Lonbjerg
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
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Do you promise to not make more FUD threads in cross-site wars....it's worse than what you accuse Appoin of...and it dosn't belong here....pm him next time.
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Do you promise to not make more FUD threads in cross-site wars....it's worse than what you accuse Appoin of...and it dosn't belong here....pm him next time.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
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Outside of a handful of guys like SickBeast, tviceman and BoFox, the vast majority of ABT members are bitter members that got kicked out from everywhere else for spreading vile NV-propaganda and contributing little to technical discussions outside of trolling/posting for the sole purpose of instigating other members (BallaTheFeared). It's like AMD Zone, except a collection of NV fanboys. I don't know Appopin's story but he constantly accuses me of being a viral marketer and yet through history of our posts we shared interest in games and hardware in the PM and then he just became a coward and started accusing me of things I was never even involved in. He sounds like he lost track of who he was about a year after starting ABT, compared to who he was when he first joined AnandTech. Now he is surrounded by a hive of NV fanboys over there, his objective reasoning went straight out of the window and he can't just go back to being his normal objective self because it would alienate the only readership base he has - NV fanboys. Not once has that guy ever had the courage to PM me but publicly accuses many forum members here of being AMD-paid shills/employees. His credibility is nil at this point. The original idea for his website was good but since then his sole focus has been on bringing down AMD viral marketing, rather than investing into his tech website. This is why his website has gone nowhere in years and still looks like it was made in the 90s. It's been years and ABT hasn't moved an inch in terms of delivering a credible tech resource experience. Instead, he is too busy wasting his time mingling with sad NV trolls, rather than building a website to compete with the likes of TechSpot, AnandTech, TechReport or Xbitlabs. Appopin lost track of what ABT was supposed to be about. And now he is too deeply integrated with his "NV fanboy" crew to see how he wasted all this time on meaningless drivel on his forums instead of actually hiring talented people to write articles for his site, improving the layout and delivering great content, all in the process of expanding ABT's readership. It's no wonder guys like BFG10K jumped ship. No one can work with a fanboy who isn't focused on a proper goal.
I stopped reading that thread after this post by grstanford (a well known NV troll/fanboy who got kicked out from AT).
"I've very rarely seen any microstutter. It has always been more of an ATI problem than a nvidia one."
TechReport's testing, that ABT uses to 'promote' micro-stutter of AMD/ATI cards, is the one who has been exposing micro-stutter on NV/AMD cards for years, including still higher micro-stutter on GTX690 than single GPUs, including HD7970. That immediately contradicts all the posts made by nearly every single one of those NV fanboys. If you start arguing that NV's SLI has less micro-stutter than single GPUs at the same fps count, you have basically lost all credibility.
- If they rarely noticed micro-stutter on NV cards, and many of them use NV in SLI, and by extension since HD7970 has less micro-stutter than GTX690, they are just spreading more usual ABT non-sense.
TechReport
Also, as I already linked earlier, TechReport's own HD7970 Ghz edition review showed no such micro-stutter issues. The insinuations that ATI/AMD always had micro-stutter are just opinions without any credible evidence. This is not unexpected from the blind fanboys with tunnel vision on sites like AMD Zone or ABT.
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NIGELG
Senior member
- Nov 4, 2009
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Lonbjerg
Diamond Member
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Lonbjerg
Diamond Member
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Apoppin talks about AMD shills then quotes me lol.
I've owned 6 nvidia cards and 2 AMD cards in my nerd career...
I've owned 6 nvidia cards and 2 AMD cards in my nerd career...
Grooveriding
Diamond Member
- Dec 25, 2008
- 9,147
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Ignore the troll.
This is what happens when illogical fanboyism or irrational thinking processes are confronted with logical thoughts backed by history and examples. It resorts to nonsense/trolling. Reminds me of Ballathenut after being put in his place and him going off in a froth at the mouth racial epithet laced rant.
Just ignore it. Forum is rife with troll posts from nvidia die hards butt hurt over AMD having a small edge in benchmarks.
This is what happens when illogical fanboyism or irrational thinking processes are confronted with logical thoughts backed by history and examples. It resorts to nonsense/trolling. Reminds me of Ballathenut after being put in his place and him going off in a froth at the mouth racial epithet laced rant.
Just ignore it. Forum is rife with troll posts from nvidia die hards butt hurt over AMD having a small edge in benchmarks.
SirPauly
Diamond Member
- Apr 28, 2009
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If posters could get by personal aspects, would be appreciated. Consistency is important with posters though and desire to share a personal view four years back about smoothness:
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1168949&postcount=160
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1168949&postcount=160
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
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Hey Groove, what are you going to do when AMD stops buying you NV GPUs for dissecting them and testing their driver issues if Intel and NV merge and subsequently bankrupt AMD? You'll be jobless! This is comedy gold.
Check out the credibility of ABT's journalism on the HD7970 pre-launch article:
AMD’s Upcoming HD 7970 Exposed – a Short-lived Video card?
"Most telling is that its performance is not that great except in DX11 games and especially in heavily tessellated scenarios – only about 25% faster than a GTX 580 overall."
http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=27982
It's just too bad the author of that article didn't scream how GTX680 was also underwhelming from NV and later on how GTX680 actually went to lose the single GPU performance crown.
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...-7970-3gb-matrix-platinum-edition-review.html
I guess facts don't count at ABT or a highly disappointing videocard generation only applies to 1 camp and the other is forgiven because "they purposely delayed a 7 billion transistor chip" (despite making their corporate clients wait until November 2012 to start shipping those easy to manufacture K20/Xs).
I don't think anyone personally accused you of anything in this thread. If you glance at ABT posts, apparently AMD/ATI cards stuttered for a decade now and TR is the first site to expose this. I guess it's convenient to ignore all the previous TR testing where NV cards had worse stuttering?
I don't recall NV fanboys at ABT saying how GTX570 was a stutter-fest for BF3 or that GTX670/680 stuttered more than HD7900 in BF3. Again, using the same website that did HD7950 vs. 660Ti testing.
Remember all those threads on AnandTech every week from AMD users about how NV's GTX570/670 cards stutter in modern games....Ya, there were none because most of us realize all cards exhibit some form of stutter in the real world and NV is not immune to this depending on the game you are playing. Since it's not possible to include 100 games in a review, the choice of games yo u have in a review can change the conclusion if you only focus on the stuttering and not FPS. You can pick 10 games where NV would stutter the most. Although based on the forums, apparently NV users could live with that BF3 stutter or GTX570 users with MP3 stutter, since they didn't say a word all this time. Maybe the micro-stutter captured on a high speed camera at 120/240 fps is actually unnoticeable in the real world by 99% of gamers? Maybe this is a current driver issue that simply needs to be resolved and it is good that TR investigated this? When people start going on a tangent that AMD cards stuttered for years, their credibility/objectivity is somewhat undermined, wouldn't you say? Just a thought.
If NV users never noticed the stuttering in BF3, they sure gained some amazing eye sight that all of a sudden that they noticed stuttering on AMD cards all the time, in fact for a decade now.
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Grooveriding
Diamond Member
- Dec 25, 2008
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Wife and I already have the home up for sale. No idea what to do now, JHH says my position is forfeit going forward.
I think ABT has a redeeming purpose. It's a good place to centralize the nvidia zealots who take their preference as a religion and keep them out of other forums. In that respect it seems to have some merit.
I think ABT has a redeeming purpose. It's a good place to centralize the nvidia zealots who take their preference as a religion and keep them out of other forums. In that respect it seems to have some merit.
Lava, I don't know where you've been lol. You're a level headed guy and I respect your opinion, and can I add that I'm also jealous of your video card collection; but man, no good is going to come out this.
NIGELG
Senior member
- Nov 4, 2009
- 852
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Why don't you tell Apooppin that too when you're over there?
There could be peace if he didn't call people stupid and get personal.
Thanks.
My intent wasn't to start this kind of bashing going on.
It became apparent right away that people couldn't handle the topic in a mature way.
I have agreed with others about locking the thread
Zanovar
Diamond Member
- Jan 21, 2011
- 3,446
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I stopped reading that thread after this post by grstanford (a well known NV troll/fanboy who got kicked out from AT).
"I've very rarely seen any microstutter. It has always been more of an ATI problem than a nvidia one."
TechReport's testing, that ABT uses to 'promote' micro-stutter of AMD/ATI cards, is the one who has been exposing micro-stutter on NV/AMD cards for years, including still higher micro-stutter on GTX690 than single GPUs, including HD7970. That immediately contradicts all the posts made by nearly every single one of those NV fanboys. If you start arguing that NV's SLI has less micro-stutter than single GPUs at the same fps count, you have basically lost all credibility.
- If they rarely noticed micro-stutter on NV cards, and many of them use NV in SLI, and by extension since HD7970 has less micro-stutter than GTX690, they are just spreading more usual ABT non-sense.
TechReport
Also, as I already linked earlier, TechReport's own HD7970 Ghz edition review showed no such micro-stutter issues. The insinuations that ATI/AMD always had micro-stutter are just opinions without any credible evidence. This is not unexpected from the blind fanboys with tunnel vision on sites like AMD Zone or ABT.
You know that Nvidias framemetering (software pre-Kepler, and apperently hardware-assisted since Kepler) cannot be measured by fraps, right? That was mentioned in another techreport article by Nvidias Scott Petersen with a nifty diagram. "inside the second" I believe it was called. So those graphs don't necessarily represent what is perceived by the user in the end. You can hardly find user reports or reviews mentioning Crossfire being smoother than SLI. The other way around, however, I have seen that being mentioned quite often in comparison.
AMD doesn't have any kind of frame metering, I suppose - otherwise they would have advertised it by now. Nvidia on the other hand have, at least since Fermi, if not earlier.
I believe the assessment that ATI/AMD always had more problems with microstutter is correct, but only when looking at multi-GPU.
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What? The first reply to this thread was to dismiss your OP.. not because we cant handle it, there's really NO ISSUE to discuss TBH. Ppl's preferences change all the time.
Also, ABT tests a LOT of games i still value it to look for a broader view, really. I have no reason to think they deliberately sabotage benches to make AMD look bad.
This is what the message I was trying to convey.
Consistency in personal view. I found it odd that his view had changed. When he first made the statement to me 3 years ago I was kind of shocked that a enthusiast of his caliber dismissed microstutter as being a trade off for high frame rates even though microstutter negated the effect of said high frame rate. Now that microstutter and frame latency is all the rage I noticed his position had changed. I also noticed about his recent rants about Amd. I put 2 and 2 together and brought it to his attention.
I don't know why it turned into this bash session. It really is quite sad
If you go back to the first thread on TR's FIRST article on frame time, i specifically said its a load of hogwash because of this EXACT point. It's a sick joke that in the initial review, even the reviewer claims the 6870 was "smoother" in gameplay despite worse fraps frame time. Yet ppl all jumped onboard and think its the next coming of bench standards. No, its utter bullshat. Do it with a fast camera and run it at full speed in a HQ video or don't do it at all.
One good thing from this, its going to make AMD more aware of these issues and for them to stop relying on users to get 3rd party tools to fix CF MS.
Imagine if it was dead season in video cards, with no rumours, no developments, no recently release products.
I wonder if that would also result in a pretty dead forum.
SirPauly
Diamond Member
- Apr 28, 2009
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Remember all those threads on AnandTech every week from AMD users about how NV cards stutter in modern games....
I certainly recall the views of stuttering with early Kepler drivers and very welcomed --- based on this awareness -- nVidia investigated and improved their products.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
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I never disagreed with Tom's Hardware, HardOCPs or TechReport's findings that SLI felt smoother than CF. I think we kinda knew that a while back which is why you can see why so many here recommended GTX670/680 for SLI but HD7950/7970 for single GPUs with mods/MSAA/high res screens.
The point I am making is that NV cards had stutter, even single GPUs, if you see my post above. Insinuating that it was an AMD/ATI wide issue that went unnoticed for years is simply not telling the truth.
Ya, but it applies not just to GTX680, but GTX500 series too. That's my point. NV cards also stutter and it has little to do with "Kepler" drivers. According to the same methodology, GTX500 cards were stuttering like crazy in Batman and BF3 compared to HD7850/7870 or even HD6870.
Like I said you can pick 10 games that stutter less on NV or AMD, or it could just happen accidentally where 5 out of 7 games stutter more on 1 brand than the other. That's how games always worked, which is why you buy the GPU for the games you want to play. It's not "AMD cards stutter more". You can't just base that off 7 games and only from testing 2 GPUs (7950 / 660Ti). If you check TR's 7970Ghz review, 680 stuttered more there. So what is it? AMD cards stutter more or less? The answer is it depends entirely the games you are playing. What would you rather play Crysis 1 with frames going from 50-60 fps or Crysis 1 at a constant 30 fps? Would you sacrifice a bit of screen tearing/smoothness for faster frames in a FPS or would you rather play locked in at console frame rates? It depends on each gamer but it's not inconceivable that you'd have more micro-stutter at 240 fps camera in a GPU that fluctuates between 50-60 fps in Crysis 1. Would you then conclude playing at 30 fps in a shooter is more enjoyable than at near 60 fps with occasional drops to high 40s-low 50s?
None of this still explains the frames per second results for MOH:W or Skyrim at 2560x1440 w/ AA, which is a separate outlier with the review.
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Lonbjerg
Diamond Member
- Dec 6, 2009
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I never disagreed with Tom's Hardware, HardOCPs or TechReport's findings that SLI felt smoother than CF. I think we kinda knew that a while back which is why you can see why so many here recommended GTX670/680 for SLI but HD7950/7970 for single GPUs with mods/MSAA/high res screens.
The point I am making is that NV cards had stutter, even single GPUs, if you see my post above. Insinuating that it was an AMD/ATI wide issue that went unnoticed for years is simply not telling the truth.
Ya, but it applies not just to GTX680, but GTX500 series too. That's my point. NV cards also stutter and it has little to do with "Kepler" drivers. According to the same methodology, GTX500 cards were stuttering like crazy in Batman and BF3 compared to HD7850/7870 or even HD6870.
Like I said you can pick 10 games that stutter less on NV or AMD, or it could just happen accidentally where 5 out of 7 games stutter more on 1 brand than the other. That's how games always worked, which is why you buy the GPU for the games you want to play. It's not "AMD cards stutter more". You can't just base that off 7 games and only from testing 2 GPUs (7950 / 660Ti). If you check TR's 7970Ghz review, 680 stuttered more there. So what is it? AMD cards stutter more or less? The answer is it depends entirely the games you are playing.
None of this still explains the frames per second results for MOH:W or Skyrim at 2560x1440 w/ AA, which is a separate outlier with the review.
You are in the wrong thread...you need to be here:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2287709
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You did get that I'm only talking about multi-gpu?
You compared single-GPU (7970) with multi-GPU (590 and 690) and insinuated that apopping or whoever it is you quoted there should have noticed microstuttering on the 590 too, according to the graphs you posted. And that is wrong, because those graphs don't tell the whole truth in mGPU.
Framemetering is - afaik - for AFR only. When I'm talking about framemetering, I'm referring to mGPU.
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