Iran deal reached

[CitizenKain]

But if we don't go to war with Iran, how can conservatives help Haliburton increase their profits?

 

[nickqt]

Saudi Arabia is upset over this deal?

It's probably a good deal then.

 

[Jhhnn]

What's really happened in all this is that Iran has parlayed their nuclear program into something much bigger- an end to our policy of forced regime change & recognition of the legitimacy of their govt. That's a reversal of long standing policy from the Reagan era. It's huge. That & the sanctions that went with it held back their development for nearly 40 years.

It's also perfectly clear that we've cock-blocked Bibi & the Israeli contingent of the Neocons.

With that, they have no need for nuclear weapons. Without Uncle Sam breathing down their necks, they'll probably figure out that they have no need for their own hardliners.

Neither do we, come to think of it.

 

[Jhhnn]

If the deal is so good, then why is Obama threatening Congress on it?

Quote the alleged threat.

 

[Jhhnn]

Saudi Arabia is upset over this deal?

It's probably a good deal then.

Medieval monarchy gets twisted? Bibi blows a gasket & ends up raving in tongues & frothing at the mouth?

Tears in my eyes as big as horseturds. No, really!

 

[Jaskalas]

Saudi Arabia is upset over this deal?

It's probably a good deal then.

Medieval monarchy gets twisted? Bibi blows a gasket & ends up raving in tongues & frothing at the mouth?

Tears in my eyes as big as horseturds. No, really!

So the idea of a nuclear arms race is something you two celebrate?

 

[Jhhnn]

So the idea of a nuclear arms race is something you two celebrate?

The idea of a nuclear arms race is a ridiculous boogeyman. If we can dissuade Iran, we can obviously do the same with the rest other than our backstabbing little buddy, Israel.

 

[glenn1]

What's really happened in all this is that Iran has parlayed their nuclear program into something much bigger- an end to our policy of forced regime change & recognition of the legitimacy of their govt. That's a reversal of long standing policy from the Reagan era. It's huge. That & the sanctions that went with it held back their development for nearly 40 years.

It's also perfectly clear that we've cock-blocked Bibi & the Israeli contingent of the Neocons.

With that, they have no need for nuclear weapons. Without Uncle Sam breathing down their necks, they'll probably figure out that they have no need for their own hardliners.

Neither do we, come to think of it.

South Africa didn't have in play "Uncle Sam breathing down their neck" or any of the other reasons you mentioned and yet still went nuclear. Iran has other considerations as well, like their desire to be a bigger regional power. Plus when it comes to nuclear weapons you sometimes need to throw out the "rational self-interest" motivators because pursuing them often isn't a rational decision.

That being said this deal is a good thing for both sides. The U.S. is clearly not going to use military force against Iran at this point over a weapons program we can't prove in detail. Thus we're better off getting whatever deal concessions we can even if Iran is likely to cheat on many of them.

 

[nickqt]

So the idea of a nuclear arms race is something you two celebrate?

I don't want Iran to have nuclear weapons. I also don't want Saudi Arabia to have nuclear weapons.

I think this deal makes it more likely that Iran won't be able to produce a nuclear weapon.

You can disagree whether this deal makes it more likely or less likely that Iran produces a nuclear weapon, but you disagreeing with me doesn't then mean that I want Iran AND Saudi Arabia to have nuclear weapons.

You have some crossed wires somewhere.

 

[theeedude]

Wow, Republicans super pissed we won't have an Iran war coming up.

 

[Subyman]

Indeed, and that what sane conservative brains should excel at and what liberals ought to respect. Demonstrate for me where todays Republican conservatives are sane.

A liberal conservative balance is trust but verify. If the starting gate is suspect and verify conformational bias will work its wonders.

Both sides have conformational bias. One seeking not to look like they had wool pulled over their eyes and the other looking to prove they were right to be suspicious. As I touched on, its a balance between both. I'm not for either side, I think a moderate approach is best.

 

[Blackjack200]

Thus we're better off getting whatever deal concessions we can even if Iran is likely to cheat on many of them.

Can you cite a history of Iran cheating on international treaties?

 

[JEDIYoda]

And Netanyahu already has a Twitter account going, bashing this deal in Farsi?

As well he should be bashing this "deal".....

 

[sandorski]

Iran deal=North Korea deal from 1990's version 2.0

Iran is nothing like North Korea.

 

[JEDIYoda]

It seems BHO and kerry caved on the "anytime/anywhere" inspections. So this "deal" is a pretty worthless one IMO.

agreed!! Somebody caved!

 

[hal2kilo]

As well he should be bashing this "deal".....

Thanks for your objectivity. Something about that avitar......

 

[JEDIYoda]

Win-win, for EU-USA-Iran, if Iran lives up to their end of the bargain, which I think they will.
__________________

hardly -- WIN -- IRAN Win -- IRAN!! Your thinking that this has anything to do with Iran`s gas exports! One rhetoric is another mans truth!!

 

[cabri]

Quote the alleged threat.

Link

 

[JEDIYoda]

Oh, the emoticons have already come out. How enlightening. -- YES!! How...

I've worked on sanctions and security policy for many years (fyi - and this is unofficial commentary) so linking me to the State Department website doesn't really show anything to me except for the fact that you're being rather one-sided, with your scrutiny applying only to Iran. <-- another internet expert...

Where are the Executive Orders and designations regarding Israel's continual violation of international law? Ever heard of the MEPP? Israel's government never sponsored terrorism? Here's my answer to my own question: LOL!<-- why bring Israel into this? You just lost your argument! So we have another Israel basher.....figures -- what with you being pro-Iranian!

In short, rational self-interest trumps all. The final unraveling of economic sanctions against Iran will increase Iranian government revenue generation (who own many of the oil/gas interests) by billion+ USD per DAY. And if they are smart enough to use this to rebuild Iran's economy, they can become a regional powerhouse, especially diversifying their energy supply away from fossil fuels and using nuclear power instead. --- actually define rational? Whose self interest? You make this out to be some big thing when in fact Iran dictated the terms throughout the negotiation process....
Better quality of life for their citizens, more investment in their universities, more openness from foreign diplomats - heck, they could even start their own positive Iranian propaganda campaigns as the Israelis do about themselves.

oh give me a break....a better quality of life for the Iranians?? You must have drank a lot of that Koolaid!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

Thanks for your objectivity. Something about that avitar......

truth hurts! So sorry that you feel hurt!

 

[Moonbeam]

Both sides have conformational bias. One seeking not to look like they had wool pulled over their eyes and the other looking to prove they were right to be suspicious. As I touched on, its a balance between both. I'm not for either side, I think a moderate approach is best.

Trust but verify reduces the risk of conformational bias. A conformational bias toward trust is offset by verification and a conformational bias toward suspicion is offset by trust. Seeking not to look like one had the wool pulled over their eyes is a CBD which is less common among liberals. The biggest threat to balance comes from the right at this time and place in history. This is a statistical fact verified by science. Culpability does not fall equally on both sides. That is verifiable, not partisan. While conservatives and liberals are capable of bias liberals are better able to adjust their bias via factual information that shows where they are wrong. Better does not mean perfect but better to a measurable degree.

 

[Vic]

Wow, Republicans super pissed we won't have an Iran war coming up.

What they're really pissed about is the prospect of low oil prices going into next year's election.

 

[norseamd]

It seems BHO and kerry caved on the "anytime/anywhere" inspections. So this "deal" is a pretty worthless one IMO.

No.

There are inspections anywhere but they have to be approved by a council of Iran and the other negotiating countries. So a popular vote of 7 representatives from each country involved in this deal.

 

[theeedude]

What they're really pissed about is the prospect of low oil prices going into next year's election.

It's mostly the use of diplomacy instead of the military-industrial complex to resolve conflicts.

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/14/8960653/iran-nuclear-deal-conservatives-diplomacy

 

[Blackjack200]

The Republicans in congress do not have enough votes to override any veto.

So why does Obama need to put forth the challenge/threat - to provide cover for the Democrats and/or threaten them?

Link

He threatened a veto because the house and senate republican majorities will probably reject it?

It's mostly the use of diplomacy instead of the military-industrial complex to resolve conflicts.

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/14/8960653/iran-nuclear-deal-conservatives-diplomacy

How, you might wonder, could Barack Obama be so naive? And what a strange coincidence that his naiveté was shared by David Cameron, Angela Merkel, and François Hollande such that a completely preposterous deal could be agreed upon despite possessing holes that are both massive and invisible to everyone other than American conservative activists.

lol, buuuurn.