iPhone 4: Consider the following...

[Deeko]

The iPhone's tie-in to AT&T is absolutely an issue, but I don't understand why people keep bringing it up like it is some new development. It has been that way for oh, three years now. Everyone knows that if you want an iPhone, you have to have AT&T (or get one unlocked). For people who live in areas where AT&T has poor reception, that sucks, but there is nothing to do about it....except wait.

You're right...but I think the point of this thread was to say "these were iPhone issues that are still valid with v4." I guess this thread was intended to beat a dead horse. Ask the OP.

 

[zsdersw]

Yes - and Android phones were clearly capable of running Exchange in version 1.0, but Google still didn't add it for several releases.

That's not a hardware feature. Copy/paste and multitasking are far more basic and hardware-related.

Look, like I said, Apple absolutely was very slow in adding a lot of common features (especially their curious lack of MMS), however, they are mostly caught up now, and they are not alone in that one. Android, WebOS, WinMo, they all lacked important features at some point or another.

None of them are perfect, but then again, only one can be legitimately compared to a deity by looking at its user base: the iPhone.

The higher the expectations, the higher the stakes, and the bigger the letdown when imperfections surface.

 

[TheWart]

You're right...but I think the point of this thread was to say "these were iPhone issues that are still valid with v4." I guess this thread was intended to beat a dead horse. Ask the OP.

Perhaps it was the tone with which he started his post (again, saying those who thought the iphone looked cool are obviously people who bow to steve jobs and are distracted by shiny things...wtf?)

I guess this thread has about as much value as if I started a post on "Warning, HTC Android phones are not what they appear" and then in the OP proceed to complain about the lack on internal storage and how you have to buy a microsdhc card just to put your stuff on the phone....Oh yeah, I would have to start the post by saying anyone who likes to tinker with their android phone obviously lives in their mom's basement...

 

[zsdersw]

You're right...but I think the point of this thread was to say "these were iPhone issues that are still valid with v4." I guess this thread was intended to beat a dead horse. Ask the OP.

It was meant as a reminder to those who forget because Jobs dangled something shiny in front of them.

 

[Deeko]

That's not a hardware feature. Copy/paste and multitasking are far more basic and hardware-related.

Now you're just splitting hairs. Come on. You want to poll people on the importance of features, and put copy/paste vs Exchange? Which do you think will hurt adoption more?

(and yes, I'm aware that the iPhone didn't have Exchange in its first year either. My point is that Android lacked things at release too. Seriously - I don't think you used the version of Android that came with the G1. It barely resembles Froyo)

None of them are perfect, but then again, only one can be legitimately compared to a deity by looking at its user base: the iPhone.

The higher the expectations, the higher the stakes, and the bigger the letdown when imperfections surface.

Meh. I might agree with you about the fanaticism of the fanbase, but this is a technical forum, I'm not going to get into a fanboy vs antifanboy debate. That has no place here.

 

[TheWart]

It was meant as a reminder to those who forget because Jobs dangled something shiny in front of them.

I guess I share some of the blame for feeding it..but:

 

[zsdersw]

I guess I share some of the blame for feeding it..but:

We'll always have Paris.

 

[Bateluer]

Nobody really cares. Especially when the battery life is far better than the competition.

I care, greatly, no way I am going to purchase a device with a battery that I can't replace myself. Especially since Apple batteries usually die around ~18 months. The iPhone 4 may have a larger battery, but it remains to be seen what its actually battery life will be. All we have are Apple's marketing, dubious at best.

That's true of any technology.

There's a difference between something like the nook that had extra features, like rudimentary web browsing and social networking added through firmware updates and the iPhone. On the nook, those extra features weren't the devices primary function, they weren't advertised, and they don't exist on the competition. On the iPhone, those features turned off are often present and well developed on the competition.

That's also true of many cell contracts.

No debate on that one, get the excellent Incredible or Moto Droid and you're locked to Verizon. Get the Evo and your locked to Sprint. The difference? Getting locked into a cell contract where you actually can actually make calls.

Seriously - I don't think you used the version of Android that came with the G1. It barely resembles Froyo)

Very true, Android 1.0 was very rough around the edges. The difference between Android and iOS? Android has grown, polished itself, and added a plethora of new features and capabilities. iOS is still just as locked down and limited as it ever was.

 

[zsdersw]

Now you're just splitting hairs. Come on. You want to poll people on the importance of features, and put copy/paste vs Exchange? Which do you think will hurt adoption more?

Who said anything about which was more important to increasing adoption of the platform?

(and yes, I'm aware that the iPhone didn't have Exchange in its first year either. My point is that Android lacked things at release too. Seriously - I don't think you used the version of Android that came with the G1. It barely resembles Froyo)

I'm aware of what Android lacked (and still lacks).

I'm also aware of what Blackberry lacked (and still lacks).

I'm also aware of what WM lacked (and still will lack, when it comes out later this year).

 

[Deeko]

Who said anything about which was more important to increasing adoption of the platform?



I'm aware of what Android lacked (and still lacks).

I'm also aware of what Blackberry lacked (and still lacks).

I'm also aware of what WM lacked (and still will lack, when it comes out later this year).

The point is that you're clearly splitting hairs to attack the iPhone. Copy/paste is NOT a hardware feature, just because you use input to do it doesn't make it a hardware feature. And while its nice to have and annoying not to have, its not nearly as big a deal as other features that various platforms lack/lacked. Your point might make more sense if they had a GPS but no GPS-enabled software or something. Otherwise you're just talking yourself in circles for the sake of anti-Apple trolling.

Yes, there will be Apple fanboys that incorrectly claim this phone has no faults.
Yes, there will be Apple fanboys that grossly exaggerate the features of this phone vs other phones
Yes, you are just as bad as them with this thread and your continuing tirades about "software updates".

Tell me...regardless of what the iPhone OS lacked in the past, what are they intentionally withholding now? Especially something tied to "hardware capabilities" since that's the narrow subset you think is worthy of scorn.

 

[Qbah]

1. I don't mind. My 3GS has a very good battery life now (easily a day) and I have absolutely no problems with the battery. None of the people I know do either. The iPhone 4 has an even longer battery life, so I would care even less.

2. I jailbreak anyway and there are amazing things available in Cydia.

3: I'm in the EU. My carrier is actually excellent (3.dk). Tethering's for free (with several data caps - from 100MB to 20GB a month).

I really really like the look of the new iPhone. And its dimensions. The screen is amazing - together with an extremely fluid and responsive UI I don't really see why I should not choose it over something else. And there's an app for pretty much everything. Together with jailbreaking, the phone does everything I ever needed and more.

I'm not a fan of Apple (and especially their policies). But they push amazing hardware with a near-perfect phone UI. And for the shortcomings of Apple's stance I have jailbreaking.

 

[zsdersw]

Copy/paste is NOT a hardware feature, just because you use input to do it doesn't make it a hardware feature.

Yes it is. It's a basic computing function--to temporarily store things in memory for repeated use in any program.

Tell me...regardless of what the iPhone OS lacked in the past, what are they intentionally withholding now? Especially something tied to "hardware capabilities" since that's the narrow subset you think is worthy of scorn.

That remains to be seen, since we don't yet know everything that the iPhone 4 or version 4 of the OS can do.

 

[Bateluer]

Together with jailbreaking, the phone does everything I ever needed and more.

Sacrilege! How dare you violate the word of the Almighty Jobs with a jailbreak!? Ye shall burn in hell for your blasphemy.

 

[zsdersw]

One other thing I didn't get into is the jailbreaking. While, yes, you can do that on Android by booting the phone differently and get root access, it's typically done for different reasons than people jailbreak their iPhones. People get root access on Android phones usually because they want to get around a limitation in the current software version by installing a slightly different version of whatever Android release is compatible with their device. People jailbreak their iPhones to get around Apple's various restrictions.

It's the whole "closed system" vs. "open system" debate.

One more thing: can you get insurance on the iPhone 4? I doubt it...

 

[dwell]

Sacrilege! How dare you violate the word of the Almighty Jobs with a jailbreak!? Ye shall burn in hell for your blasphemy.

This "almighty Jobs" shit is today's equivalent of typing "M$". As soon as I see it, I discredit the poster as a fantard.

 

[Deeko]

Yes it is. It's a basic computing function--to temporarily store things in memory for repeated use in any program.

ehhh, that's a reach. It technically already has that data in "memory" when you're viewing it on the screen. The ability to put a piece of text (a very specific, non-arbitrary type of data from the computer's perspective) into a special temporary storage that you then can put into a text box (another very specific, non-arbitrary container) is in no way a "basic computing function", its a UI feature.

This is worthless anyway, as they've had copy/paste for a year now. You're trying to pull from the past as though it were the present. Your point of this thread is that "these things are still wrong", and clearly, that is not the case with copy/paste. My point is what others have made...no platform is perfect, and all of them have lacked features at some point...including ones much, much more important (no matter how "basic" you want to make them seem) than copy/paste.

That remains to be seen, since we don't yet know everything that the iPhone 4 or version 4 of the OS can do.

This is a massive cop out and completely discredits your argument. Knowing things that iOS4 adds - like multitasking, multiple exchange accounts, etc - and knowing what iPhone OS 3 had, are there any features you think they're lacking? Especially hardware-related features. If you can't answer this, you might as well go up and edit your post and remove that point, because its irrelevant.

 

[Deeko]

People get root access on Android phones usually because they want to get around a limitation in the current software version

People jailbreak their iPhones to get around Apple's various restrictions.

....

Seriously, give it up.

In one case, they're modifying the system to get around an OS/carrier/manufacturer restriction. In the other case, they're modifying the system to get around an OS/carrier/manufacturer restriction.

For example...you can root Android and install Cyanogen which has wifi tether. Or, you can jailbreak an iPhone to get multitasking. Regardless of what you think about "open" vs "closed" systems, you're doing the same thing! If Android manufacturers were really so "open" like you're claiming they'd give you root access from the start.

 

[QueBert]

Very true, Android 1.0 was very rough around the edges. The difference between Android and iOS? Android has grown, polished itself, and added a plethora of new features and capabilities. iOS is still just as locked down and limited as it ever was.

iOS isn't limiting, I play games, I create word documents, I view PDF's, I VNC into my clients computers to fix problems. And I have a much higher selection of applications to download as opposed to the Android Marketplace, and yes. I have a Moto Droid so I know what I'm talking about. Even if the numbers are evening out. The quality is >>>>> for Apple. What exactly is limited? There's nothing I'm left wanting to do that I can't. I got multitasking with Backgrounder that's really the only thing, honestly I've only used it 2 times, and that was just to try it out. Please tell me something worth doing I can do on my Droid I couldn't have on my iPhone.

One more thing: can you get insurance on the iPhone 4? I doubt it...

Do you know why you can't get insurance on iPhones? Probably the value, I recently sold my ooooold 1G iPhone for about what a few month old Moto Droid was going for on CL. The iPhone was almost 4 years old. If I kept my Droid for almost 4 years and sold it, I'd be lucky to get $50 for it, and that might be pushing it.

 

[CTrain]

As much as I hate Apple and their dictatorship way of operating, you're trying way too hard here. Give it up already.

 

[Deeko]

Very true, Android 1.0 was very rough around the edges. The difference between Android and iOS? Android has grown, polished itself, and added a plethora of new features and capabilities. iOS is still just as locked down and limited as it ever was.

That's really not true. Android has improved at a very fast pace - but that doesn't mean iOS hasn't improved too. Since the original iPhone, they've added the App Store, Exchange support, copy/paste, multitasking, MMS, video recording, better Exchange integration (more full security features, multiple accounts), and probably more stuff I'm forgetting since I don't use one.

No, it has not moved at Android's breakneck speed - but to say it is "as locked down and limited as ever" is really just not true. I think people forget what iPhone OS 1 and 2 looked like.

 

[zsdersw]

ehhh, that's a reach. It technically already has that data in "memory" when you're viewing it on the screen. The ability to put a piece of text (a very specific, non-arbitrary type of data from the computer's perspective) into a special temporary storage that you then can put into a text box (another very specific, non-arbitrary container) is in no way a "basic computing function", its a UI feature.

Yes it is a "basic computing function" that the iPhone's hardware has always been capable of. It's been a function available on computers since the 1970s.

This is a massive cop out and completely discredits your argument. Knowing things that iOS4 adds - like multitasking, multiple exchange accounts, etc - and knowing what iPhone OS 3 had, are there any features you think they're lacking? Especially hardware-related features. If you can't answer this, you might as well go up and edit your post and remove that point, because its irrelevant.

Multimedia features, in particular, come to mind. The phone's hardware is fast enough to play more formats than just what's available through iTunes.

 

[Deeko]

Yes it is a "basic computing function" that the iPhone's hardware has always been capable of. It's been a function available on computers since the 1970s.

Meh. Again, its not a "basic computing function", its a UI feature, and yea, one they should have added earlier, but its totally asinine to try to call that out as a "feature the hardware can do but software can't" as if its somewhat special.

And, again, you're wasting your breath because they've had it for a year now, so to say "lolz don't get iPhone 4, they didn't have copy paste until 2009" is absurd.

Multimedia features, in particular, come to mind. The phone's hardware is fast enough to play more formats than just what's available through iTunes.

I'll defer to iPhone owners for specifics, but I'm pretty sure there are apps out there capable of doing a wider array of formats. And this is another silly attempt to portray a purely software function as a "hardware" feature the software lacks. If they had a built-in hardware divx decoder but no software to use it, that would count in your argument.

 

[zsdersw]

In one case, they're modifying the system to get around an OS/carrier/manufacturer restriction. In the other case, they're modifying the system to get around an OS/carrier/manufacturer restriction.

For example...you can root Android and install Cyanogen which has wifi tether. Or, you can jailbreak an iPhone to get multitasking. Regardless of what you think about "open" vs "closed" systems, you're doing the same thing! If Android manufacturers were really so "open" like you're claiming they'd give you root access from the start.

They're not the same thing. There's a difference between restrictions like using apps outside of those available from Apple's app store and missing-but-coming-soon feature "restrictions" like adding wifi tethering.

 

[sourceninja]

I'm torn. On one hand apple's new phone fixes everything I've bitched about my iphone not being able to do (and all the reasons I jailbroke my phone). The hardware sounds wonderful on paper and the device looks great. This is the iphone I wanted 2 years ago when I bought my iphone.

On the other hand, apple itself is my issue. Their forced use of an app store prevents me from using things i really want to use on my phone. Things like google voice/latitude, etc. Things android phones can do. Also, do I want to spend over 100 bucks a year just to write apps for my own personal use with the iphone. With android I can write apps and put them on my website or phone without the app store.

So I have a decision to make. Is a yearly developer fee and a few applications worth getting a nexus one in july, or should I get an iphone 4.

 

[cheezy321]

Jesus, these apple haters are *REALLY* grasping at straws.

According to this thread:

1. iPhones battery dies and becomes unusable after 18 months (I guess someone has to notify me - a person with a 2 year old 2G iphone - that it shouldn't be working!)

2. The iPhone cannot even make a simple phone call due to how bad AT&T's network is

3. The HTC Evo is SO. MUCH. BETTER. than the iPhone


4. Android fanboys are now just as bad as Apple fanboys