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Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

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tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
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641
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I'd much rather have the 7900X than the 7920X. If I'm going to go core crazy, then I'd just save up for the 7980XE, but even that chip is going to be a PITA to keep cool at high frequencies.

7900X is my favorite of the SKX lineup.
I seriously need a new job....
With this inflation of prices, even with multiple salary bumps a year everything feels expensive.
 
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Mar 10, 2006
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I seriously need a new job....
With this inflation of prices, even with multiple salary bumps a year everything feels expensive.
To be fair, perf/$ keeps going up a lot. The amount of value you can get for like $300 is awesome, and should get way better shortly w/ CFL.
 

StefanR5R

Elite Member
Dec 10, 2016
4,076
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Even if RAM is connected to CPU, loading data from storage still needs to go through the chipset. How else can it reach RAM.

[...] IINM, copying data between storage devices is direct, so DMI would play no role here.

Besides loading data from storage to RAM (which I suppose even 4 GB/s is sort of enough, even for NVMe), what other scenarios are there where DMI's bandwidth might come into play?
Copying between storage devices still takes buffers for the data payload located in system memory, i.e. in RAM behind the CPU's memory controller. This is true for NVMe, AHCI, UASP, classic USB storage, and other storage interfaces.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
17,248
6,250
136
I don't know that Z370 is a money grab. Intel may just not have z390 ready. They had to do some serious pivoting to even get Coffeelake out as it was, what with the 10nm delays and other . . . problems.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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I don't know that Z370 is a money grab. Intel may just not have z390 ready. They had to do some serious pivoting to even get Coffeelake out as it was, what with the 10nm delays and other . . . problems.
Z370 is definitely being done because Z390 is not ready, planned for Q1 2018. Z370 is a stopgap to allow Intel to launch CFL earlier than it could've otherwise.

Intel's PCH teams tend to be 2nd tier compared to the microprocessor teams.
 
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Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
21,379
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Z370 is definitely being done because Z390 is not ready, planned for Q1 2018. Z370 is a stopgap to allow Intel to launch CFL earlier than it could've otherwise.

Intel's PCH teams tend to be 2nd tier compared to the microprocessor teams.
And they are launching earlier than planned because of Ryzen/TR ?
 
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Excessi0n

Member
Jul 25, 2014
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Yes, but what about an OCed hexacore? Do you know for certain that the current socket has enough power pins to feed that?
Is there any evidence that Coffee Lake's socket is different in some way to the socket used for the 6th and 7th gen chips? I was under the impression that everything pointed to it being the same old LGA-1151.
 
Mar 10, 2006
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And they are launching earlier than planned because of Ryzen/TR ?
Seems to be a response to Ryzen (Ryzen 5/7). Right now AMD is selling 6C/12T CPUs for the same price as Intel's 4C/4T CPUs, and AMD's proving to be a good value proposition for a lot of people.

CFL should help Intel here.
 

crashtech

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2013
9,745
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Is there any evidence that Coffee Lake's socket is different in some way to the socket used for the 6th and 7th gen chips? I was under the impression that everything pointed to it being the same old LGA-1151.
Is there any evidence that they've left it the same? There are reserved pins on every socket for contingencies like this.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,479
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Intel's PCH teams tend to be 2nd tier compared to the microprocessor teams.
That's not entirely fair.

Chipsets have multiple blocks and often analog ones which make it more difficult to design and scale down. Even in CPUs you can see its the I/O blocks like Memory and PCIe controllers that remain the hardest component to scale down in size. Those I/O blocks use the least dense part of the process, and 3-4 generations behind in size compared to logic transistors.

It almost sounds like saying CPUs only gain 5% per year while GPUs gain 30%. Yes, percentage-wise 30% is greater but for 3D 30% is not much either. The CPU also has to be faster in much more applications so in a way you can say 5% = 30%.
 

beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
4,788
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I also wonder if Ice Lake will bring PCIe 4.0, so even if the Z370 or Z390 boards support it, it might not be fully featured.
As far as I know PCIe 4.0 will be DOA. It's development was delayed and PCIe 5.0 spec was released only shortly later. Because of that PCIe 4.0 lifespan will be max 2 years till 5.0 arrives and hence we might not see any investments into it in PC space. Cheaper to wait and go 3.0 -> 5.0 directly which will then last probably just as long as version 3,0

24 Lanes of PCIe 4.0 would make for a terrific consumer processor, especially if DMI morphs to support a PCIe 4.0 phy as well. One can hope - though we know so little about Ice Lake :(
Having faster DMI speed would be good enough for me even if the rest remains PCIe 3.0. But the DMI limit is kind of a big drawback of the intel consumer platform. Ryzen is clearly better here because you get 4xadditional lanes from the CPU for ssd usage.
 
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Wyrm

Junior Member
Jun 20, 2017
23
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To be fair, perf/$ keeps going up a lot. The amount of value you can get for like $300 is awesome, and should get way better shortly w/ CFL.
I don't think Intel chips are overpriced. All data points to AMD chips being underpriced in order to break into the market and prove themselves. AMD desperately needs to start generating profit, so that they could reinvest it into the next gen tech. The design is risky, takes years of upfront investment and many engineering resources. I am fully expecting the next gen of TR and Ryzen to be priced higher, just like their initial Vega pricing was bumped up.
 
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beginner99

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2009
4,788
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I don't think Intel chips are overpriced. All data points to AMD chips being underpriced in order to break into the market and prove themselves.
All depends what you defined as over or underpriced. I will agree that AMD has lower margins than Intel but AMD can get away with lower margins due to a leaner corporate structure (and due to the WSA, eg. each chip they produce reduces cost of WSA). Add to that they need market share and a lower-margin high volume strategy is exactly right.

Still their margin will be a lot better than it was for the last decade. So it is still a win for AMD.
 

psolord

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2009
1,327
387
136
I don't know that Z370 is a money grab. Intel may just not have z390 ready. They had to do some serious pivoting to even get Coffeelake out as it was, what with the 10nm delays and other . . . problems.
Indeed, many....problems have...a-ry-zen for Intel lately! xD

I am aiming for the 8700k if prices are sensible, but it still gives me the giggles knowing that AMD kicked Intel in the nuts.

Someone must photoshop a Ryzen cpu on the stone that David hurled at Goliath! :p
 

Asterox

Senior member
May 15, 2012
525
764
136
I don't think Intel chips are overpriced. All data points to AMD chips being underpriced in order to break into the market and prove themselves. AMD desperately needs to start generating profit, so that they could reinvest it into the next gen tech. The design is risky, takes years of upfront investment and many engineering resources. I am fully expecting the next gen of TR and Ryzen to be priced higher, just like their initial Vega pricing was bumped up.
What,:D here we go again or "Speed Comedy Club for beginers=you failed absurdly".

How do you even compare, just one example i5 7600/4/4 220$ CPU vs R5 1600/6/12 CPU 215$?

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113435

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117729

Ryzen/Threadriper/Epyc SoC design is "very smart and innovative". But that is classic AMD, when they have smart leadership+Jim Keller, well the results are very obvious.:cool:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-threadripper-epyc-mcm-cost,35306.html



 
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