Iran deal reached

[Jaskalas]

do you like strawman?

So the options are War, Status Quo, Peace Deal.

You reject the Peace Deal and pretend War isn't the option.
What do you think you're selling other than the Status Quo, where Iran goes nuclear?

 

[theeedude]

'Some 10 Thousand' Protesters Rally In Times Square Against Iran Nuclear Deal

Do they want war?

Translation: some ten thousands of people in Times Square on vacation, and some protesters against Iran deal.

 

[Jhhnn]

Mike Huckabee is running for President of Israel apparently

It was a good morning for Mike Huckabee - The Washington Post

He responded within two hours, doubling down on his criticism of the Obama administration’s Iran policy Monday morning: He refused to walk back his controversial suggestion that the president’s proposed nuclear deal with the country “will take the Israelis and march them to the door of the oven,” again defending those remarks to reporters -- and sent a fundraising e-mail to supporters titled, "Obama directly attacks me."

"What's 'ridiculous and sad' is that President Obama does not take Iran's repeated threats seriously. For decades, Iranian leaders have pledged to 'destroy,' 'annihilate,' and 'wipe Israel off the map' with a 'big Holocaust,’” Huckabee said Monday. “'Never again' will be the policy of my administration, and I will stand with our ally Israel to prevent the terrorists in Tehran from achieving their own stated goal of another Holocaust."

"I do solemnly swear, that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the nation of Israel.”

As I pointed out in another thread it's a total flipflop from his 2008 position.

Like all things Republican, just follow the money. I'm confident that Tom Cotton clued him in as to how & where to get some.

Most of America wants this agreement, despite the raving & fear mongering. We're willing to try the easy way, to give Peace a chance.

If it puts more pressure on our Israeli friends to solve their internal problems with the Palestinians, so be it. If it puts pressure on KSA & the gulf sheikdoms to become more modern societies that's not a bad thing either.

 

[Jhhnn]

Translation: some ten thousands of people in Times Square on vacation, and some protesters against Iran deal.

My first reaction was "Only 10K? In NYC, the heart of Jewish culture & population in America?"

American Jews must not think it's too horrible a deal or there would have been a much bigger crowd.

 

[hal2kilo]

Charles Schumer...where are yoooouuuuu?

That really is the question. If Schumer does not support Obama's veto threat, then all bets are off.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

That really is the question. If Schumer does not support Obama's veto threat, then all bets are off.

He's making a very difficult decision...this should be interesting.

 

[Jhhnn]

That really is the question. If Schumer does not support Obama's veto threat, then all bets are off.

It takes 67 votes to override a veto. Dems have 46, so I doubt it'll come to that.

It's a great opportunity for a filibuster.

 

[IGBT]

reach a deal with a mob that abides by sharia law equals no deal for the infidel. But the kerry clown is too dense to realize this.

 

[Jhhnn]

reach a deal with a mob that abides by sharia law equals no deal for the infidel. But the kerry clown is too dense to realize this.

Why are you talking about KSA & the gulf sheikdoms like that? They're our pals!

 

[IronFist17]

Iran deal is horrible both for America and the Middle East. It will destabilize the region since Saudi Arabia and Iran are the enemies while both these countries are our allies. One of those two will surely betray us.

 

[Monk5127]

The deal seems reasonable. However, coming from one of the other P5 +1 countries the idea that just because 'murica wants to throw it out and expects the rest to follow along is frankly insulting.

 

[norseamd]

The deal seems reasonable. However, coming from one of the other P5 +1 countries the idea that just because 'murica wants to throw it out and expects the rest to follow along is frankly insulting.

America is a lot more diverse than many in the world including Americans might think it is as a country.

Muricans only make up a significant minority of America.

 

[Murloc]

reach a deal with a mob that abides by sharia law equals no deal for the infidel. But the kerry clown is too dense to realize this.

do you realize that Saudi Arabia is worse than Iran in this regard?

And that the US has promised to defend the territorial integrity of such a country?

Iran deal is horrible both for America and the Middle East. It will destabilize the region since Saudi Arabia and Iran are the enemies while both these countries are our allies. One of those two will surely betray us.

Iran is not an US ally and it will not become one just because of the deal. It's back to normal enemies, without the sanctions.
Remember that there is Israel that conditions the US foreign policy, and to Israel Iran is perceived like a threat (and it is since it finances Hezbollah, which decreases the military might of Israel through its control of territory north of its borders), while Saudi Arabia is not a direct threat.

The side the US would pick in a conflict is already set, and this will avoid an all-out confrontation between Iran and KSA.

Proxy conflicts were already in full swing before the deal. Iraq has been won over by Iran years ago. The only other arab force on the ground besides shia-controlled government and shia militias is the IS which the US can't support obviously.
The houthis are in control of a big part of Yemen and KSA airstrikes seem to do nothing conclusive.

The deal seems reasonable. However, coming from one of the other P5 +1 countries the idea that just because 'murica wants to throw it out and expects the rest to follow along is frankly insulting.

If the US congress throws the deal in the trash and chooses to keep the sanctions on, imho the Iranians should stick to the deal.
The UN sanctions will be removed anyway and european companies will get involved in their oil business without competition from US companies.
The US is a big country but if it's only them applying the sanctions on such a big and far away country, they are effectively doing no damage except to themselves.

Muricans only make up a significant minority of America.

definitely not since they can threaten the deal in parliament. This means they're about half of the population.

Also the fact that not all americans are the same is known, as shown by polls that show a gap in the reputation abroad of the US as a state and of americans as single persons. Few people like certain US policies but most are okay with the american people themselves. 'Muricans aren't likely to travel abroad anyway.

 

[werepossum]

The deal seems reasonable. However, coming from one of the other P5 +1 countries the idea that just because 'murica wants to throw it out and expects the rest to follow along is frankly insulting.

I don't expect the other nations will kill the deal if our Senate refuses to ratify. We've already seen that all these nations would accept or even prefer that Israel cease to exist, and it's obvious that everyone wants to do business with Iran. The most immediate effect of a more prosperous Iran will be increased funding for terrorist groups attacking Israel and that isn't going to deter anyone except us. As we have already dropped the sanctions we're going to drop for the immediate future, Senate ratification is a moot point in my opinion. What's done is done, it only remains to be seen how Iran reacts and whether our "partners" care to have any teeth in reacting.

 

[Jhhnn]

The most immediate effect of a more prosperous Iran will be increased funding for terrorist groups attacking Israel and that isn't going to deter anyone except us.

Fear monger often?

What is it about Israel that gives them a pass for conduct we'd condemn from anybody else?

Why should we favor them? Because they've admittedly lied to us about "seeking peace" from the beginning?

 

[cabri]

The most immediate effect of a more prosperous Iran will be increased funding for terrorist groups attacking Israel and that isn't going to deter anyone except us.

Fear monger often?

What is it about Israel that gives them a pass for conduct we'd condemn from anybody else?

Why should we favor them? Because they've admittedly lied to us about "seeking peace" from the beginning?

You seem to think that Iran has been peaceful all these years with respect to funding Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria and the PLO.

You have a better understanding of Iran than it's neighbors?

If a group is against anyone that is not Shia, Iran has had a check waiting for them to pick up

 

[Jhhnn]

You seem to think that Iran has been peaceful all these years with respect to funding Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria and the PLO.

You have a better understanding of Iran than it's neighbors?

If a group is against anyone that is not Shia, Iran has had a check waiting for them to pick up

Pitifully lame. Iran acts like us? Amazing!

 

[Oyeve]

My first reaction was "Only 10K? In NYC, the heart of Jewish culture & population in America?"

American Jews must not think it's too horrible a deal or there would have been a much bigger crowd.

A lot of american jews dont give too much of a rats ass about isreal or iran. Only the isreali jews in the us give a crap. I live in a mostly hasidic community and they pretty much dont give a crap what happens down the block let alone the ME.

 

[chucky2]

He's making a very difficult decision...this should be interesting.

It's not that difficult. Obama will volunteer to help him secure something with President Billary. Support granted...

 

[werepossum]

You seem to think that Iran has been peaceful all these years with respect to funding Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria and the PLO.

You have a better understanding of Iran than it's neighbors?

If a group is against anyone that is not Shia, Iran has had a check waiting for them to pick up

What an embarrassing typo!

Jhhnn think! That's rich!

 

[Jhhnn]

What an embarrassing typo!

Jhhnn think! That's rich!

So insightful. So on-point in your usual "don't have anything to offer but derision" way.

It's not reasonable to think that Iran should treat her friends any differently than we do.

Just because our dick is bigger doesn't mean theirs doesn't work.

Maybe, just maybe, this agreement might lead to a situation where both sides would rather keep it in their pants. Or do Repubs need to keep this trumped up issue around for the same reasons as all their other trumped up issues- as distraction?

Or do they really want to create another display of American Exceptionalism like Iraq?

 

[norseamd]

definitely not since they can threaten the deal in parliament. This means they're about half of the population.

Also the fact that not all americans are the same is known, as shown by polls that show a gap in the reputation abroad of the US as a state and of americans as single persons. Few people like certain US policies but most are okay with the american people themselves. 'Muricans aren't likely to travel abroad anyway.

Would say more like 30% to maybe at most 40% of the population. However Muricans tend to vote more often and regularly than many lefties, centrists, and minorities.

 

[theeedude]

Israel has nuclear weapons.
So the question as far as prospect of a nuclear war between Iran and Israel is not whether Iran is nice or mean. It's whether Iran is suicidal or not. And it's pretty clear that both Iran as a culture, and the current regime in power are anything but suicidal, and there won't be a nuclear war whether Iran has a nuke or not. Just like there wasn't a nuclear war between US and USSR. Mutually Assured Destruction.

 

[ivwshane]

Israel has nuclear weapons.
So the question as far as prospect of a nuclear war between Iran and Israel is not whether Iran is nice or mean. It's whether Iran is suicidal or not. And it's pretty clear that both Iran as a culture, and the current regime in power are anything but suicidal, and there won't be a nuclear war whether Iran has a nuke or not. Just like there wasn't a nuclear war between US and USSR. Mutually Assured Destruction.

Pretty much this. I can't see how anyone could see it any differently unless they have some cartoonish vision of Iran.

 

[cubby1223]

Israel has nuclear weapons.
So the question as far as prospect of a nuclear war between Iran and Israel is not whether Iran is nice or mean. It's whether Iran is suicidal or not. And it's pretty clear that both Iran as a culture, and the current regime in power are anything but suicidal, and there won't be a nuclear war whether Iran has a nuke or not. Just like there wasn't a nuclear war between US and USSR. Mutually Assured Destruction.

It's about how well the government guards their weapons.

It's also about how possession of nuclear weapons are used as very effective propaganda tool to embolden groups in many other ways. See Russia as an example of what nuclear weapons can motivate people to do despite the weapons never actually being used.

But then again we've gone over this same discussion time and time and time again. You're stance is nuclear weapons won't be detonated. My (and others too) stance is nuclear weapons will likely be used to destabilize neighbors. Your stance doesn't actually make any counterpoint to that. We have an actual real-world example of a nation who uses the threat of nuclear weapons to successfully destabilize and exert control over neighboring countries.

The purpose of having nuclear weapons is not to use them in battle, it's to (1) eliminate attacks from foreign entities, (2) motivate people through propaganda, and (3) greatly reduce the size and scope of responses to anything the nation's leaders want to do.