestan Navy in one of the Great Lakes.

Yup. I pinched it a long while ago and always remembered I had it buried in some online archive somewhere because I thought it was so funny. I just PS'd it a tad to make a statement about how large a threat the Iranian Navy is to our homeland security.

 

[boochi]

Didn't pay much attention during geography class eh?

Yes, Macamus is an idiot.

 

[Nebor]

Yes, Macamus is an idiot.

You freakin' racist. :hmm:

 

[OCGuy]

I guess someone needs to tell the other countries that are not listed as being a "Blue Water" Navy they can't send ships to visit the US or other ports that requires them to sail the "Big Blue Oceans". Funny that Russia is not on that list.

Nobody needs to tell them, I am sure they know already. These are common military facts, not opinion.

Russia's navy is a joke since the fall of the USSR.

Sorry, it is on you to prove how easy it is for this to happen, since all signs point to: "It isn't"

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Nobody needs to tell them, I am sure they know already. These are common military facts, not opinion.

Russia's navy is a joke since the fall of the USSR.

Sorry, it is on you to prove how easy it is for this to happen, since all signs point to: "It isn't"

The Russian Navy may be a joke but for many years they had spy trawlers in the US Atlantic seaboard. Imagine that a trawler, how did they as far as the US east coast? There's no way these trawlers could carry enough fuel to get from Russia to the US coast.


The Iranian Navy was outfitted and taught by the US Navy in the 70's, they were capable of Unrep during that time frame. They have since purchased ships from the Russians and Saudis, these ships are outfitted/capable of underway replenishment.

Maybe you should take the time to see what equipment is required to perform an Unrep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underway_replenishment

 

[davmat787]

How many of you that seem to think underway replenishment is so hard and complicated have served in the Navy and been involved in performing this task?

You are probably referring to me, among others. Perhaps we have different visions or definitions of underway replenishment. So to clear this up, what is your idea of the kind of underway replenishment that the Iranian Navy is potentially capable of?

Could very well be we are both correct as we are arguing from different definitions. Would not be the first time this has happened around here.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Please look at the wiki link I just posted in the reply above. Refueling and transferring food stores/supplies. If the supply ship has helicopters they can transfer the food store via this method.

As I've stated time and time again, the US Navy already trained the Iranians on performing underway replenishment. They now have French made frigates and an older British made supply ship so they have the capability. Their biggest obstacle is where to obtain fuel/supplies before transiting from the Mediterranean (Syria?) to where they would obtain fuel/supplies in the Atlantic (Venezuela?)

 

[EagleKeeper]

Please look at the wiki link I just posted in the reply above. Refueling and transferring food stores/supplies. If the supply ship has helicopters they can transfer the food store via this method.

As I've stated time and time again, the US Navy already trained the Iranians on performing underway replenishment. They now have French made frigates and an older British made supply ship so they have the capability. Their biggest obstacle is where to obtain fuel/supplies before transiting from the Mediterranean (Syria?) to where they would obtain fuel/supplies in the Atlantic (Venezuela?)

Training 30 years ago would not be available today unless kept frequent.
Iran has not been going out and practicing.

If they were to carry forward this "threat"; they would have to do a 2-3 week haul from the Eastern Med to South America (friendly anti-US) ports of call.

 

[Lemon law]

What a somewhat stupidity from Iran, but what do we expect from Achmadinejad?

And now that I have seen what Iran has to challenge us, a mini destroyer with maybe a two inch popgun I have to be glad that Rudy terror terror Guillani may be joining the 2012 POTUS race. No sooner than I have finally lost my Russian RED under my bed, now I have a Iranian Mullahs under my bed to worry about.

That tears it, no more me being Mr. Nice guy, I am going to saw off all the legs off all my beds. That way I can squish em, and get a good nights sleep for a change.

 

[OutHouse]

The Russian Navy may be a joke but for many years they had spy trawlers in the US Atlantic seaboard. Imagine that a trawler, how did they as far as the US east coast? There's no way these trawlers could carry enough fuel to get from Russia to the US coast.


The Iranian Navy was outfitted and taught by the US Navy in the 70's, they were capable of Unrep during that time frame. They have since purchased ships from the Russians and Saudis, these ships are outfitted/capable of underway replenishment.

Maybe you should take the time to see what equipment is required to perform an Unrep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underway_replenishment

Dude just stfu! we get it you served in the Navy and fucking know everything and everybody else on this plant is wrong. jesus fucktards like you remind me why i didnt do 20. The admirals on TV talking about this shit even say Iran cant do it you want to know why because THEY DONT HAVE THE FUCKING LOGISTICS, TRAINING OR EQUIPMENT!!!!

god Damn where is the Tylenol!

 

[davmat787]

Please look at the wiki link I just posted in the reply above. Refueling and transferring food stores/supplies. If the supply ship has helicopters they can transfer the food store via this method.

As I've stated time and time again, the US Navy already trained the Iranians on performing underway replenishment. They now have French made frigates and an older British made supply ship so they have the capability. Their biggest obstacle is where to obtain fuel/supplies before transiting from the Mediterranean (Syria?) to where they would obtain fuel/supplies in the Atlantic (Venezuela?)

I was thinking more along the lines of transferring things like fuel, fresh water, removal of gray water/waste, etc. Of course they might just dump that stuff, which I would assume is illegal for environmental reasons. I can't imagine how many helicopter hops it would take to transfer just the liquids for a mission as long as this. I am not disagreeing in the sense it can't be done, I just don't think Iran has it in them. Maybe you are right, I just don't think so. *shrug*

Just think of the weight in fluids alone.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I was thinking more along the lines of transferring things like fuel, fresh water, removal of gray water/waste, etc. Of course they might just dump that stuff, which I would assume is illegal for environmental reasons. I can't imagine how many helicopter hops it would take to transfer just the liquids for a mission as long as this. I am not disagreeing in the sense it can't be done, I just don't think Iran has it in them. Maybe you are right, I just don't think so. *shrug*

Just think of the weight in fluids alone.

The ships have evaporators that produce fresh water and the waste water is pumped overboard at sea.