Interesting thought on abortion/miscarriages

[TheSiege]

Say somehow life was defined as the point of conception. And that abortion was ruled illegal and fetuses are protected and all that jazz. Wouldn't every time a miscarriage happens there would need to be a police investigation? I mean a life would be lost right? I am not saying I advocate one way or another, but it seems like it would be an unintended consequence. Or is that just too ridiculous to believe that could happen?

 

[nehalem256]

Is there a police investigation every time someone dies now?

 

[TheSiege]

When a minor dies, yes. As far as I know, or at least an autopsy

 

[nehalem256]

When a minor dies, yes. As far as I know, or at least an autopsy

And I assume that would be based on the fact that 10 year olds don't tend to just drop dead.

It is however fairly common for miscarriages to occur.

It seems to me this is just an issue that paranoid pro-choicers would bring up.

 

[TheSiege]

And I assume that would be based on the fact that 10 year olds don't tend to just drop dead.

It is however fairly common for miscarriages to occur.

It seems to me this is just an issue that paranoid pro-choicers would bring up.

Well thats my point I guess, it could come up, maybe a miscarriage after 8 weeks or something along those lines. I can just see some unintended consequences from it all

 

[desy]

Hey if they had their way they'd charge expecting mothers who had a glass of wine for serving alcohol to minors

 

[JTsyo]

How about for fertility treatments when they make 10 embryos at once knowing only 3 or 4 will take? If you're successful with the first one, should you be forced to try with the others too? find surrogates to carry them to term? Currently any extra can be destroyed.

 

[ivwshane]

Your concerns are real, republicans in multiple states are pushing through legislation that essentially bans abortions and they are doing it through budget bills, amendments to unrelated bills and other various "sneaky" means. One bill I read actually changed the definition of pregnancy (this was in a budget bill) which has a ton of unforeseen consequences. They also continue to put up legislation that puts the government in between you and your doctor, ie requiring ultra sounds even when unneeded or requiring doctors to read statements before performing procedures. They are even pushing for requiring doctors or clinics to lose government funding just for talking about abortions.

These are some of the most disgusting tactics I have ever seen used to push an agenda.

If you were to take every meme the right has used to paint the democrats in a negative light you would find that the republicans are the ones that fit these caricatures.

Big government? They, as a party support the patriot act and spying in the name of terrorism.
Wasteful government? Who just added billions of dollars of pork to the immigration bill that just passed the senate? (adding pork to bills is common, whats less common is specifically saying not only that the government must purchase a particular number of something but they also have to buy it from a particular manufacture).
Intrusive government? They have put up legislature to require ultrasounds, required doctors to read unnecessary statements to patients, threatened to remove funding if doctors talk about certain things, required teachers to lie to students about abortion in sex Ed classes.
Anti free market? See the issue where republicans are blocking tesla from selling directly to consumers.

Etc, etc, etc...

 

[etrigan420]

Hopefully they don't investigate my shower drain...

 

[brandonb]

Life does begin at conception. I don't need a legal manual to tell me that. That is when the unique DNA is formed. But anyways.

No, I don't think a miscarriage needs to be investigated if abortions were outlawed. The main reason is this: The point of outlawing abortion is to prevent idiots from using abortion as a form of birth control. There was a Seattle study done for women who aborted. The conclusion was this: Less than 10% of abortions that were performed were because of what I would consider legit reasons for abortion. 90% is because "I didn't have the money", "Baby daddy left me", "I didn't want the responsibility", "I was too young." Etc etc etc.

The reason people want to make abortion illegal is to force people to use their brains before they go and create a baby in which needs to be destroyed. How many parents would be in jail if they killed their child at 3 years old for the exact same reasons above? Why is it that it's still a fetus somehow makes it ok? Because it's just a fetus? It's just stupidity.

I know when I have a sex, the result can be a baby. If I'm not prepared for that, I either 1) don't have sex, 2) use birth control. Option 3) abort should not even be on the list of items. if choice #2 was used, and resulted in a baby. Well! I guess I rolled the dice and lost. But again, abortion should not be an option. Time to man up.

If you can just get rid of your child because your partner broke up with you or left you should not be a reason to eliminate your child. And if I remember right, that was over 50% in the survey results. If we were talking about a dog that was adopted, it even sounds ridiculous, and that is a pet. "I gave away my dog to the humane society because my bf broke up with me."

I don't think most people who want to outlaw abortion care much about the 10%, they care about the 90%...

 

[ivwshane]

Life does begin at conception. I don't need a legal manual to tell me that. That is when the unique DNA is formed. But anyways.

No, I don't think a miscarriage needs to be investigated if abortions were outlawed. The main reason is this: The point of outlawing abortion is to prevent idiots from using abortion as a form of birth control. There was a Seattle study done for women who aborted. The conclusion was this: Less than 10% of abortions that were performed were because of what I would consider legit reasons for abortion. 90% is because "I didn't have the money", "Baby daddy left me", "I didn't want the responsibility", "I was too young." Etc etc etc.

The reason people want to make abortion illegal is to force people to use their brains before they go and create a baby in which needs to be destroyed. How many parents would be in jail if they killed their child at 3 years old for the exact same reasons above? Why is it that it's still a fetus somehow makes it ok? Because it's just a fetus? It's just stupidity.

I know when I have a sex, the result can be a baby. If I'm not prepared for that, I either 1) don't have sex, 2) use birth control. Option 3) abort should not even be on the list of items.

If you can just get rid of your child because your partner broke up with you or left you should not be a reason to eliminate your child. And if I remember right, that was over 50% in the survey results. If we were talking about a dog that was adopted, it even sounds ridiculous, and that is a pet. "I gave away my dog to the humane society because my bf broke up with me."

I don't think most people who want to outlaw abortion care much about the 10%, they care about the 90%...

The only idiot I see is the one that thinks people use abortion as a form of birth control.

 

[brandonb]

The only idiot I see is the one that thinks people use abortion as a form of birth control.

Oooo that clever. I haven't see this one before!

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Say somehow life was defined as the point of conception. And that abortion was ruled illegal and fetuses are protected and all that jazz. Wouldn't every time a miscarriage happens there would need to be a police investigation? I mean a life would be lost right? I am not saying I advocate one way or another, but it seems like it would be an unintended consequence. Or is that just too ridiculous to believe that could happen?

If life was defined as such then everyone who dies would need to be frozen because at SOME point we would find a way to fix them.

It's actually the same thing exactly, before week 25 the fetus is EXACTLY as much alive as a clinically dead born person and if we want to change one, we need to be consistent.

Next up, everyone who is dead is now alive again.

 

[ivwshane]

Oooo that clever. I haven't see this one before!

Lucky for us your opinion doesn't mean shit and the highest court in the land has already ruled abortion legal and is a privacy issue, which means you can get the fuck out of people's decision on the matter

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Life does begin at conception.

Then life ends when with life support for any amount of time (including mechanical heart and an oxygenizer) the last two cells die.

That could take centuries for every human being.

How do you define human life? Two living human cells or a conscious mind?

Please consider what you're suggesting because the consequences would be dire if you want to redefine human life completely.

 

[Patranus]

The only idiot I see is the one that thinks people use abortion as a form of birth control.

So what percentage of abortions are elective?

 

[ivwshane]

So what percentage of abortions are elective?

So elective now means a form of birth control? Ask a women if they would rather have been on any form of birth control or have an abortion. It's not an easy choice nor is it one made in a passing thought.

 

[Patranus]

So elective now means a form of birth control? Ask a women if they would rather have been on any form of birth control or have an abortion. It's not an easy choice nor is it one made in a passing thought.

That is exactly what it is.

If the woman uses the pill (IUD, ect) 100% per instructions and the man uses a condom per the instructions a pregnancy simply will not happen.

Now if the woman is not on the pill or the man fails to use a condom then yes, it is being used as a form of birth control as you didn't fully utilize birth control during your sex act.

 

[bradly1101]

There was a Seattle study done for women who aborted. The conclusion was this: Less than 10% of abortions that were performed were because of what I would consider legit reasons for abortion. 90% is because "I didn't have the money", "Baby daddy left me", "I didn't want the responsibility", "I was too young." Etc etc etc.

Have you seen some of the kids born to very poor people, women left alone, etc.? Around here they often end up in violent, criminal gangs that become their missing family or father figure.

Some people made an avoidable mistake and know they just can't properly raise a child. As long as alcohol is legal that mistake will be repeated forever.

Those unacceptable reasons for abortion you cite seem acceptable to me.

 

[ivwshane]

That is exactly what it is.

If the woman uses the pill (IUD, ect) 100% per instructions and the man uses a condom per the instructions a pregnancy simply will not happen.

Now if the woman is not on the pill or the man fails to use a condom then yes, it is being used as a form of birth control as you didn't fully utilize birth control during your sex act.

Lol. Apparently you've never had sex before. Nothing is 100% certain and mistakes do happen to people who are responsible.

Go back to your bubble where only things you can think of happen.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Lol. Apparently you've never had sex before. Nothing is 100% certain and mistakes do happen to people who are responsible.

Go back to your bubble where only things you can think of happen.

He's right, you just keep changing the subject dipsheit and you'll end up somewhere at some point where you can pretend you were correct.

Just shut the FUCK up and stop embargoing yourself. "embargoing" was supposed to be embarrassing but it fits well enough, doesn't it you daft wise and beautiful woman?

 

[brandonb]

Have you seen some of the kids born to very poor people, women left alone, etc.? Around here they often end up in violent, criminal gangs that become their missing family or father figure.

Yup. Those types of people have no responsibility. And their kids pay the price. Either in the womb or not.

Some people made an avoidable mistake and know they just can't properly raise a child. As long as alcohol is legal that mistake will be repeated forever.

Those unacceptable reasons for abortion you cite seem acceptable to me.

That's fine. We can have a difference in opinion. If abortion wasn't so easy of an "out" for people. Then maybe people will be forced to as I call it 'grow up.'

 

[Retro Rob]

Lol. Apparently you've never had sex before. Nothing is 100% certain and mistakes do happen to people who are responsible.

Go back to your bubble where only things you can think of happen.

Actually, he's quite right.

My wife and I have been using BC since we've been married and no sign of a child. Of course nothing is full-proof. But just because something isn't full proof doesn't mean you don't bother using it, and 99% is a pretty sure bet, again, if properly used, that pregnancy is pretty much a non-issue.

It seems you're the one who never had sex or you'd know this.

 

[glenn1]

Say somehow life was defined as the point of conception. And that abortion was ruled illegal and fetuses are protected and all that jazz. Wouldn't every time a miscarriage happens there would need to be a police investigation? I mean a life would be lost right? I am not saying I advocate one way or another, but it seems like it would be an unintended consequence. Or is that just too ridiculous to believe that could happen?

Depends on who the miscarriage happens to. If it was a black woman, no one cares about dead black kids and it would be a non-issue along with the thousands of dead gang members annually. If it's a yuppie white couple, the entire resources of a CSI department will probably be unleashed in an investigation.

 

[brandonb]

Then life ends when with life support for any amount of time (including mechanical heart and an oxygenizer) the last two cells die.

That could take centuries for every human being.

How do you define human life? Two living human cells or a conscious mind?

Please consider what you're suggesting because the consequences would be dire if you want to redefine human life completely.

If these two cells were found by a rover on Mars, would it be called life or not? I can imagine an image on CNN that shows some room at NASA with people jumping up and down saying they found life. I didn't say there was a consciousness to it or not. A brain-dead person is life, but not consciousness. A 1 month old baby is life, but are they really self aware and conscious? Not really. Where do you draw the line? At birth? At conception? When the fetus is in the 2nd trimester? 1 year of age?

I say life begins at conception, right now its defined when the fetus exits the vagina. But a baby will die without its mother. What happens 1 day before birth? It's not alive? At some point, people will get it. When people decide to take responsibility for their actions.