Interesting things developing over at ABT

[SirPauly]

Why don't you tell Apooppin that too when you're over there?

There could be peace if he didn't call people stupid and get personal.

I have!

 

[NIGELG]

I have!

Thanks....I don't appreciate being called stupid on forums where I am not a member but still support by visiting a lot of times almost every single day.

Civility is good but if I'm attacked I will hit back.

 

[SirPauly]

Here is the post:

http://alienbabeltech.com/abt//viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25715&start=160#p75008

The only point I have is maybe holding back on calling out members as shills specifically! I think it is courageous to try to make sure our community is free of shills from any company -- nVida, AMD, Intel or any other technology company but one may need to be more careful on accusing members without any evidence except being pro-company or biased. Balance and objectivity are indeed so rare and when anyone chooses a product for a window-of-time, there is some level of pro bias for choosing. And at times, potentially, one sees their choice disrespected, defenders defend -- all part of forum lore.

I've been personally accused of being a 3dfx shill, ATI shill and a nVidia shill -- personally didn't like it and find it demeaning and disrespectful based on I enjoy these technologies, enjoy to share views with others, investigate new technologies, light up like a Christmas tree with anything that improves upon immersion, quality and gaming experience potential.

To call out members as shills, suspected shills without facts of shilling -- where does it end? Anyone that is pro nVidia or pro AMD a shill?

 

[Zanovar]

Thanks....I don't appreciate being called stupid on forums where I am not a member but still support by visiting a lot of times almost every single day.

Civility is good but if I'm attacked I will hit back.

Hahah,christ comedy sketch in this,you visit his,he vivsits here.a weird romantic comedy in this.whos gonna back?5 k will cover it.

 

[RussianSensation]

You are in the wrong thread...you need to be here:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2287709

No I am in the right thread. ABT members discuss stuttering but ignore stuttering of NV cards that existed just as long as they did on AMD cards. They close their eyes to benchmarks that were done by TR in all their previous reviews where NV stutered/680 lost in smoothness to HD7970Ghz. All of this they ignored for convenience.

Same story when it comes HD7970's awesome overclocking performance. The same people also ignored this but overclocked GTX470s/480/580:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1322119/12-11-vs-310-33

That's how ABT operates. They ignore that stuttering was also an issue on NV cards and in general stuttering is game/game engine dependent. There is no rule that fits all. This is not something that has always been on AMD cards as they insinuate.

 

[Lonbjerg]

No I am in the right thread. ABT members discuss stuttering but ignore stuttering of NV cards that existed just as long as they did on AMD cards. They close their eyes to benchmarks that were done by TR in all their previous reviews where NV stutered/680 lost in smoothness to HD7970Ghz. All of this they ignored for convenience.

Same story when it comes HD7970's awesome overclocking performance. The same people also ignored this but overclocked GTX470s/480/580:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1322119/12-11-vs-310-33

That's how ABT operates. They ignore that stuttering was also an issue on NV cards and in general stuttering is game/game engine dependent. There is no rule that fits all. This is not something that has always been on AMD cards as they insinuate.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ....

(get it now?)

 

[RussianSensation]

You did get that I'm only talking about multi-gpu?
You compared single-GPU (7970) with multi-GPU (590 and 690) and insinuated that apopping or whoever it is you quoted there should have noticed microstuttering on the 590 too, according to the graphs you posted. And that is wrong, because those graphs don't tell the whole truth in mGPU.

Framemetering is - afaik - for AFR only. When I'm talking about framemetering, I'm referring to mGPU.

Huh? The person whom I quoted said AMD cards exhibited stuttering for years but NV cards did not. I just showed you that GTX590 stutters using identical testing TR used in HD7950 vs. GTX660Ti review. I also linked a bunch of benchmarks that showed GTX670/680/570 exhibiting stutter in other games like BF3 and Arkham City that was worse than AMD's cards.

So I showed you multiple scenarios where NV cards stuttered more in both multi-GPU and single GPU scenarios. You have all the data I posted to analyse. It's all there. NV and AMD cards both stutter and each can stutter more than the other depending on the game. While it is true that without Radeon Pro AMD mGPU card stutter more, this has nothing to do with the assertions being made at ABT forum regarding extrapolating a single HD7950 vs GTX660Ti review on the whole to all AMD cards.

It also contradicts the notion that micro-stuttering is an AMD only problem for mGPUs. GTX590 and 690 still both stutter. If you look at BF3 testing, GTX690 still stutters more than HD7970 does. So if you aren't happy with HD7970 micro-stutter, then GTX690 stuttering would be even worse. That's the point I made. NV bots at ABT ignore this, even then TR itself shows GTX690 stuttering more in Crysis 2.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ....

(get it now?)

Yes, you contributed nothing to the discussion. I get it. So when I post something that you don't like, you have no response. What's next, you are going to call me a paid shill again? Not even sure why you still post at AnandTech when we can read all your posts at ABT and it's kinda obvious.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Huh? The person whom I quoted said AMD cards exhibited stuttering for years but NV cards did not. I just showed you that GTX590 stutters using identical testing TR used in HD7950 vs. GTX660Ti review. I also linked a bunch of benchmarks that showed GTX670/680/570 exhibiting stutter in other games like BF3 and Arkham City that was worse than AMD's cards.

So I showed you multiple scenarios where NV cards stuttered more in both multi-GPU and single GPU scenarios. You have all the data I posted to analyse. It's all there. NV and AMD cards both stutter and each can stutter more than the other depending on the game. While it is true that without Radeon Pro AMD mGPU card stutter more, this has nothing to do with the assertions being made at ABT forum regarding extrapolating a single HD7950 vs GTX660Ti review on the whole to all AMD cards.

So this thread lost your interest:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2287709

And you come to save people in this post...by turning it into this thread?:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2287709

You are not even funny...ZZZz.zzzZZZZZZZZZzzZZZzZZZZzZZZZZZZZZzZZZZZZ

This thread is about small egos and forums wars...did you read the OP...or are you just on auto-pi..ZZZZzzzzZZZZzzzZZZz....

 

[NIGELG]

Here is the post:

http://alienbabeltech.com/abt//viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25715&start=160#p75008

Good post....but did he listen?Did he respond?Look at his posts today and you will have the answers.

 

[RussianSensation]

So this thread lost your interest:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2287709

And you come to save people in this post...by turning it into this thread?:

I came here because what Lavaheadache pointed out is clear contradiction that appopin made. He said he was first fine with micro-stutter and now he isn't. Also, I commented on how that thread at ABT is a waste of time by pointing out specific post that highlights how they chose to ignore stuttering on NV cards.

Keep diverting my point without reading my posts and how they relate to that thread's members' comments. I guess you also never noticed stuttering on your GTX580, right? You are saying it was never a problem, because only AMD cards stutter in games? :whiste:

 

[thilanliyan]

So this thread lost your interest:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2287709

And you come to save people in this post...by turning it into this thread?:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2287709

You are not even funny...ZZZz.zzzZZZZZZZZZzzZZZzZZZZzZZZZZZZZZzZZZZZZ

This thread is about small egos and forums wars...did you read the OP...or are you just on auto-pi..ZZZZzzzzZZZZzzzZZZz....

If you don't like his posts, report them...No need to pollute the thread with garbage like the above, and this:

"ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZ....

(get it now?) "

and this:

"You are in the wrong thread...you need to be here:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2287709


ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzZZZZZzzzZ ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzZZZZZz zzZZZZ
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ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzZZZZZzzzZ ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzZZZZZz zzZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzZZZZZzzzZ ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzZZZZZz zzZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzZZZZZzzzZ ZZZ..... "

This is not the first thread to go OT (and so is undeserving of any special attention)...and by the same logic you are using against him, you are offending just as badly (if not worse) than he is.

 

[Lonbjerg]

I came here because what Lavaheadache pointed out is clear contradiction that appopin made. He said he was first fine with micro-stutter and now he isn't. Also, I commented on how that thread at ABT is a waste of time by pointing out specific post that highlights how they chose to ignore stuttering on NV cards.

Keep diverting my point without reading my posts and how they relate to that thread's member's comments. I guess you never noticed stuttering with your GTX580 either, right? :whiste:

4 year old quote.
This is not this thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2287709

Go into thatthread...and let this freak die...like I sai...ZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzz

We've had enough of you. You're banished until next year.
-ViRGE

 

[Lonbjerg]

If you don't like his posts, report them...No need to pollute the thread with garbage like the above, and this:

"ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZ....

(get it now?) "

and this:

"You are in the wrong thread...you need to be here:

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2287709


ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzZZZZZzzzZ ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzZZZZZz zzZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzZZZZZzzzZ ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzZZZZZz zzZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzZZZZZzzzZ ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzZZZZZz zzZZZZ
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[thilanliyan]

ZZ

Great contribution...why are you posting here if you want it to die?

 

[Zanovar]

wtf is all the zzs?

 

[thilanliyan]

Jedi mind trick maybe?

 

[tviceman]

Outside of a handful of guys like SickBeast, tviceman and BoFox, the vast majority of ABT members

Aside from two posters there (which you may or may not have named haha) it's actual kind of nice to have a normal conversation from time to time without it quickly derailing into a massive one-up flame fest. I know the number of active posters isn't high, but keeping a thread like steam's hardware survey somewhat civil (aside from the two big offenders you may or may not have mentioned ) and sticky'd for discussing trends just isn't at all possible over here. It would devolve into massive sniping, trolling, and flaming here. It doesn't matter if threads are creates neutral, pro nvidia, or pro and here, it almost always ends bad.

 

[Zanovar]

nm

Maybe,i feel peculiar

 

[WelshBloke]

wtf is all the zzs?

No idea but I just reported him.

 

[thilanliyan]

Maybe,i feel peculiar

Lol, I edited my quote, put "nm" and now restored it to what I had originally.

 

[NIGELG]

A sensible post from an ABT poster,except the part about providing Evidence of AMD shills on ATF.

''Nsavop Post subject: Re: AMD's role in Stealth Viral Marketing - nV SM policy change!
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:40 pm

Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:05 am
Posts: 285

This whole back and forth with VC&G is getting beyond ridiculous. Apoppin you've provided a lot of evidence that AMD uses viral marketing in tech forums so I'll give you that and have no problem believing it. But what you don't know is names of said marketers, so when you start accusing members of VC&G that have opposing views as yours as viral marketers you lose credibility, especially since your the owner/editor of ABT and really shouldn't care what's being said on other forums other then your own.

IMHO ABT needs to move on and focus more on tech and less on VC&G (myself included), recently it seems like every other post has been quoting or responding to something said on a different forum creating nothing but drama.

I say this because I like the time I've been a member here and would like to see this forum grow into something better. I think you did a great job exposing AMD's viral marketing but pointing fingers at members of other forums and calling them shills with no proof does nobody any good.''

 

[lavaheadache]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ....

(get it now?)

the only thing I get is that you are thread crapping

 

[SickBeast]

Only people that post in that forum are nVidia fans so I don't like visiting their forum anymore since it's literally them talking each other up and saying how awesome nVidia is and how bad AMD is. It's not *JUST* that they are nVidia fans, it's because they attack the Anandtech VG&C forums every chance they get and that's unacceptable because they have no proof of misconduct.

On top of that ever disgruntled nVidia fan who gets banned on this forum is living on ABT forums.....lol

Are you calling me an nVidia fan?

 

[RussianSensation]

and sticky'd for discussing trends just isn't at all possible over here. It would devolve into massive sniping, trolling, and flaming here. It doesn't matter if threads are creates neutral, pro nvidia, or pro and here, it almost always ends bad.

I think it is possible if people didn't post misleading information and framed it to suit their point of view. [i.e., framing a 17% decline in market share in mobile dGPU as if it's the same as a 2% decline in market share for desktop dGPUs in the same time period.]

If people stopped using Steam hardware survey and used actual data sourced by research firms, no one would have a problem with that:

1) Graphics add-in board shipments seasonally up from last quarter
2) Jon Peddie Research reports Nvidia led Q3 with 20% quarter-to-quarter growth—AMD and Intel dropped

The problem occurs when someone states something controversial like "GTX680 is selling more than the entire HD7000 series" and yet they have no data to back up this claim.

November 2012 data from Steam had a ton of examples that tell us little about retail/OEM market share gains. HD5770 shows a +0.20% increase in November, while HD4650 shows a +0.52% from last month (!), while GTX260 shares the same 0.09% increase of GTX670. Do you believe that represents new retail sales of those GPUs accurately? Where can I buy HD4650 or HD5770 or GTX260 still and in those volumes in retail?

With research firms providing market share data every quarter or so, it's just not necessary to use Steam Survey. If you wanted to look at market trends, wouldn't you want reputable data by professionals in that industry whose job it is to track that data? Wouldn't you refer to the Economist, Wall Street Journal for proper business news or would you browse a GPU forum for it? Steam by itself constantly shows data that makes no sense in the context of the overall GPU sales, like the 3 examples I sighted. I think you remember how Steam vastly underrepresented the market sales of GTX400 Fermi cards. With professional companies covering the industry, we don't need to guess, when it's a matter of time before Jon Peddie's or someone else's info will show us what's going on

You know I've enjoyed a lot of your posts over the years (especially your insights into NV's timeframe for next gen GPU launches and performance expectations, as you are usually very realistic and spot on regarding the balance of power consumption and performance for next gen NV cards), as well as you sharing your performance data in with your highly overclockable MSI PE in GTX670 threads, etc. These things help bring gamers with the same hardware closer to discuss their experiences and is good for the forum. There are a lot of people who prefer NV like yourself but they don't rattle the forum with constant bashing like some the characters I didn't mention.

I think the main aversion on our forum against Steam Hardware survey is that it's just never been proven to be accurate and it actually doesn't tell us what's happening to market share without a reference point, which happens to be professional research data to begin with from last quarter. Maybe you can read it better than I can. I don't feel like guessing when outliers like HD5770/GTX260/HD4650 are showing those cards are "selling well" right now. I'd rather wait for actual professional data.

Are you calling me an nVidia fan?

That's the problem with the image of that forum. People might not know you or your post history but because they can read many biased ABT threads bashing AMD/or our sub-forum, they could automatically assume you are among them because you are posting on that forum. We know you aren't NV biased, but someone new joining this forum might not. It's no different than people accusing AT VC&G being a AMD-paid shill forum.

 

[BoFox]

I've always thought of Apoppin with high regards and don't see that changing anytime soon. However, I'm not sure what to make of what is developing. Anyhow, at the very least maybe my post will bring his sight some traffic.

http://alienbabeltech.com/abt/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26747&start=70

The juicy stuff starts on post 78.


What do you guys think?

This is what the message I was trying to convey.

Consistency in personal view. I found it odd that his view had changed. When he first made the statement to me 3 years ago I was kind of shocked that a enthusiast of his caliber dismissed microstutter as being a trade off for high frame rates even though microstutter negated the effect of said high frame rate. Now that microstutter and frame latency is all the rage I noticed his position had changed. I also noticed about his recent rants about Amd. I put 2 and 2 together and brought it to his attention.

I don't know why it turned into this bash session. It really is quite sad

No, No, No...

Apoppin used "Franken-fire" 4870's (4870X2 plus HD 4870). He already stated that the third GPU mainly served to minimize microstuttering when it did not necessarily increase frame rates in some games.

Also, it could have been a subjective statement from 4 years ago. He was a rookie reviewer back then, being new to Crossfire and all. Not much research was done on microstuttering back then, and I do not expect him to have already been all brains about microstuttering. When I first discussed it with him, he humbly acted like as if he still needed to research it more.

Another reason why it could have been subjective is because his first impression could have been that microstuttering was just something blown out of proportion by a frenzied lunatic who was just being extremely picky.

Yet another reason for sujectivity:
First impression was with games that already ran at 120fps for instance. Even severe microstuttering would make it "feel" like 70-80fps (just over half the rate, if the frame count scaled almost 100%). Therein lies the issue with so many people claiming to never "notice" microstuttering. 70-80fps is still well over the 60Hz refresh rate, and still pretty much feels like 120fps.
--The game would need to be running at around 40-50fps or less in order for microstuttering to be really obvious. Half of that would be like 25fps, which is what microstuttering makes it FEEL like (or LOOK like, or APPEAR as). The difference between 25 fps and 45 fps is rather evident for 90+% of GPU enthusiasts out there with an average IQ of above 100.

/thread