Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[Bouowmx]

I guess the "PCI Express lane problems" are mostly about running something like 2 Samsung 960 PRO attached to chipset and not being able to get full read speeds from the 2 at the same time.

 

[beginner99]

I guess the "PCI Express lane problems" are mostly about running something like 2 Samsung 960 PRO attached to chipset and not being able to get full read speeds from the 2 at the same time.

Exactly and Ryzen is better in that regard as you get 1 4x pcie for m-2 drives from the cpu and could attach the second one to m.2 from chipset. so less speed issue.

 

[dullard]

It shows basically what we should expect from Coffee Lake:

• Turbo clock will be about the same as Kaby Lake for the equivalent chip.

So, a very rough estimate would be to take any 4-core Skylake, add 2 more cores...

• Coffee Lake 8700K: 6 cores, base 3.7 GHz, turbo ?
• Coffee Lake 8700: 6 cores, base 3.2 GHz, turbo ?
• Coffee Lake 8600K: 6 cores, base 3.6 GHz, turbo ?
• Coffee Lake 8400: 6 cores, base 2.8 GHz, turbo ?

It's very rough dullard....Wait for the release. You'll never accurately guess what they will release. And that's for everyone.

Doesn't seem like I was off (except the 8400 Turbo was higher than I expected. Either yields are up or Coffee Lake will down-throttle more to base clocks than Kaby Lake did). That assumes that Sweepr's numbers are correct:
https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...s-out-page-554.2428363/page-554#post-39005848
https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...s-out-page-554.2428363/page-554#post-39005851

 

[dullard]

Looks like Core i5-8400 and Core i5-8600K are the initial models. I'm impressed by Intel's aggressive approach with the new base model, especially if prices remain the same (Core i5-7400 has a $182 MSRP). Now come on, I want some predictions first.

Were my predictions close enough?

wccftech has possible prices which seem right where I would expect them, but Intel can change prices at the last minute: http://wccftech.com/intel-coffee-lake-core-i7-8700k-core-i5-8600k-6-core-cpu-leak/

Core i7-8700K to cost around $349
The Intel Core i5-8600K ... and we can expect a price range of around $249 US
The Intel Core i5-8400 ... pricing can be less than $200

If true, then Intel will be following their decades-long tradition of pricing new chips in the old chip's same price level (give or take a dozen dollars).

I hope they come out with an 8600 and not just an 8400 as the base model. But, Intel never really sold many 7600 chips (Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc never carried the 7600). Heck, I can't even find a 7600 on Amazon. So, I can see Intel just dropping it. The x600 chips were just the best value for non-overclockers (only 2.5% less speed than the x600K chips for 8% lower price and you got a far lower TDP to boot).

 

[jpiniero]

Kinda get the feeling that the price will be higher but only slightly. Like $10 more. This is really going to wreck Kaby-X and the 7800X, but I guess that's part of the game when you bring something in like this.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Kinda get the feeling that the price will be higher but only slightly. Like $10 more. This is really going to wreck Kaby-X and the 7800X, but I guess that's part of the game when you bring something in like this.

We only need two things leaked now; pricing and chipset compatibility.

 

[jpiniero]

I don't think it's been mentioned here, but Purley (unlike Broadwell-EP) apparently only supports 2DPC. So you can only get the same 12 ram slots max per CPU. And also unless I am reading it wrong, you have to buy the M model now to get 1.5 TB/socket compared to all of Broadwell-EP E5/E7.

 

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

Lanes for your M.2 come from the chipset, not the CPU so I'm not sure what you're on about? Please do the research first before saying something randomly. Ah I only just now see you end with how Ryzen is better, so that's your aim. Well, thanks for your thoughts and enjoy being a glorified bug and beta tester for AMD

Those lanes coming from the PCH is exactly the problem. Attaching your m.2 via PCH is a waste of money because the PCH bottlenecks the m.2 performance. Latency is most of the problem. Save your money and get an 850 evo instead.

True, 8 PCI-e lanes won't bottleneck your GPU performance now for gaming. I honestly don't know how things look with compute. But I usually want my system to last 6-8 years with a GPU upgrade along the way. PCI-e 3.0 is kind of ageing already, cutting the bandwidth in half does not seem like a good idea in the long run.

If I wanted to buy Ryzen I would have done so already and I wouldn't be here complaining about upcoming Intel products. Also: Going OT by fuelling an Intel vs AMD discussion with pointless polemic is not my style. With the developments of storage technology over the past 3(!) years, 20 PCI-e lanes has become mandatory if you want a high end storage solution. It is totally reasonable to expect this on a 350$ priced high-end product. In this context it makes sense to point out that the competition is even doing it on it's cheapest 110$ value product of the new line.

 

[VirtualLarry]

20 PCI-e lanes has become mandatory if you want a high end storage solution. It is totally reasonable to expect this on a 350$ priced high-end product. In this context it makes sense to point out that the competition is even doing it on it's cheapest 110$ value product of the new line.

If I were Intel, and not lazy / stupid / driven by marketing, I would put x20 PCI-E lanes on the CPU... but if you wanted to have backwards-compatibility with the older socket 1151 chipsets, that slightly complicates matters.

I would be even more disillusioned with Intel, if CFL-S DOES require a new chipset, and STILL doesn't have an extra x4 PCI-E set of lanes for a more-or-less dedicated M.2 / Optane slot. They DO want to push Optane, don't they?

 

[PeterScott]

Those lanes coming from the PCH is exactly the problem. Attaching your m.2 via PCH is a waste of money because the PCH bottlenecks the m.2 performance. Latency is most of the problem. Save your money and get an 850 evo instead.

True, 8 PCI-e lanes won't bottleneck your GPU performance now for gaming. I honestly don't know how things look with compute. But I usually want my system to last 6-8 years with a GPU upgrade along the way. PCI-e 3.0 is kind of ageing already, cutting the bandwidth in half does not seem like a good idea in the long run.

If I wanted to buy Ryzen I would have done so already and I wouldn't be here complaining about upcoming Intel products. Also: Going OT by fuelling an Intel vs AMD discussion with pointless polemic is not my style. With the developments of storage technology over the past 3(!) years, 20 PCI-e lanes has become mandatory if you want a high end storage solution. It is totally reasonable to expect this on a 350$ priced high-end product. In this context it makes sense to point out that the competition is even doing it on it's cheapest 110$ value product of the new line.

Are there some benchmarks to demonstrate how the PCH is bottlenecking a good M.2 drive?

 

[Edrick]

Are there some benchmarks to demonstrate how the PCH is bottlenecking a good M.2 drive?

Yes, earlier in this thread by me.

 

[Edrick]

I guess the "PCI Express lane problems" are mostly about running something like 2 Samsung 960 PRO attached to chipset and not being able to get full read speeds from the 2 at the same time.

Yes, and there are solutions to that problem. That is why I run one of my 960 Pro's from CPU lanes.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

Those lanes coming from the PCH is exactly the problem. Attaching your m.2 via PCH is a waste of money because the PCH bottlenecks the m.2 performance. Latency is most of the problem. Save your money and get an 850 evo instead.

True, 8 PCI-e lanes won't bottleneck your GPU performance now for gaming. I honestly don't know how things look with compute. But I usually want my system to last 6-8 years with a GPU upgrade along the way. PCI-e 3.0 is kind of ageing already, cutting the bandwidth in half does not seem like a good idea in the long run.

If I wanted to buy Ryzen I would have done so already and I wouldn't be here complaining about upcoming Intel products. Also: Going OT by fuelling an Intel vs AMD discussion with pointless polemic is not my style. With the developments of storage technology over the past 3(!) years, 20 PCI-e lanes has become mandatory if you want a high end storage solution. It is totally reasonable to expect this on a 350$ priced high-end product. In this context it makes sense to point out that the competition is even doing it on it's cheapest 110$ value product of the new line.

Looks like in the heat of recent arguments I read you wrong so my apologies mate.

 

[BigDaveX]

Intel should not shove aside the 1151 owners. KL is only a few months old and what upgrade will there be beyond 7700k? Sad if Intel doesn't provide any 6 core sku's for SL/KL users. Quite a few SB persons has already moved to AM4 and others are still happy with what they have. But there still are quite a few waiting for the full scene to be revealed. My wife's 2500k new upgrade for example.

Unless Intel already planned to have 6 core Sku's on the current mobo's, the pin out may not work out even if a similar socket. With AMD now kicking it, they would be better off with CL compatibility with 170/270 chipsets even if only selling a chip instead of chip and chipset like they're used to plucking from people in the past.

Considering how many leaks there've been for Coffee Lake itself, I'd think that there'd also have been leaks for a new chipset if Intel intended to launch one. I'd guess that it just needs a BIOS update to be compatible with existing motherboards, but we'll likely have the same situation as with the original Phenom, in that owners of motherboards whose manufacturers aren't putting any effort into supporting them anymore will be SOL.

 

[wildhorse2k]

Well, thanks for your thoughts and enjoy being a glorified bug and beta tester for AMD

I don't like being beta tester either and definitely don't want a buggy product. The new Threadripper is going to have same problems like Ryzen as it will be the same revision so for me the clear choice is Skylake-X. Coffee lake is going to have too few cores and it will be the top CPU available. I will rather get the 7900X or even 7980XE (if it surprises me positively). The amount of problems Skylake-X has and Ryzen has/had is uncomparable.

 

[psolord]

Quick question.

I use a Noctua D14 on my 2500k. Afaik LGA1155 and LGA1151 have the same mounting holes. So the D14 will be able to be used on a 8700k, correct?

 

[SpaceBeer]

I don't like being beta tester either and definitely don't want a buggy product. The new Threadripper is going to have same problems like Ryzen as it will be the same revision so for me the clear choice is Skylake-X. Coffee lake is going to have too few cores and it will be the top CPU available. I will rather get the 7900X or even 7980XE (if it surprises me positively). The amount of problems Skylake-X has and Ryzen has/had is uncomparable.

What are the actual problems with Threadripper (X399)? I haven't heard of any

 

[Timmah!]

What are the actual problems with Threadripper (X399)? I haven't heard of any

You cant unlock it to have full 32 cores :-D

 

[scannall]

What are the actual problems with Threadripper (X399)? I haven't heard of any

It should be fine out of the gate. The Ryzen launch should have cleared up most of the bios issues by now.

 

[RichUK]

So when is the CFL release date?

 

[TheF34RChannel]

So when is the CFL release date?

Still unknown. Before 1 January 2018 though Joking aside, I'm equally eager to find out. It's still looking like October will hold up.

 

[Jan Olšan]

That i5-8400 has massively higher turbo boost (4.0 single core) compared to i5-7400.
Kind of makes me think the prices will be higher for the whole line, compared to Kaby Lake. After all, Intel doesn't really want to make KBL unsellable and be forced to discounts.

 

[jpiniero]

That i5-8400 has massively higher turbo boost (4.0 single core) compared to i5-7400.
Kind of makes me think the prices will be higher for the whole line, compared to Kaby Lake. After all, Intel doesn't really want to make KBL unsellable and be forced to discounts.

Well, assuming Coffee is 300 series only presumably OEMs won't touch Coffee for the most part until January and the rest of the chipset lineup is available. That would give Intel plenty of time to draw down stock.

 

[beginner99]

Quick question.

I use a Noctua D14 on my 2500k. Afaik LGA1155 and LGA1151 have the same mounting holes. So the D14 will be able to be used on a 8700k, correct?

As far as I know yes, but I would not worry anyway. Noctua usually releases new brackets if need like for AM4 (i ow a d14 too).

 

[SPBHM]

That i5-8400 has massively higher turbo boost (4.0 single core) compared to i5-7400.
Kind of makes me think the prices will be higher for the whole line, compared to Kaby Lake. After all, Intel doesn't really want to make KBL unsellable and be forced to discounts.

they kept prices somewhat stable for years without any good competition, now that AMD is offering interesting CPUs around 200-300 USD is not the time for that.
previous gen Intel normally keeps the price and it dies pretty fast,